jtwrace Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I feel fairly confident that some non-linear-regulator-based voltage step-down is done here - it's inevitable as the USB ports are powered and require 5V, not 16V. Having said this, SMPS as a whole get too much of a bad rap... Some SMPS are very carefully designed and produce very clean power - not for cheap though. It is quite possible that this is done very cleanly in this design since it is so clearly purpose built. As an example, consider the Linn Linto phono stage: it uses a SMPS! A phono stage of all things!!! Anathema... Yet... That is correct. SMPS done right is very good. My amps for example... W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
Jimmypowder Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I feel fairly confident that some non-linear-regulator-based voltage step-down is done here - it's inevitable as the USB ports are powered and require 5V, not 16V. Having said this, SMPS as a whole get too much of a bad rap... Some SMPS are very carefully designed and produce very clean power - not for cheap though. It is quite possible that this is done very cleanly in this design since it is so clearly purpose built. As an example, consider the Linn Linto phono stage: it uses a SMPS! A phono stage of all things!!! Anathema... Yet... Ode To Miggy ____________ Oh Miggy , Oh Miggy , where art thou ? 2.1 hath arrived and we await your royal blessing ! Vocal sibilance ? Air? Weight? We knoweth your knowledge is vast . Please bestow on us your edict and we will obey . Link to comment
jtwrace Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ode To Miggy ____________ Oh Miggy , Oh Miggy , where art thou ? 2.1 hath arrived and we await your royal blessing ! Vocal sibilance ? Air? Weight? We knoweth your knowledge is vast . Please bestow on us your edict and we will obey . I think you forgot one thing.... W10 NUC i7 (Gen 10) > Roon (Audiolense FIR) > Motu UltraLite mk5 > (4) Hypex NCore NC502MP > JBL M2 Master Reference +4 subs Watch my Podcast https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXMw_bZWBMtRWNJQfTJ38kA/videos Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ode To Miggy ____________ Oh Miggy , Oh Miggy , where art thou ? 2.1 hath arrived and we await your royal blessing ! Vocal sibilance ? Air? Weight? We knoweth your knowledge is vast . Please bestow on us your edict and we will obey . Oh Jimmy sweetie son of a gun... I thought you didn't care! Been very busy with work and life... I will express an opinion soon. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Superdad Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I don't see linear regulators there (the generally look like output transistors and usually need heatsinks. Also if I am not mistaken most digital chips would use 5V rails (XMOS USB chip for example). The 16V input seems to be chosen to be regulated down to 12V and 5V and I seem to recall that doing that with a linear regulator (5V in particular) generates a lot of heat. Actually Miguel, both switching DC-DC regulators and LDO linears can come in the same size package. Heat generated is all a function of current draw. At least 4 voltages are needed in the Aries. Certainly 3.3V, 1V, and 5V. The pics that Norman posted are not clear enough to tell if those are LDOs or not. But I found a high enough resolution shot elsewhere of the LE board, and the TI 54328 they use are DC switching regulators. But you need to understand that that is not really a terrible thing. Such devices are NOT like at all like a big AC>DC switching supply and can be very effective. The folks at Auralic are very sharp and I would advise against trying to critique their circuit choices unless you have the expertise. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 But you need to understand that that is not really a terrible thing. Such devices are NOT like at all like a big AC>DC switching supply and can be very effective. The folks at Auralic are very sharp and I would advise against trying to critique their circuit choices unless you have the expertise. I completely agree. As I said previously, it is uninformed to criticize something we don't understand or know about (I'm speaking for myself). As I gave the Linto example: details matter. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
wisnon Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I completely agree. As I said previously, it is uninformed to criticize something we don't understand or know about (I'm speaking for myself). As I gave the Linto example: details matter. All true guys, BUT, we do know the device is built to a price-point and it operates entirely in the digital domain Which is VERY susceptible to HF pollution. We also know the rap against switchers for throwing back crud into the mains power lines. We also know there are filters and regulation techniques to isolate this stuff. However, in an all LDO setup, we know we avoid such potential problems. I guess the only resulting thing left to do without further info is to rely on SQ feedback. So far the device has a good SQ rep, and it will be left up to the modders to take it to the next level if possible...along with the firmware programmers, of course. Link to comment
wdw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh Jimmy sweetie son of a gun... I thought you didn't care! Been very busy with work and life... I will express an opinion soon. Miguelito, Time to spill the beans...! Cheers, wdw Link to comment
Jimmypowder Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Oh Miggy ,where art thou with your pronouncement on the firmware update ?.I beseech thee to give your almighty judgement . Link to comment
wisnon Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You guys are horrible! LoL Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Guys, I'm flattered you care! Anyway... I had a small issue over the weekend which prevented me from doing a thorough listen. Plus lots of work and travel which means it will be a while until I get to give you my (humble) opinion on this... NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
wdw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Guys, I'm flattered you care! Anyway... I had a small issue over the weekend which prevented me from doing a thorough listen. Plus lots of work and travel which means it will be a while until I get to give you my (humble) opinion on this... Just curious as to the Uptone LPS Link to comment
Distinctive Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 We are waiting in suspense...... Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Just curious as to the Uptone LPS Same applies... Just got the JS-2 on Saturday, will take a while to give you my impression. Just FYI, installing the MMK board in the mini is very simple, you just need to be careful. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
miguelito Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 We are waiting in suspense...... Go listen to some music, will ya? NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Distinctive Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Go listed to some music, will ya? All the time.......All the time....... Link to comment
keeper Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm waiting for the results, this could be the benchmark. For me now its very detailed, but to forward and bright, its hard to listen to for any length of time. I was very happy before the upgrade now i'm not sure i can live with this sound..... I feel it also forces you to listen an lower volume levels... Setup: Lumin D2> Roksan Blak> Focal 806 Link to comment
Jimmypowder Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm waiting for the results, this could be the benchmark.For me now its very detailed, but to forward and bright, its hard to listen to for any length of time. I was very happy before the upgrade now i'm not sure i can live with this sound..... I feel it also forces you to listen an lower volume levels... I found none of this though I am using a warm sounding amp and dac Resolution is superb .a huge upgrade for me Link to comment
keeper Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Mine is warm sounding amp which is why its confusing, Mac Mini plumbed back in directly to my Dac so I can have a good compare..... Do you think the output volume has increased??? Setup: Lumin D2> Roksan Blak> Focal 806 Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 For me now its very detailed, but to forward and bright, its hard to listen to for any length of time. I was very happy before the upgrade now i'm not sure i can live with this sound..... You may actually be better hearing your USB cable. Are you still using the WW Ultraviolet? The Aries does a better job of getting out of the way than your Mac mini. You should consider trying other USB cables now that you have the Aries. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
khollister Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 For what it might be worth ... I replaced an unmodded Mac Mini (2011 i7 variety with 2 internal SSD's, 16GB RAM) with A+ 2.0 and Amarra 3 with the Aries Deluxe. I had the Mini connected via USB to my Emotive XMC-1. The Aries did not sound very impressive connected via USB with the same cable - soundstage was closed in, recessed, somewhat dull, less air but much cleaner. I changed to S/PDIF via a Black Cat Veloce cable I use back on the tube headphone rig with Rega DAC. Whoa! - huge difference. Blows the Mini out of the water now. A lot more air, sense of space, huge soundstage and far less grain (the latter was also obvious with USB). With the coax connection, the sound exploded into the room rather than feeling like I was listening to it through a hole in the wall. I'm not sure, of course, whether the issue is the USB input of the XMC, the implementation in the Aries or (more likely) some non-synergistic combo of the two. I realize you want/need USB because of the DSD capability of your DAC, Miguelito, but if you haven't, try S/PDIF. The USB input on my Rega DAC is crap, so no joy trying it there. The other Mini I use there is connected via a HiFace Evo USB-S/PDIF converter. Unfortunately, I suspect a second Aries is in my future to replace the Mini in that system :-( As we say on head-fi.org, "Welcome to head-fi, sorry about your wallet" Rig 1: CM9s2, CM8s2, CMC, VTF-15H, Emotiva XMC-1, XPA-5, Aries Deluxe via S/PDIF Rig 2: Sennheiser HD650, Woo WA-2, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Sony HAP-Z1ES Link to comment
khollister Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I should also add this is with the latest FW - I just got the unit and the dealer upgraded it before he shipped it. I will say that the overall "color" or tonal balance of the Aries is very similar to playing the same files with either the Mac Mini/Amarra or even transcoded thru the AppleTV 3. There are huge differences in air, clarity, soundstage, lack of grain, etc, but I wouldn't characterize the Aries as "bright" except for it sounds to have more extension in the top octave or so. The ATV is the duller, less bright sounding of the 3, but it also mangles the sound more due to everything being transcoded to 48k and I have it connected via HDMI only (it is primarily a movie box for me) so audio is also subjected to the jitter-prone HDMI protocol. Rig 1: CM9s2, CM8s2, CMC, VTF-15H, Emotiva XMC-1, XPA-5, Aries Deluxe via S/PDIF Rig 2: Sennheiser HD650, Woo WA-2, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Sony HAP-Z1ES Link to comment
tranz Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Using USB out, the Aries still benefited from a Berkeley Audio converter. But that is a bit silly since the converter costs more than the Aries. Link to comment
khollister Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Using USB out, the Aries still benefited from a Berkeley Audio converter. But that is a bit silly since the converter costs more than the Aries. Granted I haven't tried the mega-buck luxury stuff lately, but I have failed to be impressed with any direct USB connection regardless of what's on either end. My theory is that there are way more opportunities for things to go wrong sonically given the nature of the USB protocol vs S/PDIF or AES/EBU. Even the RME UCX pro audio interface I use on a Mac Pro for music production work sounds slightly different via firewire vs USB. I'll get more excited when/if I upgrade the Rega to something DSD friendly in the headphone rig. My XMC-1 does DSD via USB but it bypasses bass management and Dirac (for obvious reasons). Dirac is too much of game changer IMHO to forge for the DSD vs PCM thing in that system. I am going to experiment using XLD or Sonore to convert to PCM in the meantime just to keep my options open in the future by purchasing DSD instead of hires PCM. Rig 1: CM9s2, CM8s2, CMC, VTF-15H, Emotiva XMC-1, XPA-5, Aries Deluxe via S/PDIF Rig 2: Sennheiser HD650, Woo WA-2, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Sony HAP-Z1ES Link to comment
wdw Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Using USB out, the Aries still benefited from a Berkeley Audio converter. But that is a bit silly since the converter costs more than the Aries. Tranz, have you had the opportunity to make this comparison or reporting comments made on this thread....am curious as to the influence of Alpha USB... Link to comment
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