Schiit Yggdrasil - Best DAC available!?

[Feanor]

... Even weirder, with the Jitterbug in line with the DAC, my computer will not see the DAC unless it is hooked up through the Wyrd (I don't have a Regen) Take the Jitterbug out and the computer sees it just fine. So..... The Jitterbug is out of the direct line. I still get some positive benefit with the Jitterbug in the unused USB port...

 

Yes, with a Jitterbug in-line my computer doesn't recognize the SMSL DAC I use in my headphone setup. I haven't tried the Jitterbug yet with my Wyrd > Bifrost main setup.

[Wfojas]

To burn in the ygg and my usb cable, Can I leave and ygg output unhooked and playing music from computer into it through my usb cable?

 

Yes, ygg needs to be running to get the thermal conditions stable, though I would think some run through would help. There is the burn in part (say 40 hrs?) and there is the warm up part, which can take days. Its all worth it though. You can have the output hooked up, and not have your preamp or amp running, as well.

[baddog]

Yes, you can play music to it through the USB cable with the Yggi on, and the output unplugged, or you can keep it plugged into your pre amp/amp and leave the pre amp/amp off.

[miguelito]

To burn in the ygg and my usb cable, Can I leave and ygg output unhooked and playing music from computer into it through my usb cable?

 

Yes

[Melkior]

Dear all,

 

10 days ago I received in France the Yggdrasil Dac. I ordered it without knowing how it sounds, just because I found the idea to use the AD5791 very innovative. I come from a PCM 1704K based Dac (Ayon CD 5 - 4 x 1704K chips).

My system :

Speakers : GamuT L7

Source : Mac Book Pro with Audirvana, Pure Music and Dirac Room Correction

USB converter : Berkeley Alpha USB

DAC : Ayon CD5 and Yggdrasil

Préamps : Classé Audio DR6, Jeff Rowland Consumate

Amps : Cary CAD 211 AE mono blocs, Krell KSA 80 and Esoteric A03

Integrated for "quick listening" : Pathos Ethos

 

I have been listening the Ayon CD5 as a Dac for 5 years now, it has been the center of my system. First I used it also as a preamp but ground noise problems led me to use a separated solid state preamp.

 

Shipment of the Yggdrasil was perfect, 4 days to cross the ocean, 3 weeks in France for duties reasons, nothing surprising :-) Of course as soon as the Dac arrived at home I couldn't resist to plug it and have a listen, which I did. When I plugged it, the Pathos Ethos was in place as a preamp (I like the 6922 tube preamp part of this integrated) in association with the Krell KSA 80 as power amp. So I removed the Ayon CD5 and set up the Yggdrasil, very easy. I put a song in Audirvana and went to the kitchen to take a coffee to let the Dac warming slowly.

And really when I heard the first music notes I came back and sat in the sofa. I was really surprised with what I heard, I bought this Dac by curiosity as it's not so expensive and intended to put it in a second system, while keeping the Ayon CD5 on my main system. But the Yggdrasil was immediately and clearly better than the PCM 1704K !

I played more and more song with always the same feeling, this Dac is really a great Dac.

I was about to post my feelings, but I'm used to the "new gear effect" so I kept calm and waited for 10 days for the Dac to set up to confirm my initial opinion. The Dac needed around 5-6 days to sound as its best (10 hours a day playing, switching it off at night and on in the morning). After this time the little stress in the sound has gone : out of the box the sound was not crappy at all, just a little stressed but all the qualities were already there.

What can I say about this Dac in comparison with the Ayon CD5 ? Well, first the Ayon is a quite well optimized Dac around the 1704K chip, so it's already a very good Dac. But the Yggdrasil goes much deeper in the resolution, the small details, and above all in the resonances of instruments that you can hear even when other instruments go on playing at the same time, this give an impressive sense of spacial localisation of each source and recording room dimensions.

As the Krell KSA 80 is not so analytical, I decided to put the Esoteric A03 instead, which is a real beast in terms of resolution and punch (better with its 2x50W class A than the 2x80w class A of the Krell). And believe me or not I stayed a few minutes without moving so much I was impressed by the cristal clear and holographic presentation. There was a long time I didn't felt so emotionally touched. Ok big part of the job was done by the Esoteric, but this amp just throw to the speakers what it receives from the Dac and preamp, so if the input signal is crappy it sends a crappy sound, this mean that the Yggdrasill has the full potential to work with a very high end system.

Well a few days later I tried the Cary CAD 211 AE (845 push pull monoblocks, 2x 70W class A) instead of the Esoteric, because these monoblocs are not as detailed as solid state ones, but clearly much more musical (well Class A power amps are more musical than class AB ones, but not as much as 845 tubes). Again, I stayed muted for a few minutes, I did not recognize the Carys so much the level of details was brought to a new level, even in the low frequencies which are usually not the strong point of triodes.

 

So the Ayon is on a shelf now, the half price Yggdrasil has took its place in the system. Within a few days I'll put the ayon back in service, just to see what missing in the music to confirm the exceptionnal qualities of the Shiit Dac. I noticed so many times that to get a clear and unbiased opinion, it was critical to come back to the previous system to confirm the first feeling of a new gear.

 

So, Congratulations to Shiit to have release such a good Dac for a price far below its performances in comparison with some other Dacs. I still love the sound of the PCM 1704K, but the AD5791 is a stunning chip and the job to make it work so well deserve a "Bravo".

 

The Yggdrasil is very analytical but without losing musicality, believe me the Esoteric A03 is already very analytical, so you could expect that in association with the Shiit the system sound clinical and dry, but definitely not, this is the very good surprise for me. I thought that too much details lead to a fatiguing listening, so a kind of compromise had to be found between resolution and musicality, but now I changed my mind :-)

 

The Yggdrasil has a very wide soundstage, full of details, each instrument has life like tone with it own harmonics (cymbals and guitar chords are incredible!) and each one has its well defined place in the sound field.

 

What I could says as negative ? Well nothing for the price..!

Any wish ? Yessss !! 6922 tubes output would make miracles on this Dac; voices are really nice but a little more flesh&Blood would be perfect (on this point of view my opinion is biased by the comparison with 845 push pull amp sound, so it's not a negative point)

[DuckToller]

Melkior, great review. Mercii beaucoup!!!

[Melkior]

Melkior, great review. Mercii beaucoup!!!

 

Côôl de voir un français :-)

[mourip]

And really when I heard the first music notes I came back and sat in the sofa. I was really surprised with what I heard, I bought this Dac by curiosity as it's not so expensive and intended to put it in a second system, while keeping the Ayon CD5 on my main system. But the Yggdrasil was immediately and clearly better than the PCM 1704K !

 

+1

 

I bought the Yggy for my headphone setup mainly because I wanted to see what the buzz was about, especially because it seemed like it might have a more natural and non-fatiguing sound than the Saber DACs I had owned before and still give a lot of detail.

 

With only minutes on it I could tell it was different. Now I am burning it in while figuring out the best way to control the volume remotely in my main system where it will probably unseat my Auralic Vega.

 

Nice review Melkior...

[DuckToller]

+1

[Feanor]

Dear all,

...

The Yggdrasil is very analytical but without losing musicality, believe me the Esoteric A03 is already very analytical, so you could expect that in association with the Shiit the system sound clinical and dry, but definitely not, this is the very good surprise for me. I thought that too much details lead to a fatiguing listening, so a kind of compromise had to be found between resolution and musicality, but now I changed my mind :-)

...

 

Great review, Melkior.

 

I can't speak for the Yggdrasil, but I can say that the Bifrost Multibit shares, (probably to a lessor extent), the characteristics of the Ygg. Versus the Bifrost Uber and other sub-$1k DACs I've had in my system the Bifrost Multibit, ("Bimby"), is the distinctly the best at revealing the information on the disc or computer file.

 

The Bimby is also very analytical, but like the other best equipment I've heard, it's terrific on the "best recordings" but unforgiving of those that are poor. (To be clear, by "best recordings" I'm referring my recordings that have always tended to sound superior regardless of the equipment on which they are played.)

 

So there is a trade-off one person might make and another person not: choose your equipment to favor the best recordings OR to make less that great recordings tolerable. The Bimby and, I guess, the Ygg certainly fall into the former category.

[Melkior]

So there is a trade-off one person might make and another person not: choose your equipment to favor the best recordings OR to make less that great recordings tolerable. The Bimby and, I guess, the Ygg certainly fall into the former category.

 

Totally agree :-)

[ChrisG]

Melkior - Yggy sounds even better if you keep it powered up 24/7 like they instruct to do in the owner's manual.

 

While the initial warm-up period for best musical results is around 7 days (no need to play music through it, just keep it powered on), this warm-up time is shortened to 3-4 days thereafter. When you power it down at night, Yggy needs 3-4 days to get back to its sweet spot. Try keeping it powered up and see if you notice a difference.

 

BTW, are you using Yggy's USB or the Berkeley Alpha USB?

[Melkior]

Hello Chris,

 

I agree, it's better to let the Dac powered 24/7, as the Dac chip and clock are stable in frequency and temperature, but in the burn in process the power supply electrolytic caps need some cycles of charge / discharge to perform at their best, so I believe (maybe I'm wrong) that switching on and off (without abusing) accelerate the process. Basically after 10 day the Dac did not seem to improve anymore, so from this moment I let it powered all the time as recommended.

 

I use the Berkeley Alpha USB, its connected through USB to the MacBook Pro, and through AES/EBU to the Yggdrasil. Then the Dac is connected through XLR to the Classé Audio DR6 préamp. I haven't yet tested the USB input of the Yggdrasil, I guess it should sound great. I also tested the Coax input (between Berkeley and Yggdrasil) it's as good as AES for me.

[Yoga]

Anyone used the PUC2 with the Yggy?

[Feanor]

Melkior - Yggy sounds even better if you keep it powered up 24/7 like they instruct to do in the owner's manual.

 

While the initial warm-up period for best musical results is around 7 days (no need to play music through it, just keep it powered on), this warm-up time is shortened to 3-4 days thereafter. When you power it down at night, Yggy needs 3-4 days to get back to its sweet spot. Try keeping it powered up and see if you notice a difference.

 

BTW, are you using Yggy's USB or the Berkeley Alpha USB?

 

Good advice I'd say. I leave all my equipment on 24/7 except my computer and my Pass Labs amp because it sucks 200 watts at idle. I do leave the Pass in standby mode which is only 30 watts, as I recall. My Pass on standby, ARC preamp, "Bimby', Wyrd, and various transformers might draw 100 watts total: worth it I'm reasonably sure.

[crazychile]

Schiit says to leave all of their DACs on 24/7 if possible.

[Melkior]

Ok :-) I let the Shiit switched on 24/7, anyway the preamp Classé Audio DR6 is also always on (it has no on/off switch).

[Blake]

Congrats to the folks at Schiit. By pretty much all accounts, the Yggy is a sonic success.

 

I am curious about the degree of improvement over other good DAC's in the market. It is hard to tell from the reviews.

 

Is the sonic improvement over good existing DAC's revolutionary, or evolutionary?

 

In other words, are we talking:

 

A) "I could easily detect the difference and it was a nice little uptick in sonics" (a sonic improvement akin to adding a better power supply, plus inserting a Regen, etc.)? or,

 

B) "I was blown away... I can't believe the shocking degree of improvement over my old DAC" (a sonic improvement similar to what one would expect from moving up a level or two in a given manufacturer's amplifier or speaker line)?

[Feanor]

Congrats to the folks at Schiit. By pretty much all accounts, the Yggy is a sonic success.

 

I am curious about the degree of improvement over other good DAC's in the market. It is hard to tell from the reviews.

 

Is the sonic improvement over good existing DAC's revolutionary, or evolutionary?

 

In other words, are we talking:

 

A) "I could easily detect the difference and it was a nice little uptick in sonics" (a sonic improvement akin to adding a better power supply, plus inserting a Regen, etc.)? or,

 

B) "I was blown away... I can't believe the shocking degree of improvement over my old DAC" (a sonic improvement similar to what one would expect from moving up a level or two in a given manufacturer's amplifier or speaker line)?

 

I can only speak to my Bifrost Uber to Multibit upgrade ... it was 'B'.

[Melkior]

B Also.

 

The difference was typically as you said :

 

{Ayon CD5 + Krell KSA 80} to {Yggdrasil + Krell KSA 80} was more or less the same improvement as {Ayon CD5 + Krell KSA 80} to {Ayon CD + Esoteric A03}. The quality of improvement is different, but in terms of gap before/after it's more or less the same.

[crazychile]

Congrats to the folks at Schiit. By pretty much all accounts, the Yggy is a sonic success.

 

I am curious about the degree of improvement over other good DAC's in the market. It is hard to tell from the reviews.

 

Is the sonic improvement over good existing DAC's revolutionary, or evolutionary?

 

In other words, are we talking:

 

A) "I could easily detect the difference and it was a nice little uptick in sonics" (a sonic improvement akin to adding a better power supply, plus inserting a Regen, etc.)? or,

 

B) "I was blown away... I can't believe the shocking degree of improvement over my old DAC" (a sonic improvement similar to what one would expect from moving up a level or two in a given manufacturer's amplifier or speaker line)?[/quote

 

 

I haven't heard the Yggdrasil yet, but the majority of the comments I've read on other forums seems to indicate it is "B". The few people that own it and sell it tend to be people that are used to using DACs that cost significantly more. I've been very impressed by the Schiit DACs I've owned in general. First the Modi, then the Bifrost Uber, then I had the Bifrost upgraded to the Multi-bit version. Each was a very significant jump in performance. My next upgrade will probably be the Gungnir Multibit, the Yggy is a little to rich for my blood right now. These DAC upgrades have made more significant improvements in my system than upgrading amplifiers.

[Blake]

The reason I asked my question above in Post #218 is that I have traditionally found differences between DAC's to sometimes (but not always) be somewhat more subtle.

 

I note that in Innerfidelity's "Big Sound 2015" multi-part article, some of the testers performed blind testing to see if any of the testers could distinguish the Yggy from the Antelope Audio Zodiac Platinum DAC (which costs $5,500). Tyll himself and famed audio mastering engineer Bob Katz both failed the test. Another tester eventually passed the test by a small margin after a repeated blind tests.

 

I think this can be viewed as a nice win for the Yggy (given the Zodiac costs over twice as much as the Yggy), as well as perhaps commentary on the issues with conducting a blind test. One would think that these very experienced testers under controlled circumstances would be able to notice different sonic signatures between the Yggy and the Zodiac under blind testing, but apparently that was not the case (at least for Bob Katz and Tyll).

 

Big Sound 2015 Pyrates Aboard! | InnerFidelity

 

Big Sound 2015: Biting the Bullet with Bob Katz | InnerFidelity

[Jud]

 

I note that in Innerfidelity's "Big Sound 2015" multi-part article, some of the testers performed blind testing to see if any of the testers could distinguish the Yggy from the Antelope Audio Zodiac Platinum DAC (which costs $5,500). Tyll himself and famed audio mastering engineer Bob Katz both failed the test. Another tester eventually passed the test by a small margin after a repeated blind tests.

 

I think this can be viewed as a nice win for the Yggy (given the Zodiac costs over twice as much as the Yggy), as well as perhaps commentary on the issues with conducting a blind test. One would think that these very experienced testers under controlled circumstances would be able to notice different sonic signatures between the Yggy and the Zodiac under blind testing, but apparently that was not the case (at least for Bob Katz and Tyll).

 

Big Sound 2015 Pyrates Aboard! | InnerFidelity

 

Big Sound 2015: Biting the Bullet with Bob Katz | InnerFidelity

 

I would be very careful about coming to any conclusions on the basis of such tests.

[Yoga]

There's a lot of BS when it comes to comparing equipment. Some do have genuine golden ears. Many though just experience expectation bias or unconsciously follow a technological narrative. The only test worth doing is a blind test. If you see it being plugged in or chosen, comparisons are automatically voided.

 

Your brain is quite literally that powerful.

 

In fact you can think of your brain like a DAC. Input - processing - output (experience/perception). The processing is subjective and influenced by expectation, biases, emotion, diet and a multitude of other psychological factors.

[Jud]

There's a lot of BS when it comes to comparing equipment. Some do have genuine golden ears. Many though just experience expectation bias or unconsciously follow a technological narrative. The only test worth doing is a blind test. If you see it being plugged in or chosen, comparisons are automatically voided.

 

Your brain is quite literally that powerful.

 

In fact you can think of your brain like a DAC. Input - processing - output (experience/perception). The processing is subjective and influenced by expectation, biases, emotion, diet and a multitude of other psychological factors.

 

If I may ask (and it is a friendly question, because I am curious about the answer), where did you develop the opinions you express above? Reading (where?), conducting your own comparisons....?

 

Edit: My internal editor just spoke and said "You know, this is really off topic." True. So don't answer my question (unless you already have while I write this). I'll consider whether to open another thread on this.