Denafrips Pontus II vs Chord Qutest impressions (as well as the Denafrips Ares II)

[Calvin & Hobbes]

Sharing some initial listening impressions of the Pontus from the last several days:

 

I've had a Chord Qutest in my system for the past 2 months (as well as Denafrips Ares II for the previous four months)  with the intention of comparing it to the Denafrips Pontus II. I received my Pontus this past Monday so have had several days of listening to the Pontus after giving it 24 hours of break-in on top of the 100 hours that it received at the factory.

 

Background on the Qutest as a reference point: The Qutest sounded really good with notably a high level of detail retrieval. There were two shortcomings that stood out for me about the Qutest.

1. With the stock power supply, there was a slight, and I do mean slight, degree of harshness. I found that using a pretty common Anker battery both reduced the noise floor and took away that slight bit of harshness.
2. The Qutest is exceptionally detailed in its sound. But, the Qutest conveyed that detail that seemed artificially Technicolor. Meaning that there was a lot of detail, but either to a degree or conveyed in a way that didn't feel natural or lifelike to me. It sounded slightly, and again I do mean slightly, more "audiophile" than musical in sound.

 

My Objectives for getting the Pontus: In my decision to try out the Pontus, my objective was to get 90% of resolution that a Qutest provides with more of the warmth that I heard in the Denafrips Ares II. Harshness and listening fatigue are very real problems for me with digital audio so a balance of detail and warmth is important for me.

 

Impressions of the Pontus:

 

Resolution and Warmth: I always thought that resolution and warmth were traits on two opposite ends of a spectrum. It has already been eye-opening that Pontus actually seems to have even more detail and resolution than the Qutest and also more smoothness and warmth than the Ares II. What's interesting is that this resolution is delivered in a more lifelike and natural sounding way than via the Qutest. I'm noticing this right now with the piano and string bass in the 'Pueblo Nuevo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording as well as the trumpet and the tonal quality of metal and wood percussion instruments. The Pontus sounds both smooth and full in its sound. One artist for which this unique combination of resolution and warmth really does justice is Jimi Hendrix. I often have not liked to listen to Hendrix on digital due to harshness and noise from jitter and analog sources, compared to my typically better experience of listening to Jimi Hendrix on vinyl. I'm not finding this to be the case with the Pontus. Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Child is sounding both engaging and listenable via the Pontus.

 

With the Pontus powered by a Shunyata Venom power cord, I'm hearing no sense of the slight harshness that I heard from the Ares. I also have a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord that made the Ares II DAC sound smoother without any loss of detail. I'll try that out on the Pontus DAC in a couple of days to see if it makes any difference to the sound of the Pontus.

 

Presence: Instruments and voices are conveyed by the Pontus with what sounds like an appropriate level of weight for each instrument. On the 'Orgullecida' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording, the string bass has a greater level of fullness in its presentation than the voices, electric guitar and trumpet as would be appropriate in real life. In contrast, the Qutest communicates the details but seems to be less able to convey the weight and fullness of each voice and instrument's sound. The 'air' around voices are also conveyed by the Pontus in a very palpable way but with a sense of refinement and restraint that sounds realistic when compared to a real-life performance. In the Cowboy Junkies' 'Trinity Sessions' recording, I hear this very clearly in the 'Blue Moon Revisited' track.

 

Soundstage: The Pontus definitely has a broader and fuller soundstage than the Ares and the Qutest as well, I think. The fullness of the Pontus sound might be a major contributor to my perception that it has a bigger soundstage than the Qutest. I hear this in the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions album.

 

Pace & Emotional Range: What appeals to me most about the Pontus and perhaps what I noticed first was wide range of pace that the Pontus is able to convey. Some DACs like the Qutest have good pace. Other DACs such as the Ares II sound more relaxed. It's intriguing to hear a DAC that can sound both relaxed as well as upbeat and dynamic as needed. For the Pontus, that ability allows it to sound relaxed and calm or energetic and dynamic depending on the music being played. Music through the Pontus seems to be conveyed as the artist or composer intended instead of the Pontus imposing its own sonic signature onto the music. Examples of these two ends of this scale that I have heard are Sara Watkins' new 'Under the Pepper Tree' album versus Les McCann & Eddie Harris' excellent 'Swiss Movement' recording of their performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival.

 

Flow & Continuity: Consistent with my comments on the Pontus' adaptability in terms of pace and emotional range, it is conveys the flow of music really well. Its presentation makes it easy to "follow the tune" when listening to music. For lack of a better way to describe this quality of the Pontus, I would say that it has a lot of patience in how it conveys music. It's not in a rush to get the next note out as the Qutest sometimes seems to be, but can play quicker or slower depending on emotional nature of the music. The 'Murmullo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording has a languid pace that the Pontus conveys well while not losing the underlying drive behind the music. Partly this is due to good timing, but the Pontus' ability to convey tonal colors also helps it to provide this sense of drive and forward movement even on music that is not conducive to an insistent sense of pace. I'd like to point out one recording on which I've heard this quality from the Pontus, but the truth is that I hear this sense of flow on everything I'm listening to with the Pontus.

 

Sound quality of streamed versus local files: Something else that I've heard is that the Pontus seems to at least narrow the sonic difference between streamed Qobuz files and local files. Local files have always sounded better to me. I attribute that to a shorter signal chain without the noise that might come in through being sent through the internet and then transmitted through my local network. Listening to local files and the equivalent music track from Qobuz were very close in sound quality in sighted listening to the degree that I'm don't know if I could distinguish the difference in blind testing.

 

Summary: I'm sure there are more expensive DACs that improve on some of the performance aspects of the Pontus, but I am so impressed by the natural and lifelife way that the Pontus communicates music with no apparent shortcomings in resolution of detail, pace, or tonal quality. I greatly appreciate that it seems to be causing no listening fatigue for me while still presenting music in a full and detailed sounding manner.

 

[sonodynesrp205]

Thank you for this info. Very useful. I choose between Ares II and Pontus II.

 

regards,

Simon

 

[OldBigEars]

In summary, you really love the Pontus and prefer it to the Qutest. Thanks for all the insights.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

6 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

In summary, you really love the Pontus and prefer it to the Qutest. Thanks for all the insights.

 

100%. I was quite surprised to hear that the Pontus not only sounded more natural and fuller, but also had better resolution to boot.

[matthias]

4 hours ago, Calvin & Hobbes said:

 

100%. I was quite surprised to hear that the Pontus not only sounded more natural and fuller, but also had better resolution to boot.

 

Thank you for sharing your listening impressions. I appreciate very much that you value musicality over audiophile aspects.

Please, can you disclose your devices for streaming with Qobuz upstream to the Pontus and if you prefered the Pontus in NOS or OS mode.

 

Thanks again

 

Matt

[Calvin & Hobbes]

5 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Thank you for sharing your listening impressions. I appreciate very much that you value musicality over audiophile aspects.

Please, can you disclose your devices for streaming with Qobuz upstream to the Pontus and if you prefered the Pontus in NOS or OS mode.

 

Thanks again

 

Matt

Hi Matt, I'm streaming from the following source:

 

TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi Extender > Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable > Pro-ject Stream Box Ultra S2 (Wi-Fi & HDMI outputs turned off) > Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter > Phasure Lush USB cable > Pontus II DAC

 

Music sources are WAV & FLAC files on a memory stick connected to the Pro-ject & streaming via Qobuz

 

So far I seem to prefer the Pontus in the OS - Slow filter mode.  The OS mode seems smoother than the NOS mode. The Slow filter mode seems to add a touch of warmth versus the Fast filter mode. I will admit that I haven't listened extensively in the NOS mode after an initial decision on which mode to start listening in, so I may live with the Pontus in NOS mode for several days to see how that sounds.

[Topk]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:43 PM, Calvin & Hobbes said:

Hi Matt, I'm streaming from the following source:

 

TP-Link RE230 Wi-Fi Extender > Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable > Pro-ject Stream Box Ultra S2 (Wi-Fi & HDMI outputs turned off) > Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter > Phasure Lush USB cable > Pontus II DAC

 

Music sources are WAV & FLAC files on a memory stick connected to the Pro-ject & streaming via Qobuz

 

So far I seem to prefer the Pontus in the OS - Slow filter mode.  The OS mode seems smoother than the NOS mode. The Slow filter mode seems to add a touch of warmth versus the Fast filter mode. I will admit that I haven't listened extensively in the NOS mode after an initial decision on which mode to start listening in, so I may live with the Pontus in NOS mode for several days to see how that sounds.

Can you give more details on the Ares II vs the Pontus? In addition, do they all have the same family sound (like Metrum for example). I’m considering Ares II to see if I like the Denafrips sound. Also, I’m very sensitive to harshness.

[ecwl]

I just noticed @Calvin & Hobbes and @OldBigEars both use Cat 8 Ethernet Cables which I believe are shielded. At least with my experience from Chord DACs, the Cat 8 shielding (or any shielded Ethernet cables) tends to leak RF noise into the Chord DACs and affect its performance. I think this phenomenon affects other DACs too but can sometimes make dull sounding DACs more exciting.

 

That said, @Calvin & Hobbes is one of many who prefers R2R DACs to Chord. I think it’s mostly a preference thing depending on type of music people listen to and system synergy. Ultimately, what sounds good in your system is what’s good.

[OldBigEars]

I need to update my signature but I recently upgraded my microRendu 1.4 to the opticalRendu.  I was really rather dubious as to the benefits of doing so, as the Etherregen was arguably cleaning up the signal in any case.  But anyway the outcome has been a sonic improvement way beyond my expectation.

 

With the opticalRendu now fully burned in I find I'm using the white (Incisive) filter almost all the time, except with poorly recorded music which occasionally has me switching to the orange (Smooth) filter. But as my musical preference is mainly jazz, most recordings are high quality and the Qutest delivers them beautifully. When I put on some old classic rock albums, I occasionally have issues.

[ecwl]

33 minutes ago, OldBigEars said:

I need to update my signature but I recently upgraded my microRendu 1.4 to the opticalRendu.

But anyway the outcome has been a sonic improvement way beyond my expectation.

Yes. I have found it’s very difficult to completely eliminate these types of noise from entering DACs. So for Chord DACs, because the jitter immunity mechanism is different than other DACs, I find the reference sound per the designer is to simply feed it Toslink despite the high source jitter. OpticalRendu is another fantastic way to achieve this too.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

1 hour ago, ecwl said:

I just noticed @Calvin & Hobbes and @OldBigEars both use Cat 8 Ethernet Cables which I believe are shielded. At least with my experience from Chord DACs, the Cat 8 shielding (or any shielded Ethernet cables) tends to leak RF noise into the Chord DACs and affect its performance. I think this phenomenon affects other DACs too but can sometimes make dull sounding DACs more exciting.

I've got an AmazonBasics Cat 6 cable on hand. I'll switch out the Supra Cat 8 cable for the AmazonBasics Cat 6 cable into the Qutest DAC today and report back on what I hear.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

2 hours ago, Topk said:

Can you give more details on the Ares II vs the Pontus? In addition, do they all have the same family sound (like Metrum for example). I’m considering Ares II to see if I like the Denafrips sound. Also, I’m very sensitive to harshness.

Yes, the Ares II was decently smooth in sound, but I did notice some listening fatigue after listening for more than say 90 minutes.  That was with a Shunyata Venom power cable. That listening fatigue seemed to be resolved by switching out the Shunyata Venom power cable for a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cable. (which unfortunately costs almost as much as the Ares DAC)

 

In comparison, I don't seem to experience any listening fatigue at all with the Pontus.

 

I liked the tonal qualities of the Ares, but found that it wasn't particularly engaging on music that I didn't already like. The Qutest does have this quality and the Pontus even more so. The Qutest is more engaging because it pulls out more detail. The Pontus pulls out even more detail than the Qutest, but also provides greater insight into the tonal qualities of voices and instruments.

[creativepart]

You've listened to the Qutest for a 2-months... and the Pontus for a week. Thinking back to when you first put the Qutest in your system can you comment on how you initially felt about your music via the Chord DAC? Were you once as enamored with the Qutest as you are with the Denafrips? Perhaps say, after one week of listening?

[Calvin & Hobbes]

4 hours ago, creativepart said:

You've listened to the Qutest for a 2-months... and the Pontus for a week. Thinking back to when you first put the Qutest in your system can you comment on how you initially felt about your music via the Chord DAC? Were you once as enamored with the Qutest as you are with the Denafrips? Perhaps say, after one week of listening?

I do remember my initial impressions of the Qutest. It sounded good for sure compared to the Ares, but one key difference between my initial impressions of the Qutest versus my initial impressions of the Pontus is the nature of my reaction to the Qutest versus that of the Pontus.

 

My reaction to the Qutest seems in hindsight to have been very intellectual and analytical. There was a level of harshness that I sought to address with using a battery as a power source. I listened to all of the detail that the Qutest produced and thought about that detail.

 

In contrast, my experience with the Pontus was more emotional in nature. I listened to the music and got absorbed in the emotion of the music. I was so engaged with the music coming from the Pontus that it didn't really occur to me to think about how I could make it better. In fact, I just tested out a number of power cords on the Pontus just because I thought I should do so and was happy to realize the original cord that I was using probably sounded best. I seem to be interested in experimenting and tweaking equipment when something doesn't sound quite right. The Pontus both sounds non-harsh and engaging in sound so my interest has been drawn to listening to music rather than messing with equipment.

[davide256]

I think the deficits of the Ares II are largely with its  USB implementation.  Used as DAC with coax from a Linn Genki HDCD player  it sounds terrific,

doesn't have the "digititus" that I  would hear with Schiit multibit Gungnir, Metrum Octave, and Chord Mojo. I've found its USB sound so far pleasant

but perhaps a little blurry... feed it from a Denafrips Iris DDC and all comes into sharp focus for transients. Nice to have a DAC that allows you

to like what your hear instead of wince at digital imperfections.

[Emcee]

I picked up an Ares II recently and was greatly disappointed with the thinness of its sound. Based on the hype and reviews I was expecting a warm rich sound, what I heard was quite detailed but totally lacking weight and fullness. System synergy? To an extent maybe, but even my 10 year old Sabre based Minimax has much more meat on the bones. With a no return policy it has made me wary of trying any other Denafrips products fearing I'll be getting more of the same and will once again take a hit after reselling it.

[barbz]

@Calvin & Hobbes A couple of months in and have your thoughts on the Pontus changed? Have you been drawn back to the Qutest at all?

 

Thankyou

[Calvin & Hobbes]

I've been realizing how good the Pontus really is as I listen to more music. I have listened to the Qutest again twice, but the Qutest is no match for the Pontus in terms of the richness and complexity of its tone quality, its resolution, and how natural it sounds. I'm very happy with the sound of the Pontus.

[barbz]

Thankyou

 

Out of curiosity do you listen with headphones or speakers?

 

 

[Calvin & Hobbes]

On my main system, I'm listening 100% via speakers. For DACs that sound better to me, a lot of the difference is in how they convey spatial cues as well as the "air" around voices and instruments. That seems much more apparent through speakers than via headphones.

[DeathFugue]

On 7/20/2021 at 8:00 PM, Calvin & Hobbes said:

I've been realizing how good the Pontus really is as I listen to more music. I have listened to the Qutest again twice, but the Qutest is no match for the Pontus in terms of the richness and complexity of its tone quality, its resolution, and how natural it sounds. I'm very happy with the sound of the Pontus.

Have you tried either a Mac laptop or Windows-based laptop with the Pontus? If so, do both work properly? I had a Qutest, which sounded great with my MacBook Pro, but PCM 192k or any DSD files were terribly garbled/distorted with my HP Laptop. I ended up returning the Qutest. (By the way, Chord send me a newer Windows driver, but it wasn't any better. I also tried both JRiver and Audirvana on the HP--no joy.)

[Calvin & Hobbes]

23 hours ago, DeathFugue said:

Have you tried either a Mac laptop or Windows-based laptop with the Pontus? If so, do both work properly? I had a Qutest, which sounded great with my MacBook Pro, but PCM 192k or any DSD files were terribly garbled/distorted with my HP Laptop. I ended up returning the Qutest. (By the way, Chord send me a newer Windows driver, but it wasn't any better. I also tried both JRiver and Audirvana on the HP--no joy.)

No, just a streamer.

[davide256]

@Calvin & Hobbes The one thing I've observed comparing a Mojo to the Ares II is that the Ares II can be a bit of a Pollyanna... it doesn't do nasty well whereas the Mojo can.

I'm curious whether the same difference is true between Qutest and Pontus? Some example test tracks below

 

Man of La Mancha (2002 broadway cast) Track 3 "Its all the same"

The Lion King Legacy Collection (original with Jeremy Irons) Track 8 "Be Prepared"

 

Both should drip with sarcasm/contempt in the voice of the lead singer

[Calvin & Hobbes]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

@Calvin & Hobbes The one thing I've observed comparing a Mojo to the Ares II is that the Ares II can be a bit of a Pollyanna... it doesn't do nasty well whereas the Mojo can.

I'm curious whether the same difference is true between Qutest and Pontus? Some example test tracks below

 

Man of La Mancha (2002 broadway cast) Track 3 "Its all the same"

The Lion King Legacy Collection (original with Jeremy Irons) Track 8 "Be Prepared"

 

Both should drip with sarcasm/contempt in the voice of the lead singer

I was unable to find the Man of La Mancha album via streaming, but Jeremy Irons sounds positively evil via the Pontus. I don't have the Qutest anymore so I can't provide a comparison via the Qutest. An analogy I can provide is that Jimi Hendrix sounds amazing via the Pontus with an appropriate amount of edge to the sound of his guitar.

 

The Ares sounds both harsher but also less impactful in sound than the Pontus. 

[OldBigEars]

@Calvin & Hobbesdid you ever try your Qutest with a good optical feed?  I switched over from USB a few weeks ago, with a cheap Chinese converter no less, and the improvement in SQ has been game-changing in my system.  I hate to say it, but from my experience in my system all tests/comparisons of Qutest are off unless we're talking about using it this way.