Auralic - disingenuous or merely incompetent?

[manisandher]

I've just received a brand spanking-new Aries G1.1. I've got three problems with it:

 

1. On their website, Auralic claim the Aries G1.1 to be RoonReady. It isn't. When trying to connect, Roon says that the G1.1 is not certified and therefore refuses to connect. I've had an Aries G2.1 (on loan) and G1 (which I own) here, and both have worked perfectly with Roon. I'm sure it wil be just a matter of time before Auralic sort this out, but they really should have been on top of this before releasing the G1.1.

 

2. On their website, Auralic claim that the G1.1 uses dual 'femto clocks'. The USB oscillator in the G1.1 is the Skyworks Si530, with a measured phase jitter of 0.3ps RMS. I would have expected a 'femto clock' to measure in single-digit fs, not 100s of fs.

 

3. On their website, Auralic claim that the G1.1 has a galvanically-isolated USB output. Unlike the Aries G2.1, which uses the Silanna chip and does indeed sport galvanic USB isolation, the G1.1 doesn't. There is no galvanic isolation at the USB output.

 

Problems 1 and 2 above, I could live with. No doubt 1 will get sorted out soon enough, and 2 is probably just a matter of definition. But 3 is a total show-stopper for me. Auralic's claim here is totally false... and in my eyes, unforgiveable.

 

Unsurprisingly, the G1.1 is going back.

 

Mani.

[sphinxsix]

Is the number of channels in accordance with specification.?

[manisandher]

19 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Is the number of channels in accordance with specification.?

 

I'm assuming you're referring to my issue with Lumin? Well, that's one thing Auralic have got right - they don't limit the number of channels on their USB outputs to just two, as Lumin do.

 

My three points above remain...

[sphinxsix]

38 minutes ago, manisandher said:

I'm assuming you're referring to my issue with Lumin?

 

No, I wasn't, haven't heard of your issues with Lumin.

BTW some people claimed here..

..that one can claim practically anything while marketing a product, I hope they will defend Auralic's right to do so with regard to G1.1...😎

 

[Rt66indierock]

6 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

 

No, I wasn't, haven't heard of your issues with Lumin.

BTW some people claimed here..

..that one can claim practically anything while marketing a product, I hope they will defend Auralic's right to do so with regard to G1.1...😎

 

 

It seems you can make just about any claim you want to in America. 

[manisandher]

34 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

No, I wasn't, haven't heard of your issues with Lumin.

 

It wasn't a big deal. I organised a home demo of a Lumin U1X through a dealer here in the UK. Neither of us realised at the time that all Lumin streamers only output 2 channels of audio from their USB outputs. I need 8 channels for my fully active setup.

[manisandher]

38 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

...that one can claim practically anything while marketing a product, I hope they will defend Auralic's right to do so with regard to G1.1...😎

 

To my eyes, Auralic's claim about the G1.1 having galvanic isolation on its USB port is a little like a car manufacturer claiming that its model has a turbo... when it doesn't.

 

Porsche Taycan - oops!

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

No, I wasn't, haven't heard of your issues with Lumin.

@manisandher I just imagined companies saving money by eg selling one channel 'stereo' (according to their claims) gear.. 😎

[sphinxsix]

55 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

It seems you can make just about any claim you want to in America. 

 

Here OTOH I imagined for a second a situation in which politicians are obliged by the law to deliver what they had promised in their campaign otherwise they can be sued.. 😎

(actually something almost like that happened in the Netherlands a couple years ago and the government had been obliged by a court to 'deliver', that was about limiting the country's greenhouse gas emissions)

[NOMBEDES]

One channel is ok with me, I like mono...........oh wait......

[sphinxsix]

11 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

One channel is ok with me

 

That's ok with me but have some empathy for people who are into eg Dolby Atmos, man! 😉

 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

 

Here OTOH I imagined for a second a situation in which politicians are obliged by the law to deliver what they had promised in their campaign otherwise they can be sued.. 😎

(actually something almost like that happened in the Netherlands a couple years ago and the government had been obliged by a court to 'deliver', that was about limiting the country's greenhouse gas emissions)

 

Not how it works here.

[Axiom05]

8 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Not how it works here.

That's an understatement.

[sphinxsix]

@manisandher Did you contact Auralic? What was their response?

[GregWormald]

16 hours ago, manisandher said:

Auralic - disingenuous or merely incompetent?

Deliberately lying?

[PeterSt]

22 hours ago, manisandher said:

is a little like a car manufacturer claiming that its model has a turbo... when it doesn't.

 

Porsche Taycan - oops!

 

Only the Turbo and the Turbo S.

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Only the Turbo and the Turbo S.

 

If they only lied about the turbo models, I'd forgive them..

 

[manisandher]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Only the Turbo and the Turbo S.

 

Hey Peter, good to hear you're still alive and kicking.

 

Shame your sense of humour hasn't changed 😉.

[manisandher]

Just to wrap this thread up...

 

Yesterday, when I tried to select the G1.1 from Roon, I got a message saying that it was not Roon certified.

 

I set the G1.1 back up again today, and the first thing it did was to automatically update its firmware (it didn't do this yesterday). It now works perfectly with Roon. My thanks to Xuanqian Wang at Auralic for suggesting this.

 

I have no idea why (because they look identical internally), but the new G1.1 sounds so much better than my old G1 (which I bought used a short while ago). And for anyone who's interested, I'll definitely be keeping the G1.1 .

 

Mani (a happy Auralic customer... finally!)

[sphinxsix]

This is an extremely interesting thread and I think that as for this final @manisandher's statement:

 

49 minutes ago, manisandher said:

I have no idea why (because they look identical internally), but the new G1.1 sounds so much better than my old G1

 

we should at least try to find the explanation.. 

My take.

Auralic somehow managed to solve these two problems..

 

On 10/5/2022 at 2:53 PM, manisandher said:

2. On their website, Auralic claim that the G1.1 uses dual 'femto clocks'. The USB oscillator in the G1.1 is the Skyworks Si530, with a measured phase jitter of 0.3ps RMS. I would have expected a 'femto clock' to measure in single-digit fs, not 100s of fs.

 

3. On their website, Auralic claim that the G1.1 has a galvanically-isolated USB output. Unlike the Aries G2.1, which uses the Silanna chip and does indeed sport galvanic USB isolation, the G1.1 doesn't. There is no galvanic isolation at the USB output.

 

..through their firmware upgrade..

🙄

[manisandher]

27 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

... we should at least try to find the explanation.

 

I have a project that I've been meaning to undertake for over a year now, focused on exactly this. I think I've found a way of measuring differences at the analogue output of a modern, well-measuring USB DAC with two different-but-bit-identical inputs - something that the ASR crowd totally deny could be the case.

 

If I get a chance tomorrow, I might kick my project off by comparing my old G1 with my new G1.1. I mean, the difference between the two is so clearly audible, it must be measurable.

[One and a half]

41 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

I have a project that I've been meaning to undertake for over a year now, focused on exactly this. I think I've found a way of measuring differences at the analogue output of a modern, well-measuring USB DAC with two different-but-bit-identical inputs - something that the ASR crowd totally deny could be the case.

 

If I get a chance tomorrow, I might kick my project off by comparing my old G1 with my new G1.1. I mean, the difference between the two is so clearly audible, it must be measurable.

Best of fortune with that endeavour,  pls keep us posted.

[Archimago]

17 hours ago, manisandher said:

I have a project that I've been meaning to undertake for over a year now, focused on exactly this. I think I've found a way of measuring differences at the analogue output of a modern, well-measuring USB DAC with two different-but-bit-identical inputs - something that the ASR crowd totally deny could be the case.

 

If I get a chance tomorrow, I might kick my project off by comparing my old G1 with my new G1.1. I mean, the difference between the two is so clearly audible, it must be measurable.

 

This sounds interesting. Let us know what procedure you're using and results of course!

 

[manisandher]

6 hours ago, Archimago said:

This sounds interesting.

 

Early results are very encouraging. I'm measuring differences of a few dB at the analogue outputs of my Okto DAC, being fed by my new Aries G1.1 vs. my old G1. (I've verified that the outputs from both streamers are bit-identical.) The results correlate well with my preference for the G1.1.

 

But I want to make sure these results are not just flukes, so will do more testing hopefully tomorrow evening.

 

6 hours ago, Archimago said:

Let us know what procedure you're using and results of course!

 

Yes, of course.

[Miska]

On 10/7/2022 at 12:44 AM, manisandher said:

I have a project that I've been meaning to undertake for over a year now, focused on exactly this. I think I've found a way of measuring differences at the analogue output of a modern, well-measuring USB DAC with two different-but-bit-identical inputs - something that the ASR crowd totally deny could be the case.

 

If I get a chance tomorrow, I might kick my project off by comparing my old G1 with my new G1.1. I mean, the difference between the two is so clearly audible, it must be measurable.

 

I have no trouble measuring or hearing difference with/without Intona USB isolator with various DACs. Just like differences with various sources too. With some other DACs it makes no difference. And some other isolation products just make things worse.

 

I have number of cases where without the isolator and my ear close to tweeter, and no music playing I can hear source activity as varying noise. And with the isolator it completely disappears and becomes totally silent even ear 1 cm from the tweeter. Sometimes you need to play low level signal to disengage output mute, for example ESS chips detect if you repeat same sample pattern long enough and it'll engage output mute (relays).