ARIES vs mini... Confused

[miguelito]

So I've had my ARIES for 2+ months. I've listened to it and have posted on the ARIES hardware thread some impressions - which seem to go against the general perception. So here's an honest question...

 

To narrow this down, this is what I'm comparing:

a- ARIES (fw 1.10, over wifi)

b- mini + Amarra 3.03

USB cable: Lightspeed USB split

DAC: EmmLabs XDS1v2 (mdat2)

 

And I am exclusively comparing PCM files (ripped CD's & HDTracks). I chose Amarra in this comparison because I find it to be better for PCM than A+2 (and possibly HQPlayer but I can't say the latter first hand).

 

Issue: I am finding the sound of 'a' to be thin and uninteresting, whereas the sound of 'b' is much more harmonically rich and involving. The difference is that between "gorgeous tune, stuck to the couch, I can't move, damn that voice" vs "sounds good - what else can I play?" type of music experience.

 

Yet I keep reading how enthralled everyone is with the AIRES so I start to think "how can this be"? All of the known mini "tweaks": RAM disk, linear PS, no internal fan, no HDs mounted, no extra unnecessary processes running, are there by default in the ARIES. So how can this be?

 

Thx.

 

Miguel

[keeper]

Maybe your mini just sounds better than the Aries accessing the same files?

I've not had time to do a full compare yet, i'll have a good listen during the christmas hols.

But from what i've heard i'd say the quality is about the same.

I just think the Aries can provide a non technical method to access streaming, local content and radio URLs from

a single family friendly interface.

Have you tried a SPDIF cable on the Aries rather than USB?

 

Cheers Phil

[jtwrace]

I'm totally perplexed by this. In fact, I've been thinking of asking if I should bring my ARIES to you when I come up Christmas weekend. ;-)

[miguelito]

I'm totally perplexed by this. In fact, I've been thinking of asking if I should bring my ARIES to you when I come up Christmas weekend. ;-)

By all means you can come visit anytime. I will be travelling for Xmas though. I am perplexed as well.

[jtwrace]

By all means you can come visit anytime. I will be travelling for Xmas though. I am perplexed as well.

 

Thanks, yeah, I'll be there that weekend. Next time (whenever that is). Can you ask your dealer if they have one that they can send you to try? I just wonder if there is something else going on. I doubt it but it would be worth a shot. Anyone in NYC that can do a loan!?!?!

[miguelito]

Maybe your mini just sounds better than the Aries accessing the same files?

I've not had time to do a full compare yet, i'll have a good listen during the christmas hols.

But from what i've heard i'd say the quality is about the same.

I just think the Aries can provide a non technical method to access streaming, local content and radio URLs from

a single family friendly interface.

Have you tried a SPDIF cable on the Aries rather than USB?

 

Cheers Phil

I have found in the past SPDIF out of ARIES does sound more organic to me, but I can't have that since I have a fair amount of DSD content (my DAC doesn't do DoP over SPDIF).

 

The convenience of the interface is VERY appealing to me, but at this point in time I find that the SQ of the mini far outweighs the ARIES - which I am finding utterly puzzling.

[tranz]

Have you tried wired instead of wireless?

 

Where are the files stored?

[miguelito]

Thanks, yeah, I'll be there that weekend. Next time (whenever that is). Can you ask your dealer if they have one that they can send you to try? I just wonder if there is something else going on. I doubt it but it would be worth a shot. Anyone in NYC that can do a loan!?!?!

No way. I tried and tried to get a loaner before I bought. I decided to buy from Acoustic Sounds, who had them in stock, and I knew it would be hard to send back even within their return period. If I didn't try it myself extensively I would have been itching forever, since on paper it is utterly perfect.

 

I very much doubt there's something wrong with it since we are talking about subtle (but meaningful) differences frankly.

[rockerz]

So I've had my ARIES for 2+ months. I've listened to it and have posted on the ARIES hardware thread some impressions - which seem to go against the general perception. So here's an honest question...

 

To narrow this down, this is what I'm comparing:

a- ARIES (fw 1.10, over wifi)

b- mini + Amarra 3.03

USB cable: Lightspeed USB split

DAC: EmmLabs XDS1v2 (mdat2)

 

And I am exclusively comparing PCM files (ripped CD's & HDTracks). I chose Amarra in this comparison because I find it to be better for PCM than A+2 (and possibly HQPlayer but I can't say the latter first hand).

 

Issue: I am finding the sound of 'a' to be thin and uninteresting, whereas the sound of 'b' is much more harmonically rich and involving. The difference is that between "gorgeous tune, stuck to the couch, I can't move, damn that voice" vs "sounds good - what else can I play?" type of music experience.

 

Yet I keep reading how enthralled everyone is with the AIRES so I start to think "how can this be"? All of the known mini "tweaks": RAM disk, linear PS, no internal fan, no HDs mounted, no extra unnecessary processes running, are there by default in the ARIES. So how can this be?

 

Thx.

 

Miguel

 

While I did not have a great deal of time to spend with it, I was able to try an Aries in my system via USB. I attached a large thumb drive with several hi res albums that I listen to frequently and know well. I must agree with Miguel. I found the sound of the Aries to be dull and uninvolving. The image size was smaller and distant in comparison to the Mini/Audirvana. It was not terrible, mind you, but not nearly as good as the Mini in my system. The other troubling aspect was the DSD to PCM conversion. It was clearly inferior to Audirvana.

[tranz]

One additional test that might be of interest. Using the Tweaked Mac as the source of the audio files fed to the Aries via wired ethernet.

 

Reading some of John Swensons posts on signal integrity this might be an underlying cause.

 

Cheers

[miguelito]

While I did not have a great deal of time to spend with it, I was able to try an Aries in my system via USB. I attached a large thumb drive with several hi res albums that I listen to frequently and know well. I must agree with Miguel. I found the sound of the Aries to be dull and uninvolving. The image size was smaller and distant in comparison to the Mini/Audirvana. It was not terrible, mind you, but not nearly as good as the Mini in my system. The other troubling aspect was the DSD to PCM conversion. It was clearly inferior to Audirvana.

Yes indeed. I tried the Transparent Performance USB cable on ARIES: Was a tad less analytical than the Lightspeed, but the soundstage felt more compressed.

 

Last night I listened to the new Ray Charles Loves Company from HDTracks (24/192) on ARIES and mini+Amarra. ARIES was ok but uninteresting. mini+Amarra: bam! like being in the room (fireplace on the side).

[miguelito]

One additional test that might be of interest. Using the Tweaked Mac as the source of the audio files fed to the Aries via wired ethernet.

 

Reading some of John Swensons posts on signal integrity this might be an underlying cause.

Sorry don't quite understand the experiment. The ARIES is connected to the DAC over USB, and network connection is over wireless (5GHz subnet, only ARIES on this band). Minimserver is running on the mini and serving the same exact files from the same drive. mini is on gig ethernet to gig switch to living room airport extreme to ARIES over wifi. I tried both 2.4GHz wifi and wired ethernet for ARIES - no difference.

[tranz]

Sorry don't quite understand the experiment. The ARIES is connected to the DAC over USB, and network connection is over wireless (5GHz subnet, only ARIES on this band). Minimserver is running on the mini and serving the same exact files from the same drive. mini is on gig ethernet to gig switch to living room airport extreme to ARIES over wifi. I tried both 2.4GHz wifi and wired ethernet for ARIES - no difference.

 

Hi miguelito,

 

Ah, I did not realize the source of files in both scenarios was the Mac Mini. When you tried wired, was it direct without switches, routers in between?

[miguelito]

Hi miguelito,

 

Ah, I did not realize the source of files in both scenarios was the Mac Mini. When you tried wired, was it direct without switches, routers in between?

 

mini to Ethernet to switch to Ethernet to ARIES. But I have also tried wireless and the impact is the same. I'm talking a big difference here, not subtle at all, no contest.

[jtwrace]

I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere but do you have a NAS or have you tried USB HD playback?

[miguelito]

I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere but do you have a NAS or have you tried USB HD playback?

Minimserver on the mini (can also run it on the mac pro in my home office). I have zero interest in a USB HD.

[jtwrace]

Minimserver on the mini (can also run it on the mac pro in my home office). I have zero interest in a USB HD.

 

Can you try it at least? This will eliminate the Mini altogether. Just try it. Please. Use a jump drive even. It's super simple.

[kennyb123]

I am finding the sound of 'a' to be thin and uninteresting, whereas the sound of 'b' is much more harmonically rich and involving. The difference is that between "gorgeous tune, stuck to the couch, I can't move, damn that voice" vs "sounds good - what else can I play?" type of music experience.

 

My impression of b (Amarra) is that it's doing something to the music to make it sound richer. There's a sameness to the music that just shouldn't be.

 

Not my cup of tea as I prefer that the software just get the heck out of the way, even if it means that some material sounds thin.

[tranz]

A few other things to try:

 

1. Check whether minimserver is setup to transcode.

 

2. Are you using digital volume anywhere?

 

3. Try Jriver as a DLNA server instead

[ErikM]

Try a Good aes/ebu digital cable.. I've been comparing a Shunyata Python, to an Audioquest Diamond USB, and definitely prefer the aes balanced.. I find the aes to sound bigger and meatier, more robust and toe tapping. The USB seems more detailed and maybe airier but less body.

[wanta911]

A few other things to try:

 

1. Check whether minimserver is setup to transcode.

 

 

OK - please explain?

[Distinctive]

A few other things to try:

 

1. Check whether minimserver is setup to transcode.

 

2. Are you using digital volume anywhere?

 

3. Try Jriver as a DLNA server instead

These are very good items to check, especially 1 & 2, IMO.

Based on the response from wanta911, Item 1 hasn't been done deliberately, so I doubt it.

[Cebolla]

Based on the response from wanta911, Item 1 hasn't been done deliberately, so I doubt it.

Possibly as far as wanta911 is concerned, but the OP hasn't made any such response, so should still look into it.

[Cebolla]

A few other things to try:

 

1. Check whether minimserver is setup to transcode.

OK - please explain?

Transcoding is where the original audio file data is changed in some way, on the fly during the streaming process, with the streamer/renderer/player receiving the altered audio file data instead of the original. The conversion may or may not be bit perfect, depending on the requirement, so there could be some audio data loss compared to the original. It is usually used to perform some sort of enhancement on the audio signal that would have been produced from the original music file and/or to convert the music file from a format that the renderer isn't designed to play back into one that it is.

 

MinimServer's own transcoder currently comes as part of an optional extra component known as MinimStreamer. So you have to (deliberately) install and configure MinimStreamer, before you can get any transcoding to occour on the music files being streamed via MinimServer.

[FIndingit]

I agree with kennyb. Amarra, when I used it, always sounded richer and smoother. Audirvana was the more neutral option I used for a long time with my MBP.

 

One thing the Aries absolutely excels in my view is focus/density. To me it also gives more detail and grainless highs vs Audirvana.