EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Superdad]

41 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Is the B side fixed at 100mb? Have you considered giving the user the option of 1000mb via different firmware version?

 

Yes, the 'B'-side port of the EtherREGEN is fixed at 100Mbps. Firmware can not change that. The limitation is the speed of the isolators and the clocks across the moat.

[GryphonGuy]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

@Superdad I’m awaiting my EtherRegen, in advance of delivery I do have a question. Is the B side fixed at 100mb? Have you considered giving the user the option of 1000mb via different firmware version?

 

Many of us use Euphony, buffer option. At 100mb it’s very slow to load tracks, 1000mb would be clearly more manageable. 
 

appreciate comments 

 

@ASRMichael it would be interesting to know if the buffering option sounds differently to unbuffered (meaning realtime ethernet signals). EtherRegen's realtime signal is so clean and offers such timbrel reality that it would be insightful to know whether the buffering option complements or works against the EtherRegen's realtime properties.

 

I would expect the output from the buffered signal would have the attributes of the buffer and its transmission scheme rather than the ER's.

 

I look forward to your observations.

BTW, 24bit 192kHz ethernet audio only takes 20-22Mbits/sec realtime, so a doddle for even 100Mb/s transmissions.

GG 

[Avalfa]

Perhaps anyone tried this already.

Just recently I bought a Melco Nas, just to use it as Nas. 

 

But than, how to connect it? what I did now was hoomenetwork->Melco network port, Melco playerport-> ER ,a-side( nothing else on a-side), ER b-side-->streamer.

 

Another option would be home network--> ER a-side, ER b-side--> Melco network port, Melco playerport--> streamer.

 

Or , home network--> ER a-side, Melco network port--> ER a-side, ER b-side--> streamer ( and not use the dedicated Melco player port, which seems like the worsts option)

 

I will try all three in time to listen what's sounds best to me. Just curious how others fixed this.

[skatbelt]

6 hours ago, Avalfa said:

Perhaps anyone tried this already.

Just recently I bought a Melco Nas, just to use it as Nas. 

 

But than, how to connect it? what I did now was hoomenetwork->Melco network port, Melco playerport-> ER ,a-side( nothing else on a-side), ER b-side-->streamer.

 

Another option would be home network--> ER a-side, ER b-side--> Melco network port, Melco playerport--> streamer.

 

Or , home network--> ER a-side, Melco network port--> ER a-side, ER b-side--> streamer ( and not use the dedicated Melco player port, which seems like the worsts option)

 

I will try all three in time to listen what's sounds best to me. Just curious how others fixed this.

 

I would try setup 1 and 3 and indeed, let your ears do the judging. Setup 2, I think, is far from optimal. You want to keep noisy computer hardware away from the clean side.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Avalfa said:

Or , home network--> ER a-side, Melco network port--> ER a-side, ER b-side--> streamer.

Your third option above is the one we think will deliver the best and most reliable results.  You of course are free to experiment. 

[Avalfa]

2 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

I would try setup 1 and 3 and indeed, let your ears do the judging. Setup 2, I think, is far from optimal. You want to keep noisy computer hardware away from the clean side.

Wel that's the point a bit why I'm confused, a Melco is not (noisy) "computer hardware" but a dedicated "Nas" ( it can also be used as a steamer itself) for audio purposes, with the player port, which only lets the audio data pass and 'filters' the network traffic in such a way. That it is re-clocked, isolated.

 

But option 2 seemed worst to me too, that's why a didn't try it so far.

 

Option 3 will probably Bypass the benefits of the Melco

 

But I will try all three ways and come back with a result. 

I would have expected more people in this group who use a Melco as a Nas and use a ER, so I was wondering what there  experience with this matter is so far.

 

Thanks for your answer!

[Avalfa]

20 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Your third option above is the one we think will deliver the best and most reliable results.  You of course are free to experiment. 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

I will try and come back with my opinion of what sounded best. See my last answer above, why I'm a bit confused on this situation.

 

The Melco player port filters the data, so only music relevant network traffic is passed through ( isolated and re-clocked), by not using it it seems like not using the benefits of the Melco over any other Nas.

 

So like I said, I will try, and listen.

[davide256]

Does UA have any BIOS configuration recommendations for use of EtherRegen with NUC endpoint? On my DC in I have JS-2, USB out an LPS 1.2 and

OS on an Optane disk, wifi disabled. Toying with getting an Akasa case next just to eliminate fan current interaction.

 

I'm becoming convinced that what all of this does is reduce electrical noise/RFI contaminants that either affect the endpoint USB out processing  or somehow pollute the

USB lead signals causing the downstream USB device to perform sub-optimally.

[nonesup]

I have a Melco N1ZH60-2.  I currently have a USB DAC, so the only option is Router to ER (A) ——- ER (B) to Melco.
 Previously I had Lumin and AQVox and option 2 sounded better than 3 (I never tried 1), but with ER instead of AQVox I may change.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Avalfa said:

The Melco player port filters the data, so only music relevant network traffic is passed through ( isolated and re-clocked)...

Don't be too sure of that. Filters the data? What does that mean?

Isolated and re-clocked?  Don't think the Melco is doing that. It takes a lot of elaborate circuitry to accomplish such. As in the EtherREGEN. 

 

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Does UA have any BIOS configuration recommendations for use of EtherRegen with NUC endpoint?

No we don't, but @lmitche, who builds a lot of custom Audiolinux NUCs for people (including me) via his NUCklehead Audio sideline does have some highly worthwhile tweaks.

 

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

I'm becoming convinced that what all of this does is reduce electrical noise/RFI contaminants that either affect the endpoint USB out processing  or somehow pollute the

USB lead signals causing the downstream USB device to perform sub-optimally.

You are getting warmer. It is about ground-plane perturbations (caused by many things, including leakage currents and phase noise) affecting the clock thresholds in various receiver chips along the entire chain, up to an including the DAC.

 

[Avalfa]

23 hours ago, nonesup said:

I have a Melco N1ZH60-2.  I currently have a USB DAC, so the only option is Router to ER (A) ——- ER (B) to Melco.
 Previously I had Lumin and AQVox and option 2 sounded better than 3 (I never tried 1), but with ER instead of AQVox I may change.

This is from the Melco website,

"Unlike PC based systems, Melco has a dedicated PLAYER port. This allows connection directly to the network Streamer or Player without any data switch in the signal path which would damage the music data.

This direct connection concept we call Direct Streaming Music – DSM – and it is unique to Melco as in conjunction with the Ethernet purifier between the LAN and PLAYER ports DSM ensures that the Player receives only clean and accurate data, all packets are timed with low-jitter precision and all unwanted traffic is blocked" 

 

Now I know ER is not "any Ethernet switch" so with and other switch I would stay with option 2.

Now I decided 1, because the possible benefits of the player port come before it enters the ER, I want ER b Side direct at my streamer.

Option 3 is worth trying 

For now I will listen for s few days to option 1, and than change.

[davide256]

On 2/20/2020 at 12:38 PM, Superdad said:

...

 

You are getting warmer. It is about ground-plane perturbations (caused by many things, including leakage currents and phase noise) affecting the clock thresholds in various receiver chips along the entire chain, up to an including the DAC.

 

How can one assess if an endpoint device has taken this into account in design? Are there obvious "tells" that should rule something out?

Already thinking about building a "next gen" endpoint with better USB and Ethernet  hardware.

[ASRMichael]

I’m awaiting my EtherRegen, due in the next two weeks. 
 

I’m new to STP fiber, I would appreciate if someone can recommend the following?

 

- 10m fiber cable

-  Ethernet to Fiber media convertor

-  2 transceivers

 

My network when finished ee will look like this. 

 

Modem - Router - Fiber Convertor-Fiber cable-EtherRegen-Ethernet-Server

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

I’m awaiting my EtherRegen, due in the next two weeks. 
 

I’m new to STP fiber, I would appreciate if someone can recommend the following?

 

- 10m fiber cable

-  Ethernet to Fiber media convertor

-  2 transceivers

 

My network when finished ee will look like this. 

 

Modem - Router - Fiber Convertor-Fiber cable-EtherRegen-Ethernet-Server

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Fiber cable - https://www.fibertronics-store.com/LC-to-LC-Multimode-Fiber-Optic-Patch-Cable-MM-50-10Gb-OM3-10M-PC-KK7D3AV10M.htm

 

FMC - Sonore opticalModule ($$) or TP-Link MC220L ($)

 

Transceivers - Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL (search eBay)

[Cable Monkey]

1G SFP SX Multimode Mini-Gbic Module, 1000Base-SX SFP LC Transceiver, Compatible for Cisco GLC-SX-MMD, Meraki, Ubiquiti UF-MM-1G, Netgear AGM731F, D-Link DEM-311GT, TP-Link, Zyxel, Mikrotik https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01DD0Z7D8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_1MkuEbPGVAKTJ
Gigabit Ethernet Fiber Media Converter with a 1Gb SFP SX LC Multimode Module, 10/100/1000M RJ45 to 1000Base-SX, up to 550m, with a British Power Adapter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBSZJL3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_QQkuEbJD4VNXD
10Gtek OM3 LC to LC Duplex Fiber Patch Cable 10m(33ft), 50/125 Multimode UPC Polish LSZH, Application for 1G SFP, 10G SFP+, Media Converter, Length: 1m to 50m, 5-Year Warranty https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01DCYHCA6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_qSkuEb4KNY7F4
Buy one of each. The media converter comes with a SFP module of the same type.

[skatbelt]

On 2/20/2020 at 4:18 PM, Avalfa said:

Wel that's the point a bit why I'm confused, a Melco is not (noisy) "computer hardware" but a dedicated "Nas" ( it can also be used as a steamer itself) for audio purposes, with the player port, which only lets the audio data pass and 'filters' the network traffic in such a way. That it is re-clocked, isolated.

 

But option 2 seemed worst to me too, that's why a didn't try it so far.

 

Option 3 will probably Bypass the benefits of the Melco

 

But I will try all three ways and come back with a result. 

I would have expected more people in this group who use a Melco as a Nas and use a ER, so I was wondering what there  experience with this matter is so far.

 

Thanks for your answer!

 

I know Melco devices are especially designed for audio purposes but nonetheless, they have build in hdd/sdd's and al lot of other components that are (potential) noise-injectors. My approach is to keep the streamer hardware as minimalistic as possible. In my case a dCS Network Bridge but there are a lot of other options. I think it is more wise to invest in isolation and clocking instead of paying a lot of money for expensive servers that are so expensive because they have to fight the evil that is caused by themselves in the first place. Does this make sense?

[octaviars]

3 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

My approach is to keep the streamer hardware as minimalistic as possible.

 

I use the same approach.

 

I used to have thoughts about Melco and Innuos but decided to go with a NUC with Roon ROCK in a Akasa case.

 

Today I run fiber (LX 1310 SM modules 10km and Corning ClearCurve fiber) to eR directly from Ubiquiti Router. NUC on A-side and my dCS Network bridge on the B-side. 

 

The latest HD Plex PSU with 4 seperate rails power ISP fiberconverter, router, eR and NUC. 

 

This setup I'm really happy with and streaming Qobuz sounds really good on my TAD system. 

 

 

 

 

[Avalfa]

4 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

I know Melco devices are especially designed for audio purposes but nonetheless, they have build in hdd/sdd's and al lot of other components that are (potential) noise-injectors. My approach is to keep the streamer hardware as minimalistic as possible. In my case a dCS Network Bridge but there are a lot of other options. I think it is more wise to invest in isolation and clocking instead of paying a lot of money for expensive servers that are so expensive because they have to fight the evil that is caused by themselves in the first place. Does this make sense?

It makes perfect sense!😃 couldn't agree more.

I just needed a Nas and wanted one that is silent  (physical). And fits next to the gear, so I have the possibilityto  just use it in a closed network setup in the future maybe even without www access, (I only use local file playback).

 

Coming back to my question, by now I tried all Three possibilities. 1 and 3, I couldn't  hear any difference, while option 2 as I expected was worse sound wise. Sloppy bass, blurred soundstage, hissy highs. ( All benefits of the ER  basically gone) .

 

I'm back to option one by now, as I started, perhaps be future I'll try again more extended listening between 1 and 3

 

Everybody thanks for the answers

[Avalfa]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

I use the same approach.

 

I used to have thoughts about Melco and Innuos but decided to go with a NUC with Roon ROCK in a Akasa case.

 

Today I run fiber (LX 1310 SM modules 10km and Corning ClearCurve fiber) to eR directly from Ubiquiti Router. NUC on A-side and my dCS Network bridge on the B-side. 

 

The latest HD Plex PSU with 4 seperate rails power ISP fiberconverter, router, eR and NUC. 

 

This setup I'm really happy with and streaming Qobuz sounds really good on my TAD system. 

 

 

 

 

I try to keep it basic as well.

 

Two things I don't use and have no intentions to. Roon, and Streaming services.

 

For me it's just a Melco as a Nas with my music files, ER,using only 1 a-side port and and the b-side to my streamer (audionet DNP). And of course an Amp and speakers with done cables to connect everything.

The music library is managed with a combination of minimserver on the melco and the audionet app on phone/tablet which also physically is a remote for the build in pre-amp.

That's it

[nonesup]

Something important Avalfa;  Do you use Twonky or Minimserver?

[Avalfa]

7 hours ago, nonesup said:

Something important Avalfa;  Do you use Twonky or Minimserver?

Minimserver 2.05

[nonesup]

Okay.

For me Twonky is inferior to Minim as playback software.  But as music library management software, Twonky is simply a disaster.

[Roasty]

hey guys. have ordered and am awaiting delivery of an EtherRegen. before it arrives, could someone suggest where to place it in my chain? at present it looks like this:

 

wall outlet > linksys gigabit switch > Intel Nuc > USB cable > Singxer SU-6 > IIS cable to dac

 

should the EtherRegen go just before the gigabit switch, or after? (apologies if this has been asked multiple times before..)

[elan120]

8 minutes ago, Roasty said:

hey guys. have ordered and am awaiting delivery of an EtherRegen. before it arrives, could someone suggest where to place it in my chain? at present it looks like this:

 

wall outlet > linksys gigabit switch > Intel Nuc > USB cable > Singxer SU-6 > IIS cable to dac

 

should the EtherRegen go just before the gigabit switch, or after? (apologies if this has been asked multiple times before..)

Are there other items plugged into the existing GB switch?  There are 4 inputs on the A side of ER, so if there are no more than 4 items plugged into GB switch, ER can just replace the existing GB switch.

[bailyhill]

The manual and Uptone website suggests the B side as close to the dac as possible.  If you have more items plugged into the BS switch, you can cascade it with the ER.  I got best results cascading the classic Cisco 2960 and the ER.  I plugged several things

into the Cisco and cascade that to the ER to the A side, and from the B side directly to my DAC,

 

Experiment a bit, as all systems are different.