LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

[wklie]

1 hour ago, erniejade said:

Wkile, I just looked at what firmware my D1 is running and its on 11.  I see 13 is out.  In the past it has automatically updated. What do i need to do to upload to the latest 2020 version? 

 

In Lumin app, please make sure Firmware Upgrade setting is set to On.  (If you need to change it, please wait for 60 seconds here.)  Then power cycle the D1.  Then double tap iPad home button, swipe away Lumin app and relaunch it.  If it still does not work, please reboot the iPad.

[erniejade]

1 hour ago, wklie said:

 

In Lumin app, please make sure Firmware Upgrade setting is set to On.  (If you need to change it, please wait for 60 seconds here.)  Then power cycle the D1.  Then double tap iPad home button, swipe away Lumin app and relaunch it.  If it still does not work, please reboot the iPad.

No dice.  Unplugged the D1, rebooted the ipad, made sure check for firmware updates is on yes. Did it all once again and it did not go.  

 

 

[wklie]

Sent manual firmware upgrade instruction via PM.

[wklie]

User e-mail:

Quote

The Leedh processing upgrade with the U1 Mini totally improved my system sound.

 

Huge thanks for letting me actually hear the capability of my audio system for the first time.

 

[barrows]

On 6/3/2020 at 8:09 AM, pl_svn said:

almost for sure better than Roon's vc

There is no actual reason to believe that....

[ogs]

7 hours ago, barrows said:

There is no actual reason to believe that....

Maybe you are right, maybe not, but what is your explanation..?

[barrows]

1 hour ago, ogs said:

Maybe you are right, maybe not, but what is your explanation..?

Roon volume control is 64 bit.  It is lossless unless one is using enormous amounts of attenuation.  Even LeedH themselves appear to compare their volume control to ones operating at only 24 bits when they claim superiority.  I am unaware of any aspect of LeedH, or of any possible aspect of LeedH, which could make it perform any better than what Roon does.  They are both likely transparent.

[BlueSkyy]

Peter, regarding the interplay of the Lumin volume control and the maximum volume setting, as well as Leedh, I would like to know, if not proprietary:

 

1.  When setting max volume to, say 60 in my case, are the volumetric steps, in db, offered by the control in the Lumin app now 60% of what the equivalent change would have been if the volume limit was set to 100%?  Or is the volume limit simply a maximum above which the Lumin output cannot go?

 

2.  Is the volume limit adhere to the requirements set by the Leedh volume algorithm?

 

Thanks.

[ogs]

42 minutes ago, barrows said:

Roon volume control is 64 bit.  It is lossless unless one is using enormous amounts of attenuation.  Even LeedH themselves appear to compare their volume control to ones operating at only 24 bits when they claim superiority.  I am unaware of any aspect of LeedH, or of any possible aspect of LeedH, which could make it perform any better than what Roon does.  They are both likely transparent.

Thanks, makes sense..

[pl_svn]

33 minutes ago, ogs said:

Thanks, makes sense..

 

what doesn't make sense, at the very least in terms of "politeness", is Sonore guys regularly popping-out in threads (even in sponsored areas) about their competitors products "depreciating" them 🙄

 

oh... wait... it actually makes sense pretty much!

 

might this be the reason why I never considered buying anything from them? 😜

 

seriously (Sonore) guys: I do appreciate your knowledge and contributions in many areas of this hobby (for us)

but being it a business (too) for you... ethics should make you stay silent whenever competitors stuff is involved

[barrows]

30 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

what doesn't make sense, at the very least in terms of "politeness", is Sonore guys regularly popping-out in threads (even in sponsored areas) about their competitors products "depreciating" them

Umm?  Please point out any comments which I have made which are critical of Lumin products, and I will ask Chris to remove them.  I try to make a point of never criticizing any other companies' products (with the very rare exception of products which might cause actual damage or poor performance is used together with a Sonore product).

The fact is I like and appreciate Lumin products, and have spoken positively of them many times on these forums.

[BlueSkyy]

This comes to mind:

 

"There is no actual reason to believe that.... "

 

While not a slam against any particular vendor, it caused me to take note and wonder if there was some agenda, hidden or otherwise, at work.  Maybe it's just a sign that some of us, me included, are all a little too sensitive these days................

[pl_svn]

@barrows it actually is the very first time on a Lumin product

can't say the same about Allo's or UpTone's

 

also... it's not you the one who usually does what I said and this wasn't directed at you, I reacted here 'cause... enough is enough 😶

so forgive me for calling out *you*

 

my point, though, doesn't change

[barrows]

Just now, BlueSkyy said:

This comes to mind:

 

"There is no actual reason to believe that.... "

 

While not a slam against any particular vendor, it caused me to take note and wonder if there was some agenda, hidden or otherwise, at work.  Maybe it's just a sign that some of us, me included, are all a little too sensitive these days................

In my follow up comment I made the statement that both the LeedH volume control and the the volume control in Roon are likely transparent.  i do not find anything about these statements to be critical, but I am sorry if you do.

[barrows]

3 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

it actually is the very first time on a Lumin product

can't say the same about Allo's or UpTone's

 

also... it's not you the one who usually does what I said and this wasn't directed at you, I reacted here 'cause... enough is enough 😶

so forgive me for calling out *you*

 

my point, though, doesn't change

I can only speak for myself here.  And again: I like and appreciate Lumin products, and have said many positive things about them on these forums.

[BlueSkyy]

3 minutes ago, barrows said:

In my follow up comment I made the statement that both the LeedH volume control and the the volume control in Roon are likely transparent.  i do not find anything about these statements to be critical, but I am sorry if you do.

Thank you for taking the time to explain.  As I mentioned, I did not find the comment critical.  I simply found it to be to be "impolite" possibly because of the abruptness of the original comment.

 

My sincere apologies for overthinking things and please enjoy the rest of your day.

[barrows]

1 minute ago, BlueSkyy said:

Thank you for taking the time to explain.  As I mentioned, I did not find the comment critical.  I simply found it to be to be "impolite" possibly because of the abruptness of the original comment.

 

My sincere apologies for overthinking things and please enjoy the rest of your day.

No worries, I am just glad we have it straightened out.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, I also did a double-take on Barrows' comment, but I went back through the thread and read it in context and I think it's a very fair comment that points out a fact. 

 

Let's get back to Lumin :~)

[wklie]

1 hour ago, BlueSkyy said:

Peter, regarding the interplay of the Lumin volume control and the maximum volume setting, as well as Leedh, I would like to know, if not proprietary:

 

1.  When setting max volume to, say 60 in my case, are the volumetric steps, in db, offered by the control in the Lumin app now 60% of what the equivalent change would have been if the volume limit was set to 100%?  Or is the volume limit simply a maximum above which the Lumin output cannot go?

 

2.  Is the volume limit adhere to the requirements set by the Leedh volume algorithm?

 

1. Actual volume = main volume (in circle) * Max Volume % .  For example, the main volume in circle is 80, but the Max Volume % is 60, then the actual volume is 48.  This is true regardless of whether Leedh Processing Volume is enabled or not.

 

2. The volume limit is not set by Leedh.  The individual steps, however, conform to Leedh algorithm requirements.

[BlueSkyy]

16 minutes ago, wklie said:

 

1. Actual volume = main volume (in circle) * Max Volume % .  For example, the main volume in circle is 80, but the Max Volume % is 60, then the actual volume is 48.  This is true regardless of whether Leedh Processing Volume is enabled or not.

 

2. The volume limit is not set by Leedh.  The individual steps, however, conform to Leedh algorithm requirements.

Thanks for that information.  In order to have the combination of main volume and max volume work for both listening through my main speakers and having my headphone set ups with reasonable volume control settings on those devices when listening with one of the Lumin's digital outputs I needed to put an additional -10 db in line with the Lumin's XLR outputs but I am good to go for now.

[wklie]

I welcome barrow's presence and sharing his knowledge with us here.

 

In audio it is often worthwhile to try alternatives.  Just as people have different preferences for filters and upsampling algorithms, we give Lumin users an alternative volume algorithm to hear for themselves, and make it easy to do A/B comparison with a setting.

 

One may think that digital volume mathematics are well established.  However, is the standard way of doing it already gives the best SQ?  I was told in an audio exhibition, an analog volume exhibitor demonstrated SQ superiority even at 0.5dB digital attenuation from a prestigious DAC.  So I think it is a worthwhile subject to explore whether a different way of doing digital volume sounds better.

 

I would invite Lumin users to try it and let us know what you think of it - better, same, or worse than your preamp.  In case it's better, I'm happy spent we the money and time for it.  Even if it's not, I think we also served a valuable purpose.  I would also invite non-Lumin users to buy our product and try it. 

 

 

[BlueSkyy]

7 minutes ago, wklie said:

 I would also invite non-Lumin users to buy our product and try it. 

 

 

Shameless 🤣  I like it!

[pl_svn]

10 minutes ago, wklie said:

I would also invite non-Lumin users to buy our product and try it. 

 

and what about Lumin users waiting for a U2 streamer so they can move the U1 Mini to their secondary system? 😛

[Liam]

@wkliePeter I am out of my depth here.  Can the benefits of the LeedH volume be fully enjoyed when an external dac is used, for example MHDTLabs Orchid Dac.  Does adjusting the volume have any deleterious effect on the performance of the dac?  Are there any particular compatibility factors to be taken into account when selecting a power amplifier?  By the way I am using the UI Mini.  Thanks.  

[further]

@wklie,

 

Peter I had not previously tried bypassing my preamp, but did some experimentation yesterday with my LUMIN X1.   I have some older 4-way active speakers, so the connection is actually to the analog actitve crossover and then from there to amps.  My current installed XLR cables are not quite long enough to reach.  I did not move my preamp, a Vinnie Rossi Signature L2.  It is a DHT tubed  unit and I do not have room in other than its current shelf location due to height.  I did not want to completely rearrange everything for my limited testing.  My first test involved removing current output XLRs, Triode Wire Labs, from the X1 and replacing with Mogami I had in storage.  The presentation is very clear and transparent and appears louder than through my VR preamp.  The presentation appears more dynamic but loudness can very much influence that perception.  I also did some checking of mixing cables while using the preamp by replacing the TWL cables to the VR while keeping a TWL pair to the crossover, reversing that by running TWL to the VR and Mogami to the crossover, and then just Mogami to the VR and out to the crossover as well as prior TWL for both.   I was checking for inital impressions during all this and did not allow any one test to settle in for long period.

 

The inital impressions were interesting enough I will want to spend more time on each change with preselected musci selections I repeat for each.  I may also include doing so just from the LUMIN App and also using Roon for selecting and playing the music.  

 

I am using iPad to control the LUMIN App.  There is a great deal of configuration and control afforded by the LUMIN App, but I do miss the ease of a handheld remote for quick access to volume adjustments, muting, and in the case of the preamp, selectability for sources,  and fine adjustment of channel emphasis--not balancing of tube bias but output volume bias by channel.

 

As a suggestion, you may want to consider adding the up/down interface arrows in the App as well as slide bar for Leedh like is present for Volume.  Also suggest channel level emphasis control from center position similar to preamp to better dial in when speakers cannot be same identical distance from listener.  Ability to dial in improves imaging and soundstage perceptions.

 

Thanks