Building a DIY Music Server

[Nenon]

33 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

The plot thickens! I ordered the Asus Rog XII Extreme. I stupidly presumed because the i9 10090k has built in graphics then clearly compatible MB would have HDMI out! Answer No, has no video out whatsoever! mmmmm! Does anyone here know of any really really low power gpu cards that I could use to configure the Bios then remove? I have no idea if my SJ DC3 rail will even power a really low GPU? Arrrrrrrr! 
 

@Nenon maybe you know since you building SJ PSU’s? Or any other solution? 

 

I've used an external video card with my AMD builds. Worked fine with the SJ LPS. It was just an old GPU, nothing special.

[Nenon]

Some updates from me on the Taiko DIY project.

 

1. The Taiko ATX was delayed and scheduled for the end of April now.

2. The Chassis is still work in progress. Emile has been super busy, but I was assured today that rendering and pricing is coming up ASAP.

3. Taiko USB card - that unfortunately would remain exclusive to Extreme users. We, the DIY community, would not have access to the Taiko USB card for now. It's quite disappointing, and I am starting to think if I need to buy an Extreme. It's still unlikely for me to go that route, but even if I do, that would be a good thing, as I would have a reference to compare this DIY build to.

4. TAS - that is also exclusive to Extreme owners for now. 

5. Unregulated LPS to feed the Taiko ATX - see the rest of this message below.

 

Here is a quick update on the unregulated LPS.

 

It looks something like this:

IEC Inlet / Fuse --> Soft start module --> Transformer --> Rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

 

1 pcs.

IEC/Fuse

TBD

$20 - $90 range

 

1 pcs.

Transformer

Emile has these on order

Don't know the price yet.

 

1 pcs.

Soft start module

https://www.hypex.nl/product/softstart-module/38

~$50 

 

1 pcs.

Rectifier

Taiko will provide an active mosfet rectifier.

 

1 pcs.

Hammond 159ZJ choke. 

Mouser.com part #546-159ZJ

$26.71

 

3 pcs.

Mundorf Capacitor 22000uF 80Vdc MLytic HC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-70412.html

$100.41 each ($301.23)

 

3 pcs.

VCAP ODAM - 0.1 uF

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

$53.74 each ($161.22)

 

I am trying these as well now - https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/cables/mconnect_clg/Presskabelschuh-M6-Ring-Kupfer/?card=4081

 

All that stuff can be made in a way that does not require soldering. For example, the capacitors look like this with screws on top:

With the right pre-terminated cables you can just use a screwdriver to connect it.

We can pick an IEC inlet that looks like this (and does not require soldering):

 

I think we can design this whole thing so even people who can't solder anything can put it together. Obviously, there will be a lot of pictures, explanations, and disclaimers. You would need the connecting wires (with pre soldered connectors).

BTW, I did not pick these components with the agenda to make a solder-less unit. They just sounded best, and the screw connections were a bonus.

 

I've picked the wiring too. But it's a wire that is not available on the consumer market, so I'll have to figure out how to make it more accessible. The Mundorf silver/gold wire is also an option for cost no object units/

 

If I were you, I would not be in a rush to get all the parts now. We may arrange a group order with some discounts. I am looking at that. I may even provide the entire kit with everything needed and detailed instructions. Or get someone else to do that. Also, there is a small chance that I may replace some parts in the last minute (be aware of that!), especially with the plan "B" rectification. I also have a plan Z in mind to test - tube rectification :). Yes, I am serious, but that's not a priority. 

 

All in all, I think we are looking at around $1,000 for the unregulated LPS. Not bad at all for how good this thing sounds with the Taiko ATX. Keep in mind this is designed and voiced with the Taiko ATX. You can try it on a HDPlex DC to DC ATX if you like but it's not a regulated LPS and you can't feed your computer directly with this.

 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

Good Day Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone had any trouble with Intel i7-10700k (125w TDP) or alike in a fanless case HDPLEX H5 ?

 

I built a new server with this CPU and yesterday when my SR7T arrived and connected to it, the first one hour while in BIOS, temp was very good 38 to 40 Celsius and then up to 75 to 80 C ( Red Numbers ).

 

This morning i dissemble the copper block, CPU and pipes and cleaned it very well so i could put some new Thermal paste, perhaps i put a little more on CPU and on Pipes, but it was worst, Temp when to 70 Celsius in a heartbeat, i had to turn it off.

 

I have been using the same thermal paste that i used on a NUC, and an AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (65 TDP)

 

Any experience on this ?, Thanks

 

125W TDP might be too high for the HDplex. Its heat sinks are not the best. 

How hot is the heatsink when the CPU is 80C? If it gets really hot (i.e. you can't keep your hands on it) you might have reached the capacity of the HDplex. However, if it does not get that hot, then most likely something is not right with the rest of the components that are routing the heat to the heat sink. 

 

 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

I recently discovered that playing files from RAM sounds better when they sat on Optane rather than the (externally fed) SSD...no, don't ask me to explain

 

We've posted about that more than two years ago :). Good to see you catching up :). 

I suppose you fixed your Optane issue then? 

[Nenon]

19 hours ago, genvirt said:

Great news @Nenon, if that so, can You please share final dimensions (H:D:W) and would be the holes the same as on HDPlex?

 

On 1/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, Nenon said:

Dimensions are approximately 170 mm x 78 mm. 

Depth is around 20 mm but you need clearance for the Molex connectors. Holes match the HDplex 400W DC to DC ATX. 

 

You can find more specs in my post:

On 1/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, Nenon said:

Taiko Audio DC-DC ATX

 

Input Voltage:
- 16VDC min
- 48VDC max

- Input connector: Molex 469920610 (same as on the HdPlex)

 

Output rails:
- 12VDC - 40A
- 5VDC - 15A
- 3.3VDC - 15A
- 5VDC SB - 4A (this is a also available on the SATA connector as an always on supplyrail for a USB card or something similar)

 

Dimensions are approximately 170 mm x 78 mm. 

 

Other notes:
- A little larger than the Hdplex 400W DC to DC ATX but it has the same mounting holes, which makes it a drop in replacement.
- Amps are continuous ratings. 

- Optimal input seems to be in the 19VDC - 35VDC range, but that may change with more experiments.

 

Here are some photos but please keep in mind this is a modified prototype on which several components have been exchanged, hence the residual manual solder marks, wires, scratched copper plate, etc. The production units would be much cleaner / better looking.

 

Connectors from left to right: 6-pin DC input, 8-pin EPS connector output, 24-pin ATX connector output, 8-pin EPS connector output, 4-pin SATA connector output (with 5VDC SB rail as mentioned above and a shared 12V rail).

 

 

Price: 1250 Euro + shipping

First batch is expected in March 2021 end of April.

 

Pre-order form:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu

 

 

 

[Nenon]

I've had the USB card on the left running for over a week in my system and will be doing some critical listening this weekend. 

 

I asked Taiko if I could buy one of those USB cards, but I was told it was only available to Taiko Extreme owners.

A friend of mine with a Taiko Extreme was nice enough to send me his card for evaluation since he knew he would not have a chance to listen to it for some time. Let's say that I am providing a free "burn-in" service to him :).

More to come on this...

[Nenon]

35 minutes ago, Topk said:

Do you have the Taiko USB driver?

No, I don't. That's a proprietary driver as well that is only available to Extreme owners. But since I currently use a Chord DAVE DAC with Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS, the DAVE has an Amanero USB, which is not supported with the Taiko driver. My understanding is that you need a XMOS based USB interface for the Taiko driver to work. 

 

7 minutes ago, Savolax said:

Do you have chance to power the Taiko card with your preferred external LPS also?

No, I had to use the Taiko ATX for the card. It takes 5V and 12V, and those rails need to be powered exactly when the PCIe slot is powered on. It might be tricky to use an external LPS, and I did not want to abuse my friend's USB card too much. 

[Nenon]

4 hours ago, bit01 said:

@Exocer - I thought I had signed up for the Taiko DC DC-ATX but have not heard anything about it since - are they taking orders now and how does that work - or was yours a special case?

I am told Taiko will have the batch of ATX any day now. A couple of early units that were sent out last week. There might be another 2 or 3 left. If you want one ASAP, send me a PM (I will send you Taiko's PayPal account to order one if still available). If you want to wait until the production batch arrives, just wait a little bit more. 

 

6 hours ago, Exocer said:

When @Nenon completes the unregulated LPS

The design is pretty much completed. I am waiting for the special transformers Taiko has ordered for this. They should be a couple of weeks away. Then I can find a case and post instructions on how to make one. 

 

Emile also told me he has reserved CNC time for the DIY chassis around the end of this month. As far as I know, the design of the chassis is ready, but he has not done the rendering to show us. He is going to order a small batch (most likely 20 pcs) and figure out how much they cost. We'll get more details at the end of the month. 

 

I have been listening to the Taiko USB card but haven't had a chance to do a write up on it. Will spend a little more time with it and share what I think. 

[Nenon]

7 hours ago, Tatomek7 said:

Hi, do you know, how will look logistic with EU DIYers? It will take time and money to send it to US and back to EU, can we get it somehow directly?

 

You will buy them directly from Taiko,. They will ship from the Netherlands. 

[Nenon]

7 minutes ago, magnium said:

Welcome @JayM

 

For those who pre-order the Taiko DC DC-ATX and interested in the Taiko DIY case, is there a possibility of consolidating the orders to save shipping costs?

 

Hard to say if I will order the case without knowing the design and cost but just throwing it out there!

Shipping cost for the Taiko ATX is a flat rate of 30 EUR to anywhere in the world. I suggest you get one as soon as you can as supply shortages may impact future batches. 

 

There will also be a transformer that Taiko would provide with the case. Perhaps the transformer can be packaged with the chassis. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

@Nenon I am under the impression that the transformer should be available for sale independent of the chassis. I should be able to buy the DC DC-ATX along with the transformer. Is that not the case ?

 

That is the case. There will be plenty of transformers, since the minimum order Emile had to place was quite big. It was the only way to get this transformer (which I liked the most in my tests). 

As for the shipping and ordering logistics, ETAs, etc. I will leave it to @JayM. 

 

[Nenon]

I've had quite a few requests to build computers for other people over time that I had to turn down due to my affiliation with Sean Jacobs, or lack of time, or simply not having enough interest in the particular build. But I have always been trying to help as much as I can. 

 

@dminches reached out for help some time ago. He has a pretty impressive analog rig. The complaint was that his digital system could never sound like his analog. He had a Lampizator Pacific DAC, which is certainly not the bottleneck. We started improving his digital source piece by piece. After trying some of the things I suggested to him (trying Euphony, Optane drive, PinkFaun USB card with OCXO clock, etc.) he realised the potential, although he was very sceptical that digital could ever sound as good as his analog rig. I told him that the only way he could cross to the next level is to fix the power supply feeding his computer. We got Sean Jacobs involved and designed a linear power supply for @dminches. I built the custom DC4 power supply for him, and this is a picture I found from the building process:

(by the quality of this photo, I can tell it was taken with my phone that was a couple of generations old)

 

It's a massive linear power supply, built as a cost no object project, that can make almost any server sing. After changing the mediocre LPS he was using, he was quite impressed. Two-three months later (that's how long it takes for the LPS to burn-in) I started receiving messages from him how this power supply was a game changer. The long story short, @dminches for the first time started enjoying his digital almost as much as his analog. However the keyword here is "almost". He told me that his digital was almost as good as his analog, but his reel to reel is still better. He said he does not expect the digital to ever be as good as the R2R, but he is enjoying digital a lot now. 

 

We talked more about this, and I told him if he wants to go to the next step, he needs to buy a Taiko Extreme. He asked me if the Taiko Extreme would be better than his DIY server, and my answer was a definite "YES". A few more months passed, and he pulled the trigger on a Taiko Extreme. He wasn't very impressed at the beginning, but that's normal as it needs some burn-in time. It kept getting better and better over time. He got TAS and recently added the Taiko USB card. It was the Taiko USB card that made a big difference (and the burn-in period I am sure), and he decided to keep the Extreme. 

 

His DIY server and DC4 have been listed for sale now:

 

@dminches sent me a 1 bit DSD transfer from his reel to reel yesterday. It was a direct recording from the safety mastertape. I was blown away by how this DSD file sounded! No wonder he thinks his analog still sounds better. It's the way the music was recorded and mastered! Not the noisy hissy magnetic tape. His DSD tape transfer can put many modern digital recordings to shame. I really enjoy the DSD file played through my digital system. It puts many of my vinyls to shame as well. 

So I told @dminches I will post this only if he transfers another album of my choice from reel to reel to DSD! There you go @dminches - now waiting for that DSD file...  Just kidding :). I did not tell him that... But I still expect that DSD file :). 

 

The real reason I am posting this is not to advertise his classified but to add perspective to some of the things we have discussed and give a real world example of how some of the DIY servers we are building compare to the top commercial products. I thought it would be interesting for people to read.

 

The power supply that I built for @dminches was the game changer for him. I had a similar power supply powering my dual CPU server before switching to the Taiko ATX. And here is the truth about linear power supplies: they work amazingly good for low current applications. But when you get to high current draws like the dual Xeon CPUs in the Extreme, regulated LPS is not the best technology to use. I would use and recommend the Taiko ATX with the unregulated LPS for the dual CPU project. In fact I would put this against any regulated LPS, no matter the price, including the high current DC4 I built for @dminches. I compared the two in my system and had a hard time deciding. But the Taiko ATX + unregulated LPS for the dual Xeon project sounded more transparent.  And that is an important part of voicing the server. 

 

For lower current CPUs, we need to test what works better. I am guessing a good regulated LPS would have advantages there. And I certainly prefer a regulated LPS on my USB / network card, network devices, DACs, etc. 

 

[Nenon]

 When everyone was crazy about low-powered CPUs, I tested some high-powered CPUs (with Euphony) and realized there is something special about them. That was before I knew about any high-powered CPU audio servers on the market. I reached out to several manufacturers to ask about a high current LPS (something in the 10-20A range). The only person who got back to me with a positive response was Sean Jacobs. He told me he had been working on a design but does not really know how It sounded yet. I was familiar with Sean’s designs having built a DIY version of his DC3 LPS for my computer and jumped on the opportunity. I bought his high current modules (paid full price for them) from Sean and started playing with them. They were feeding the 12V EPS on my computer and were good for about 10A of continuous current (as long as you have a massive heatsink as they were dissipating about 80W of heat at 10A and even more in the later revisions) and could handle 20A of peak current. Good enough to power many decent CPUs. That is how my journey with high-CPUs started. I tried several Intel i7/i9 CPUs and some AMD Ryzen CPUs. A lot of these experiments have been documented later here and in the novel thread.

 

In the meantime, Sean suggested that there are some parts of the design that can be voiced. He gave me a few ideas, and I started experimenting with different things, just to realize how important the LPS feeding the 12V EPS rail was. I changed some parts and some small sections of the design. And I realized I could tweak the sound of my server to my liking. I got actively engaged with Sean on this project, and at one point I seriously considered starting my own business and making the first high-end high-current LPS designed for audio. Sean was okay with this idea, and we were bouncing around some ideas of the terms of the relationship if we were to go that route. But the main thing was the product. It had to be the best in the world. In fact, I remember telling Sean that I would only go ahead with this if he can design the best high-current power supply in the world. Something that no one else can compete with. Not even the Paul Hynes custom dual regulated SR7 XLR (now called DR7). Sean accepted the challenge, and we started working on it. He sent me different prototype boards to listen to and kept improving and tweaking the design based on my feedback. He implemented parts of his DC4 design and continued to refine this high current LPS. The biggest problem was the heat dissipation but with good heatsinks, that wasn’t really a problem. The prototype was a beast that could do 20-30A continuously and 60A peak if the heatsink allowed.

 

Sean then released his DC4 LPS and he got a bunch of pre-orders. He got super busy. And his orders queue kept growing and growing. I think at some point it was getting closer to 6 months wait time on new orders. Our high-current power supply product was 99% ready, but Sean all of a sudden did not have time to work with me and finish the last 1% so we could go to production. This was an absolute cost no object LPS we were working on. It was much more expensive than the DC4. We considered everything available including massive Duelund caps that cost over $2K each, massive Bocchino connectors and other things I’ve never seen done before. 

 

I could not believe how good the sound in my system was at the time, but I could not share much with the world and I could not finish the product I wanted to release. 

Two things happened while I was waiting for Sean to free up some of his time:
1. Someone gave me a hint that Taiko might be developing a groundbreaking power supply that would change the market. 

2. I offered Sean to help him with some of his DC4 orders, so he can clear up his queue and continue working on our design. Sean gladly accepted my offer and that is how my affiliation with Sean started.

 

In the meantime, I built my dual ASUS Sage motherboard and powered it with the latest prototype of the high current LPS Sean and I nearly perfected. 
I was following the Taiko thread on WBF, and one day I decided to send a message to Emile showing him what I have done. I expected my message to be ignored in a typical big manufacturer manner, but to my surprise Emile welcomed my DIY build in a very warm way. He told me that he has been sharing a lot of details about the Extreme design in the hopes that people would try these parts and follow this path. He actually genuinely seemed happy to finally see someone in the DIY world doing it. He told me my passive cooling solution looked better than his first mockup, asked me how I liked it, and even gave me some hints of what to try. All that was a big surprise to me, and I tried to open a communication channel with Emile, while trying to also be respectful of his time and IP. He was open about some aspects of the Extreme, and he was completely closed about some of the secrets he did not want to share. 
 

What surprised me even more was how passionate Emile was. He is the biggest DIY-er I have met up to date… He told me that the main reason he started Taiko Audio was to experiment with things that are not available on the market and require solid investment to make. 

We started chatting from time to time and sharing ideas. Let me explain what “sharing ideas” with Emile means… I would suggest a new idea I would like to try to Emile, and he would respond with when he had tried this, what the results were, and add a bunch of other similar things he has tried (basically taking the idea into extremes I could not even imagine). That’s typically how those conversations went. But I’ve learned a lot from that!
 

At some point, while I was helping Sean clear up his queue with DC4 orders, Emile reached out to me and told me about the DC to DC ATX he has developed. He explained some of the design concepts. I gave my word to keep those confidential, so you will not hear about them from me. The main thing is that this SMPS DC to DC ATX is super transparent and doesn’t switch at KHz but at MHz frequencies. He thought it might be good for DIY and asked me if I am interested to evaluate it. Of course I accepted right away! 

That’s something that Emile would learn from this post, but when he sent me his Taiko ATX last year, I was still thinking about releasing the high-end high-current LPS with Sean. I was absolutely convinced that regulated Linear power supplies is the way to go and had what I believe was (and perhaps still is) the best high-current LPS in the world. I was convinced in that just like some of the people who posted earlier here.

 

I received the Taiko ATX, and the first thing I did was swapping out the HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX. Big improvement right away just like @Exocer reported. It was a big eye opener (or a reminder of) how noisy that HDPlex ATX was. 
Note: Let me clarify something here. I didn’t always use the HDPlex DC to DC ATX to power my computer. The HDPlex powered up only the 3.3V and 5V rails on the ASUS SAGE motherboard. I used to power those up with separate rails of DC3/DC4 LPS. But since I was constantly tinkering with this build, I ran a few times into BIOS resets and other issues where an ATX-speced power supply was needed. So, I accepted some level of sound quality degradation with the HDPlex in favor of the convenience of the ATX controller. 
Replacing the HDPlex (which was only feeding the 3.3V and 5V) with the Taiko ATX was a big improvement. But Emile told me the strength of the Taiko ATX is in powering the 12V EPS rail. I put together a higher current higher voltage LPS (mine was 12V which was not enough for the Taiko ATX) and while experimenting I managed to destroy one of the rails on the Taiko ATX. Oops! That happened on the day I received it. Emile added protection in the design, so all the units he is selling have that now. But it took a while to send me a new unit. However, I managed to bypass the ATX on the Taiko ATX and just use the 12V EPS rail on the Taiko ATX. Did that sound better than my pimped out high-current LPS? No, it did not! At least not at the time. I rolled up my sleeves and started working on this unregulated LPS with some help from Emile. I quickly realized how transparent the Taiko ATX was. Any change you make to the unregulated LPS, and you can immediately hear. I played with different transformers, different rectifiers (including mosfet rectifiers), different capacitors, bypass capacitors, inductors, etc. I have been doing this for about 6 months. 
 

This is becoming a very long post already, so let me shorten the story a little bit and get straight to the point. What I learned from this experience is how noisy linear regulators become under high current. No matter what regulators you use… and I’ve tried many – Belleson, paralleled LT3045s, Sean’s regulators, etc. It’s that type of noise that you never thought it was there until it was gone. I can see a bunch of LPS manufacturers attacking me on this and telling me “my design does not have any noise”. Yeah, right! I thought the same. Let’s not argue about that until you try the stuff I am referring to.
To me, based on experience, a rule of thumb is: if it draws more than 5A, LPS is NOT the best way to go. But the most important thing is that I called Sean, explained what I heard with the Taiko ATX, and we decided not to release the special high-current LPS. In my point of view our design (as good as it is) was already obsolete. In fact, I consider myself lucky that the Taiko ATX came in my hands before licensing Sean’s high-current LPS technology and starting my own business. 
 

Now that you have the full “behind the scenes” story, let’s talk about my affiliation. I have been completely transparent about that.
- I do make power supplies for Sean Jacobs. Whatever I make from this is mainly invested in my system and my DIY experiments. It’s a way for me to support this expensive hobby with my hobby (and not drain my bank account). 
- I also have a full-time job that pays my bills. 
- And I have zero financial affiliation with Taiko. I haven’t paid the Taiko ATX that was sent to me last year to test, and that is the only benefit I have received by Taiko. I did however send a DAVE DC4 to Taiko, because we have a big DAVE community and Extreme servers, and Emile thought the DAVE is a horrible DAC. The DAVE DC4 is a game changer, and I wanted him to hear that. Shortly after I sent the DAVE DC4 to Emile, I asked him if I can buy one of the Taiko USB cards from him. He refused and told me that the USB card would only be available to Extreme users. I will not hide that I was disappointed from that message, but it clearly shows that I don’t get special treatment for spreading the word about the Taiko ATX. As mentioned, the Taiko USB card I have in my system was loaned to me by a friend who has an Extreme server. 

 

Although I decided not to start my own company and release a high current LPS, Sean has been offering high current LPS for quite some time, both as finished units and for DIY. They don't have a buil-in ATX controller, but 99% of the time you don't need the ATX section.

I work with Sean. If anything, I should be hiding the Taiko ATX and pushing the Sean Jacobs power supplies instead. It makes sense, right? I don’t make anything from Taiko’s sells. And I do make some profit from the Sean Jacobs power supplies I build. Make your own conclusions from that. 

 

All I can say is the Taiko ATX is a game changer. I am not saying it’s the best way to power any computer on the market. But I am not going back to regulated linear power supplies for this dual CPU build. And this dual CPU build I am using is way better than any other source I have tried. 

 

I can see how my posts can disappoint some manufacturers. I am sure I have pissed off many manufacturers before. That's not the first time and won't be the last. 

 

JCAT is releasing a new fully linear ATX LPS. I am sure there will be plenty of customers for this product. I haven't tried it and I can't comment on it. 

Sean Jacobs offers a high current LPS. Farad is coming up with an ATX product. HDplex has one. Paul Hynes has some good products. It's a competitive market, and that is good for the consumers.

 

I have no desire to try other lower power CPUs at the moment. And I certainly have no desire to try other regulated linear power supplies and compare them with what I use. Other people would need to do that part and share. I also don't have any desire to argue objectively or subjectively and try to prove anything to anyone. I don't make claims what's best, just share my experience. I've spent more than 2 years of my life trying all kinds of power supplies and a lot more years doing all kinds of DIY projects.

My system has never sounded better and my digital source has never been better. My digital source consists of:

- a DIY server using the same motherboard, CPUs, OS, and internal storage as the Taiko Extreme. The server is powered by the unregulated LPS I am sharing for DIY (around $1000 in parts) and the Taiko ATX (1250 Euro).

- I have a JCAT XE in the server that I recommend powering with the best linear power supply you can get. In my case this the Sean Jacobs DC4. Please note, the Taiko ATX does NOT work best here! 

- A Chord DAVE DAC powered by DC4 using offline upsampled files with a program called PGGB. BTW, I can't stand the stock DAVE DAC.

 

I am sorry if sharing my findings upset manufacturers. It's hard to be honest and transparent and not upset someone. But I am committed to remain transparent and honest to the DIY crowd. The good news is there are plenty of new products for people to test. I encourage people to test, compare, share, etc. That's what these forums are about.

[Nenon]

2 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Hi Nenon, 

How are you powering the 12v 6pin PCIE connector on the Sage motherboard? There are 2 x12v outputs  on the Taiko DC -ATX, as opposed to 3 on the HDPlex 800.

The options seem to be:

1) 1 output for each CPU and leave the 6 pin PCIE disconnected.

2)  2 CPUs share an output and 1 for PCIE.

3) PCIE share 1 output with 1 CPU,

( It draws current from nearest CPU when left unconnected according to my mesurements).

How have you connected up?

I too discussed with Sean regarding a high current linear supply  but after experimenting ended up with a linear unregulated supply with the HDplex, so looking forward to receiving the Taiko DC - ATX.

 

Good question. I do #1 at the moment but planning to go with #3 eventually. Be careful with the 6-pin, I think the Pins were reversed that. Just measure it before connecting. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

So...with the revelation of the Taiko ATX we may need to add a Corsair AX1600i to the mix as might be somewhat similar (to the naked eye)

There is just no comparison. I've tried it. The AC to DC is pretty bad on the Corsair AX1600i. It was quite disappointing experience. 

 

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

I will wait for @JayM reply to the question in the post above before I descrbe other technological advantages in the OPTIMO ATX.     

While I am always interested in those technical discussions, can we move this discussion to another thread please?

The last few pages here have been overwhelmed with the OPTIMO and why it's better than this and that.

 

The Sean Jacobs DC4 blows away the OPTIMO 3 DUO in every aspect (confirmed by me and several users), but I never publicly said that, because I find it inappropriate. Every power supply I have heard that uses LT3045 regulators has the same sound signature, and I don't like that sound signature. They have amazing specs but don't sound good. I don't go to other people's threads to keep telling them all that. @Marcin_gps - you should not do that either. 

 

Let's have people try the different products and decide for themselves. I would like to go back on topic and discuss DIY here. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

I would like to go back on topic and discuss DIY here. 

 

Speaking of DIY, I have managed to make the active MOSFET rectifier I was testing available to us to use in the unregulated LPS. It is designed by Taiko. More details on that to follow.

 

There are a total of 3 options I am considering. 

The first one is super simple and cheap - Transformer --> MOSFET rectifier. That's it.

The second option is what I previously shared - Transformer --> MOSFET rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

On 3/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, Nenon said:

Some updates from me on the Taiko DIY project.

 

1. The Taiko ATX was delayed and scheduled for the end of April now.

2. The Chassis is still work in progress. Emile has been super busy, but I was assured today that rendering and pricing is coming up ASAP.

3. Taiko USB card - that unfortunately would remain exclusive to Extreme users. We, the DIY community, would not have access to the Taiko USB card for now. It's quite disappointing, and I am starting to think if I need to buy an Extreme. It's still unlikely for me to go that route, but even if I do, that would be a good thing, as I would have a reference to compare this DIY build to.

4. TAS - that is also exclusive to Extreme owners for now. 

5. Unregulated LPS to feed the Taiko ATX - see the rest of this message below.

 

Here is a quick update on the unregulated LPS.

 

It looks something like this:

IEC Inlet / Fuse --> Soft start module --> Transformer --> Rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

 

1 pcs.

IEC/Fuse

TBD

$20 - $90 range

 

1 pcs.

Transformer

Emile has these on order

Don't know the price yet.

 

1 pcs.

Soft start module

link: TBD

~$50 

 

1 pcs.

Rectifier - that's TBD. There is something that I am using at the moment and I like a lot. But it's an intellectual property that I may not be able to share. I have tested a few and working on a plan B.

 

1 pcs.

Hammond 159ZJ choke. 

Mouser.com part #546-159ZJ

$26.71

 

3 pcs.

Mundorf Capacitor 22000uF 80Vdc MLytic HC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-70412.html

$100.41 each ($301.23)

 

3 pcs.

VCAP ODAM - 0.1 uF

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

$53.74 each ($161.22)

 

I am trying these as well now - https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/cables/mconnect_clg/Presskabelschuh-M6-Ring-Kupfer/?card=4081

 

All that stuff can be made in a way that does not require soldering. For example, the capacitors look like this with screws on top:

With the right pre-terminated cables you can just use a screwdriver to connect it.

We can pick an IEC inlet that looks like this (and does not require soldering):

 

I think we can design this whole thing so even people who can't solder anything can put it together. Obviously, there will be a lot of pictures, explanations, and disclaimers. You would need the connecting wires (with pre soldered connectors).

BTW, I did not pick these components with the agenda to make a solder-less unit. They just sounded best, and the screw connections were a bonus.

 

I've picked the wiring too. But it's a wire that is not available on the consumer market, so I'll have to figure out how to make it more accessible. The Mundorf silver/gold wire is also an option for cost no object units/

 

If I were you, I would not be in a rush to get all the parts now. We may arrange a group order with some discounts. I am looking at that. I may even provide the entire kit with everything needed and detailed instructions. Or get someone else to do that. Also, there is a small chance that I may replace some parts in the last minute (be aware of that!), especially with the plan "B" rectification. I also have a plan Z in mind to test - tube rectification :). Yes, I am serious, but that's not a priority. 

 

All in all, I think we are looking at around $1,000 for the unregulated LPS. Not bad at all for how good this thing sounds with the Taiko ATX. Keep in mind this is designed and voiced with the Taiko ATX. You can try it on a HDPlex DC to DC ATX if you like but it's not a regulated LPS and you can't feed your computer directly with this.

 

I am also testing a 3rd option that would be a cost no object solution. More to follow on that. 

 

The cool thing about these 3 options is that they share the same parts and one can start with option 1 then go to option 2 and then to option 3 with. No wasted parts in the upgrade process, we are just adding more parts as we go up the ladder. Option 2 uses all the parts from option 1 and adds some more parts. Option 3 would use all the parts from option 2 and add some more. 

 

Give me a little bit more time to finish testing and I will share the final configs. As usual, it's DIY so feel free to experiment. No need to stick to my recipe, but it might be a good start. 

[Nenon]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

did you find the perfect transformer wattage for the unregulated PS with the Taiko ATX?

 

Yes, I tested many transformers and picked the one I liked the best. Emile placed a large order of them (there was a significant minimum order he had to do), and they are due soon. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

I do not see anything inaproprate to inform users about the features of a new product such as OPTIMO ATX in this thread.

Informing people about products that are useful for DIY is very welcomed here Marcin.

 

But you did much more than that and also challenged my integrity, twice. If you really want to know which parts were inappropriate, let me know and I will point them out. Otherwise, let's just move on. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

I will start my own topic where everyone is welcomed to discuss any products. 

 

Here is the thread Marcin started:

55 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Hello Guys,

 

I am starting a new thread where I will post my own experiences how to build and optimize a music server. Everyone is free to join and ask questions. I will try to reply all of them if time permits. 

 

I will be posting a recipe for the upcoming JCAT music server. The details of the JCAT music server will be open to anyone and the parts available from JCAT: power supply,  enclosure, USB & NET cards 

 

It is a 2 box music server as keeping the music server part and a truly linear ATX power supply is simply impossible at this power rating. The power supply alone is over 20kg and a size of a hefty integrated amplifier. 

 

Below is a sneak peak (the upper enclosure is a music server part, the bottom part is the ATX PSU enclosure). We are finalizing CE documentation at the moment and 1st production run is scheduled within a month.

 

I will be updating the topic on a regular basis.  

 

Best regards,
Marcin Ostapowicz

JPLAY & JCAT Founder

 

 

 

 

 

It will be a an interesting thread. Marcin has been doing those things way before me and I've learned from him in the past. In fact, he gets full credit for the Apacer RAM. And I am sure he has other tricks we can learn from him. 

He and I may not agree on power supplies but we don't have to.

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, Topk said:

Are you guys using Toroidy (in case you are willing to share)? Just curious.

 

No, we did not use Toroidy. It's a Noratel transformer from a factory in Sri Lanka. Noratel has a lot of factories, but that particular factory is pretty good. I don't know why but in this application it sounded a little better than the Toroidy. Toroidy Supreme was my second choice. They were very close to a tie. For other applications I would have picked Toroidy but here the Noratel was slightly better. 

[Nenon]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

Which wattage does the transformer have?

 

Specs are complicated, but let's call it 320VA for simplicity. 

[Nenon]

37 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Just curious, since it is less than in the Extreme and the ATX is rated 500VA, did you try two of them?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Matt - it is true, but specs are not everything... and the bigger, the better does not always apply either. 

 

320VA is still an oversized transformer for dual CPU Asus SAGE motherboard. We have a very efficient design here. The Taiko ATX can have as much as 99.3% efficiency. The unregulated LPS (unlike regulated LPS) is very efficient as well, and we also have an active MOSFET rectifier that is super efficient. In the whole design, the transformer is the most inefficient component. 

As a benefit of the high efficiency here we have very little heat dissipation. Keeping things cooler in this case also lead to better sound quality. My fully linear power supply was dissipating close to 100W in heat... not a problem for the heatsinks I used, but it was running as hot as a small ClassA amplifier.

 

It's interesting to see and hear how the transformer and rectifiers interact here. I've tried multiple 600VA transformers and even a 750VA transformer, and I did not like what they did to the high frequencies. The ringing is measurable too. There are several ways to fix that, and I tried some of them, but after all this, the particular transformer I chose sounded best to my ears. A 400VA Toroidy Supreme was also almost as good, so that would be an excellent choice too. 

[Nenon]

23 minutes ago, Exocer said:

What characteristics about the Toroidy did you perceive to place it in 2nd place?

The difference was so small that many people may not even hear it. I don't remember exactly what I heard at the time to be honest. I've been doing these tests for nearly 6 months, and there was a lot of them! I'll provide what worked best for me, and you guys pick it up from here and develop further. That's the beauty of DIY. It's an open design that everyone has access to and can improve. 

[Nenon]

9 minutes ago, exeric2 said:

I probably did not express myself well. I wasn't trying to incorporate all the intricacies of how an ATX power supply handled processes in the motherboard because I know very little about that. I mostly don't care either. I just noted Nenon's finding that an approximately 340 VA transformer sounded best powering the Taiko ATX on an Asus Sage dual processor. All I was looking to do was equate that size transformer to a different motherboard using a different processor. 

 

I don't even know if Nenon Taiko ATX is powering the processors and the MB or if it's just powering the MB alone. That would make a huge difference in the transformer power requirement feeding the Taiko ATX PS that is feeding the whole thing.  I'm trying to get an idea what is required.  To add to the problem I won't even be using that motherboard or processor. If you think that's a trivial problem to figure out the transformer power rating feeding the Taiko ATX then you're a better man than I am.

 

- If you you do passive cooling, I would stick to 300 to 400VA. Chances are the passive cooling will throttle before the power supply.

- If you do active cooling with crazy power hungry processors (120W TDP or more) that are constantly pegged, I am not sure what you need. Maybe 500-600VA. But as I explained 500-600VA did not sound better. Perhaps consult with Taiko first if that's your use case.

 

For most cases, I would stick to the 300-400VA range.

And I highly recommend the Noratel transformer Emile ordered for us. 

I am powering the motherboard and EPS from the Taiko ATX. It sounds better this way. 

[Nenon]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, Marcin_gps said:

 

@Nenon Jay from audiobacon.net has finished his review of OPTIMO 3 DUO today with a comparison to Paul Hynes SR7 (I already know the outcome). I kindly asked him to postpone the publication and extend the review with a comparison to Sean Jacobs DC4 - you will hear from him soon regarding a review sample of the DC4. 

 

I have done a DC4 vs. OPTIMO 3 DUO (a well burned-in unit lended by a friend) comparison. There is no comparison, Marcin. The DC4 is better on every level. Completely different class devices. It takes 5 seconds to hear that. Completely different prices too - and that's what everyone would expect at this price point. I know a few people who own or owned both at some point in time. Their feedback was the same. 
Even the DC3 (the way it is built today, not the ancient unit Terry from Pursuit Perfect System has) is better than the OPTIMO 3 DUO IMO. Although, here someone (typically systems with small bookshelf speakers) may prefer the sound signature of the LT3045 regulators, which I personally don't like. That would indeed be a more fair comparison IMO. 

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, Marcin_gps said:

Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

Absolutely! I am a hard core DIY guy and love these types of comparisons. This particular one is not useful to me as I've already done it, but other people would benefit from it. I've also compared the DC4 to a standard SR7 (and other people have posted about that too). What I have not managed to do is to compare the DC4 to the Paul Hynes custom dual regulated SR7 XLR power supply (which is way better than the standard single regulated SR7). That's the only test I am personally interested in. 

But go ahead with the OPTIMO 3 DUO vs. DC4.  It would be great to arrange that. You guys need to contact Sean Jacobs directly for this.

[Nenon]

6 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Would you mind telling me who lend you the OPTIMO 3 DUO? City and first letter of the name will do if the person who lend you the unit prefers to stay anonymous. 

Feels like you are questioning my integrity again! This would be the third time this week. This would also be the last time I respond to messages of that sort. Going forward messages from you questioning my integrity will be ignored. 

 

This was the first time:

On 4/14/2021 at 5:59 AM, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

 

This was the second time:

On 4/14/2021 at 6:47 AM, Marcin_gps said:

I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

I've built a big network of audiophone friends here and get a lot of stuff to try. The Taiko USB card was the most difficult one to get, but I got that too. I am very mindful of what I post, how much I share, and what people I get involved in my posts. Given your crazy behaviour lately I am hesitant to drop any names. I'd not be surprised if you void their warranty because they sent it to me :). 

BUT... I've had the OPTIMO on two occasions. I didn't take any photos, because it was not something I was planning to post about. I've even replaced the DC connectors on a customer of yours, because the DC 2.5 mm connector you use doesn't make good contact on some devices with DC 2.1 mm connectors. I did find a picture of that:

 

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

No offense, but you are biased and so am I - an independent comparison and live demo A/B would be nice. 

Understood. And I already commented on that. 

 

This is supposed to be a fun hobby! Instead, I have to defend myself from the attacks of manufacturers, because they are not happy about what I have found in my experiments. Let me be clear about this - I put a lot of time, effort, and money into all these experiments I am doing - and they are done purely from passion. I share the things I like and stay away from advertising Sean's products. In fact, this is the first time I've even mentioned that I've done some of these LPS comparisons. I've done many others, but it's not appropriate to share, and I won't. Now let's cut all the drama and get back on topic. As a reminder, since probably that got forgotten, the topic is: "Building a DIY Music Server".