Schiit Yggdrasil - Best DAC available!?

[wino]

FWIW the Audio GD Master 7 uses 8 pces of PCM1704UK and sells for $2200.

That La Scala is really talking to me but unfortunately out of my price range.

I keep wondering about the diminishing returns thing and how much I would need to spend to get in the same ball park.

 

I think you answered your own question, haha…

 

Some owners of M7 I've talked to, further tweaked it to get it to really sing...

 

The La Scala is another supposedly more upscale rendition...

 

The 55K Trinity DAC also uses these chips, albeit goes through thousands to make them 'Super Ks'.. Many say that is the best DAC in the world, if there is such a thing..

 

David

[wino]

After 2-3 k there is no doubt diminishing returns .

 

Minimal imo… when you're talking 10-20K difference… agreed, haha !

 

David

[wino]

Actually diminishing returns probably start a lot earlier than that. These days you can have fairly decent sounding DACs for a few hundred dollars. From there to 2-3k range is a rather lefty price gap. But it also depends on your personal value. If you appreciate the extra stuff that the latter provides, for you it's worth the extra cost. For others, it might not be. Same is true from 2-3k to 5k, 5k to 10k, 10k to 25k etc.

 

In other words, how one values the return is subjective. And it isn't fixed either. As you listen more, you value might well change. So I think it's quite impossible to asset where the point of diminishing return really is. Whatever number being thrown around is always justifiable in the mind of the asserter, but others might not agree. But the flip side is, whereever you think it is, it's correct for you (for now at least). You can take comfort in that

 

VERY well said !!

[wino]

To some extent those returns depend on how resolving the rest of your system is. No point buying a $3000 DAC if all that information goes down the distortion hole of your cheap tube amp and 1970s speakers.

 

Agreed ! Interestingly that's exactly what many do/have done over on that 'other' forum where they listen through 'cans', haha...

 

OTOH… most aren't so monied that they purchase an 'end' system from scratch, all at once… most (at any price level) buy piece by piece.. upgrading as they go...

 

David

[Emcee]

I think you answered your own question, haha…

 

Some owners of M7 I've talked to, further tweaked it to get it to really sing...

 

The La Scala is another supposedly more upscale rendition...

 

The 55K Trinity DAC also uses these chips, albeit goes through thousands to make them 'Super Ks'.. Many say that is the best DAC in the world, if there is such a thing..

 

David

 

I think the difference besides price and implied performance is mostly subjective.

 

In other words one emotionally pushes all the right buttons while the other talks to you in a more pragmatic way.

 

Prestige and pride of ownership is probably a bigger factor than most of us are willing to admit.

 

I have never heard any Audio GD products so I can't comment on their SQ, QC or reputation of VFM.

 

I did check out some pics on their website and noticed a few technicians assembling Master 7s wearing winter coats and scarves.

 

I imagine the La Scala being assembled somewhere on the Amalfi coast by espresso sipping aristocrats sporting Armani lab coats and Dolce Gabbana glasses. Probably discussing whether they should hire Pinifarina or Bertone to design the case.

[ChrisG]

You mean you have to leave it playing for 22 days straight to have it sound ideal? This is beyond break in. This is Perma-on…Sustained audio.

 

Wino seems to be in the minority with this...most of us found Yggy finds its "sea legs" after about a week of audio played through it. And, no, I'm not listening to it with "cans".

[AnotherSpin]

I have never heard any Audio GD

Grateful Dead (GD) is an experience of its own. Do not block yourself from diggin into it with all honesty. You will not be sorry.

[wino]

Try to get Telefunken ECC801S - much more expensive but better in the same proportion. I have a pair of such for many years, they are awesome.

 

Thanks !

 

I will find some !

[madaboutaudio]

Grateful Dead (GD) is an experience of its own. Do not block yourself from diggin into it with all honesty. You will not be sorry.

 

Could you kindly elabortate more about this. I would like to know what's wrong with the brand?

[Bear]

So I see the first used "Yggy" for sale on Audiogon. Will be interesting to see how many of these will show up in the secondary market over the next few months. Not necessarily an indication of how people like it but still.......

[JakovH]

So I see the first used "Yggy" for sale on Audiogon. Will be interesting to see how many of these will show up in the secondary market over the next few months. Not necessarily an indication of how people like it but still.......

 

You will find it is Wino's unit (2 posts up)

[Ipoci]

...

 

I did check out some pics on their website and noticed a few technicians assembling Master 7s wearing winter coats and scarves.

 

I imagine the La Scala being assembled somewhere on the Amalfi coast by espresso sipping aristocrats sporting Armani lab coats and Dolce Gabbana glasses. Probably discussing whether they should hire Pinifarina or Bertone to design the case.

 

My compliments for your sensitivity, I noticed me as well.

 

Very sad to see the pictures. The average audiophile will probably mark the working on low temperatures as a good rule to reduce oscillators noise ... but it's not for me.

 

Have a nice day, Massimiliano - ITALY -

[PT7]

what's the best dac to play music in natural way, like un-amplified live acoustic instruments

Are we up there or still there is a long way to improve ?.

which is better R2R DACs high end dac vs delta sigma high end dac ?

[wino]

what's the best dac to play music in natural way, like un-amplified live acoustic instruments

Are we up there or still there is a long way to improve ?.

which is better R2R DACs high end dac vs delta sigma high end dac ?

 

Supposedly TotalDAC, Lampizator, Trinity (super expensive), Aqua… & for sure MSB..

 

One could say R2R is better based on your somewhat open-ended question, however I'll assume it also relates to the 1st question...

 

Surprisingly… it's not just the DAC 'chip' (some R2Rs are really modules built w/ resistors), it's also the design & of course the implementation..

 

David

[PT7]

Supposedly TotalDAC, Lampizator, Trinity (super expensive), Aqua… & for sure MSB..

 

One could say R2R is better based on your somewhat open-ended question, however I'll assume it also relates to the 1st question...

 

Surprisingly… it's not just the DAC 'chip' (some R2Rs are really modules built w/ resistors), it's also the design & of course the implementation..

 

David

 

I wasn't impress by the presentasion of yggy at the show. many said it's very detail yes I agree but it didn't draw me to the music , souless sound .

the lampi 7 was so good , I really like it .

[ilok]

Also check out Metrum.

[kLevkoff]

I think the difference besides price and implied performance is mostly subjective.

 

In other words one emotionally pushes all the right buttons while the other talks to you in a more pragmatic way.

 

Prestige and pride of ownership is probably a bigger factor than most of us are willing to admit.

 

I have never heard any Audio GD products so I can't comment on their SQ, QC or reputation of VFM.

 

I did check out some pics on their website and noticed a few technicians assembling Master 7s wearing winter coats and scarves.

 

I imagine the La Scala being assembled somewhere on the Amalfi coast by espresso sipping aristocrats sporting Armani lab coats and Dolce Gabbana glasses. Probably discussing whether they should hire Pinifarina or Bertone to design the case.

 

I think you're right - but "prestige" and "pride of ownership" also mean very different things to different people.

 

To one person, being able to afford and own a $20K DAC gets them all excited; while another may be much more excited to own one that performs just as well, and cost half as much - because he "discovered" it; and yet another is proud that he "doesn't spend a lot of money on frills".

 

Is a heated steering wheel a luxury or a practical feature?

 

I guess the answer depends on how cold your hands get without one.

[Emcee]

I think you're right - but "prestige" and "pride of ownership" also mean very different things to different people.

 

To one person, being able to afford and own a $20K DAC gets them all excited; while another may be much more excited to own one that performs just as well, and cost half as much - because he "discovered" it; and yet another is proud that he "doesn't spend a lot of money on frills".

 

Is a heated steering wheel a luxury or a practical feature?

 

I guess the answer depends on how cold your hands get without one.

 

I was proud to have cleaned and rebuilt my aging BBQ instead of spending on a new one. I would also be proud to own a La Scala DAC. I like the way it's built and the fact that it was designed and made in Europe.

 

Chi-fi is a dime a dozen - it's all over the place. It's a question of philosophy I suppose. Just like I generally prefer Japanese knives over German ones. A $40 Victorinox Forschner is common but it's a pretty good knife. However I know my $160 Masamoto is better.

 

If someone were to show up at my house with an inexpensive Chinese DAC and have it equal or outperform my expensive EuroDAC I would be upset. In the end exclusivity and craftsmanship is nice as long as the performance matches.

[bhobba]

what's the best dac to play music in natural way, like un-amplified live acoustic instruments

 

Now that's an interesting question.

 

I know two very experienced audiophiles who regularly attend live practice sessions of an orchestra to attune their ears to what real live music sounds like. You get them together and they argue about what's real and what's not. One loves the Direct Stream - the detail it reveals blows him away - he hears more stuff. The other like me loves a DAC that's the exact opposite - called a Killer - its very real and organic with drop dead harmonic texture - but a detail revealer like the DS it isn't.

 

Bottom line here is a Hi Fi system is an attempt to trick the brain into thinking - this is real- even though you know it isn't. We all have different triggers for that.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

I wasn't impress by the presentasion of yggy at the show. many said it's very detail yes I agree but it didn't draw me to the music , souless sound . the lampi 7 was so good , I really like it .

 

Does anyone know where I can get a hold of a Yggdrasil here in Australia?

 

I would love to compare it to my cadre of DAC's. In the past I have purchased DAC's to do just that - but after a while it simply puts too big a hole in your finances.

 

Regarding the Lampi I have been trying for ages to get a hold of one to compare to my beloved Killer - but despite hints to the maker and distributor have had no luck. I may have to directly send a note to the distributor here in Australia.

 

Thanks

Bill

[toddrhodes]

While I should upgrade my amp next, I really want to try a different DAC. It's between a Lampi Amber and a Yggi. The far-reaching claims of how well Yggi does Redbook is why I'm leaning toward the "tree." Lampi uses a Sabre for PCM which I'm not sold on. If I had more DSD (I don't, maybe 2% of my collection is DSD and it's not even stuff I love), the Lampi would probably take it...

[bhobba]

Lampi uses a Sabre for PCM which I'm not sold on. If I had more DSD (I don't, maybe 2% of my collection is DSD and it's not even stuff I love), the Lampi would probably take it...

 

DAC's like the Lampi use a valve output stage and are designed to produce a real organic kind of sound, but not necessarily with the same level of overt detail of other DAC's. DAC's like the Yggi are designed to do the opposite - extract the last ounce and detail from what its fed - but for some they are sterile and uninvolving. There are other DAC's that take a middle course such as the Direct Stream. Before forking out your hard earned dosh you need to hear DAC's of each type. IMHO that's the reason you see a number of highly touted DAC's up for sale soon after they are purchased - people get caught up in the hype and don't understand of much greater importance than the buzz is the kind of sound it produces. Another factor with some higher priced DAC's like the Direct Stream is its software controlled. There are new software versions released all the time with each version being a significant step up. When I first heard the DS me and a number of very experienced audiophiles thought - what's the fuss? I had heard a number of DAC's I thought were better. But with each software update it simply got better and better and now, with the latest Yale update, is one of the best DAC's I know with some now preferring it to my favourite DAC the Killer that is the ultimate organic kind of DAC. With the DS you are also buying a continuously evolving DAC that simply gets better and better. For that reason alone I may eventually get one myself.

 

Thanks

Bill

[toddrhodes]

Hi Bill, excellent points. I live a little bit in no-man's land when it comes to auditioning gear so I unfortunately have to take a leap every now and again. Your reasoning behind the Yggy is why I want to try it, ahead of a Lampi. It may be a poor judgement but I feel like I want the DAC to reveal whatever the recording has to offer - and nothing more. I also understand the Yggy to be *excellent* for Redbook which is what 80% of my collection is, like most people I think. If I want to shape the sound, I can do so with a preamp or even the amp itself. I really don't want something so far up the chain adding its own character but that's just my philosophy.

 

Sadly, I heard a dCS Vivaldi in Omaha and it's almost ruined me for my expectations of digital sound. Just unbelievable stuff but then, for the price of a new Porsche Cayman, it damn well better be

[Jimmypowder]

It's the best dac ive never heard.

[bmoura]

I wasn't impress by the presentasion of yggy at the show. many said it's very detail yes I agree but it didn't draw me to the music , souless sound .

 

The Lampi 7 was so good , I really like it .

 

Which Lampizator did you hear - the Big 7 or the Lite 7 ?

Both were being demonstrated at The Show Newport.

 

In terms of comparing the two Lampis to the Yggy, my listening impressions were similar to yours.

Both Lampizators top the Yggy to my ears by a very wide margin.