EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[JohnSwenson]

This is where it gets complicated, you do NOT want the DC- to be the same for both supplies, this bypasses the moat, giving up much of the goodness of the ER. The connecting the DC- to safety ground should ONLY be done for the most upstream ER. Doing for both again shorts out the moat. Whether you need the safety ground on the upstream ER depends on if there are other things plugged into the A side. If nothing else is plugged in, then don't bother with connecting DC- to safety ground. You CAN but I would not do it if it will cost more or take extra time etc.

 

John S.

[Ponkbutler]

2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is where it gets complicated, you do NOT want the DC- to be the same for both supplies, this bypasses the moat, giving up much of the goodness of the ER. The connecting the DC- to safety ground should ONLY be done for the most upstream ER. Doing for both again shorts out the moat. Whether you need the safety ground on the upstream ER depends on if there are other things plugged into the A side. If nothing else is plugged in, then don't bother with connecting DC- to safety ground. You CAN but I would not do it if it will cost more or take extra time etc.

 

John S.

Many thanks, John. Sorry to come straight back (and with three short questions), but whereas my ears work nicely, my brain is another matter.

 

So, if I understand correctly, I should be asking for a PSU on which the two rails are isolated and floating, is that right?
 

That’s the configuration of the JS-2, isn’t it?

 

The first ER is the only thing plugged into the A side of the second ER, so no need to touch the earth, have I understood that correctly?

 

Thanks so much for the great support.

[bailyhill]

I am 1 month in on my ER.  Its sounding great driving my Merridian Ultra Dac.    My system is Router in the LR, a floor below the Music Room.  I run a 15 foot copper ethernet cable upstairs.  It feeds my Cisco Catalyst 2960G switch, which also has the Nucleus+ and Unity Core connected via copper ethernet cables.  Then a single copper ethernet cable connects the Cisco to the A side of the ER.  Then a single copper ethernet cable connects the B side of the ER to the DAC.  Sounds very nice.  

 

In learning a little more, I have a question.  If we are trying to eliminate noise, it seems like I should put an Optical Rendu at the Router.  Then run 15 feet of Optical Cable upstairs to the Cisco which has an optical SPF I believe its called.  This would minimize any transmitted as well as conducted noise on the Ethernet signal. 

 

As an alternate, I could also deploy a second ER replacing the Cisco--running it backwards to input the optical from the OR to the B side of the ER and then taking the A side output of this ER and running it to the A side of the existing ER, and then connecting the B side of the ER to the DAC.  

 

It might seem over the top, but at the level of a Meridian Ultra Dac or a Naim ND555, we don't want anything contaminating those units.  Same can be said for Brinkman, DcS, MSB etc.  Comments and Suggestions?

[BlueDL]

12 minutes ago, bailyhill said:

I am 1 month in on my ER.  Its sounding great driving my Merridian Ultra Dac.    My system is Router in the LR, a floor below the Music Room.  I run a 15 foot copper ethernet cable upstairs.  It feeds my Cisco Catalyst 2960G switch, which also has the Nucleus+ and Unity Core connected via copper ethernet cables.  Then a single copper ethernet cable connects the Cisco to the A side of the ER.  Then a single copper ethernet cable connects the B side of the ER to the DAC.  Sounds very nice.  

 

In learning a little more, I have a question.  If we are trying to eliminate noise, it seems like I should put an Optical Rendu at the Router.  Then run 15 feet of Optical Cable upstairs to the Cisco which has an optical SPF I believe its called.  This would minimize any transmitted as well as conducted noise on the Ethernet signal. 

 

As an alternate, I could also deploy a second ER replacing the Cisco--running it backwards to input the optical from the OR to the B side of the ER and then taking the A side output of this ER and running it to the A side of the existing ER, and then connecting the B side of the ER to the DAC.  

 

It might seem over the top, but at the level of a Meridian Ultra Dac or a Naim ND555, we don't want anything contaminating those units.  Same can be said for Brinkman, DcS, MSB etc.  Comments and Suggestions?

Hi,

Maybe I’ve misunderstood, but do you mean ‘OpticalModule’ rather than ‘OpticalRendu’?

Alex has said to me (email) that it’s better to keep things simple and run good quality CAT6 or 6A to the ER from your router - rather than over-complicate things. Having said that, I run an optical feed from my router as it’s small diameter and can be easily hidden under carpet, and I doubt it’d do any harm if you were to run an optical feed from the lower room to the upstairs listening room. If so, I suspect a standard low-cost FMC would be enough (downstairs), but you could try an OpticalModule for ‘peace of mind’, then go straight into the A side SFP of the ER alongside the Nucleus+ and Naim Uniti Core. The B side of the ER then remains as is. In this case, you would need to earth the 12V supply to the ER back to mains earth - using the ground screw, as you would be using multiple A side sockets.

If you want to keep the Cisco ‘in circuit’, connect the router optical feed as input to an SFP port - rather than deploy another OpticalModule to revert back to wired ethernet first. I suggest that as the Cisco is the weakest link in the chain anyway and might undo any ‘good work’ (noise reduction) gained from the OM upstream converting back to wired ethernet.

[pl_svn]

SFP is on A side and B side only has *one* 100MB copper port

[bailyhill]

Ah yes, I have that wrong.  I will mod the drwg and repost.  Thanks for that.  I do optical astronomy all day and night, but combining optical and music is new to me.  

[BlueDL]

Yeah, I think your diagram works if you merely transpose the A and B side labelling on the first ER. If I’ve understood correctly (admittedly, it’s a big ‘if’) from previous discussion, you won’t need to ground-shunt the d.c. supplies used to power either ER as you are only using one A-side port on the second ER. Personally speaking, I’d probably use just the one ER and ground the casing to mains earth, as I’ve read that the isolation between A-side ports is very good, and the Moat will ensure the B-side output is very ‘clean’.

[MrKlutz]

I've ordered an ER. But would like some advice: today running an Auralic Aries connected to my router (separate for music streaming only) via two TP-Link MC210CS for isolation (via a 10m long fiber-cable). But the MC210 is SC and I'm therefore wondering whether you would recommend an SC-LC adapter/cable to feed the ER directly, or run via the two MC210s and instead add the ER downstream from the last MC210? Have little technical competence, just good intentions to get the best sound - so appreciate any advice.

[bailyhill]

Here is a revised system diagram.  Hope that its correct.  I have also designated the second ER to be optional.  Comments welcome.

[elan120]

The revised diagram will work.  If you have not yet acquired all the Cat5e or 6a Ethernet cables, another consideration is Cable Matters SFTP Cat8 Ethernet cable.  In my system, it performs quite well compare to other cables from no name to some that is 10x more in cost.  There are few well written reviews and comments on this cable from other threads, and this is one example.

[Lobbster]

@bailyhill Have you tested adding/swapping the Cisco in and out of your theoretical chain and seeing if it makes a SQ difference. If yes, buying a 2nd ER could improve things further.

[bailyhill]

Yes I tried the ER alone and with the Cisco.  Much preferred the sound of the pair.  I am thinking to get a second ER, but also thinking

of using the optical cable from the router, via the system diagram above.  I am kind of waiting to hear John or others weigh in before 

taking that plunge.

 

Current using the Cisco first, then the ER.  Using wire Ethernet to connect all.

[Lobbster]

7 minutes ago, bailyhill said:

Current using the Cisco first, then the ER.  Using wire Ethernet to connect all.

You can get a couple of SFP transceivers and optical cable for the Cisco/ER combo to play with while you wait for ER No 2. You shouldn't need any other Optical converters.

[Lobbster]

@bailyhill With your current combo, and especially after adding a 2nd ER, optical should be redundant. But if you want to chase that rabbit (like so many of us), you can get in for less than $30.

2 of these https://www.fs.com/products/11774.html

pick a cable https://www.fs.com/c/os2-9-125-single-mode-duplex-897?lc-lc=15&upc-upc=16

A more expensive option with some hi end audio early adopters is to use these transceivers, same cable or a better Corning ClearCurve single mode duplex cable with LC to LC connectors

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0747WZ8LZ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

Good luck!

[Lobbster]

I may have spoken too soon. I tried hooking up my Cisco 2960L optical direct to the ER optical and no connection. The Cisco is also connected to ROCK & Main Switch with separate copper cables. Not sure if I need to set something up in the cpanel. I'll RTFM later. My goal is to feed the Cisco with optical from Main Switch, then send optical direct from Cisco to ER. I need another transceiver to make a 2nd optical connection between the Cisco & the Main Switch. I have an older model Cisco 2960 with single SFP port I can test as well. More to follow...

 

The Cisco previously received the optical signal from my Main Switch, then copper to DAC without issue - plug and play. The ER inserted into this spot - plug and play. Thus, the Cisco kids are redundant unless I can find them a higher purpose.

 

Can 2 ER's support a direct optical connection or is that a function of the transceiver?

[Lobbster]

The Cisco 2960's cannot make direct optical connection to the ER. The SFP slots are for Uplink to the network. I tested both 2960-8TC-L V.3 and 2960-8TS-LL.

So the Server can be isolated on the Cisco and optically linked to an upstream switch/router. The ER can either connect to the up stream switch optically or copper direct to Cisco. There's lots of combinations available for testing, just not on New Years eve.

 

Happy New Years everyone!

[bailyhill]

Hello Lobbster--thanks for the info and feedback.  You posted that "The Cisco 2960's cannot make direct optical connection to the ER. The SFP slots are for Uplink to the network."    That is good to know about the Cisco's.  Can you explain what you mean by the SFP slots are for uplink to the network?  Not challenging this, just wanting to learn what this means.  I guess I will have to try the 2 Er's and maybe the OM?  

 

 

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Lobbster said:

The Cisco 2960's cannot make direct optical connection to the ER.

 

That is not correct. Myself and many other have made direct connection between Cisco Catalyst 2960 (and other Cisco models) and the EtherREGEN via optical SFP.

Of course the SFP modules used at both ends and the cable all have to match in types.

[rickca]

23 minutes ago, bailyhill said:

The SFP slots are for Uplink to the network

According to the Cisco documentation, the SFP slot can be configured as a normal port (rather than an uplink).  I haven't bothered to read the manual to figure out exactly how to do this.

[Jud]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

According to the Cisco documentation, the SFP slot can be configured as a normal port (rather than an uplink).  I haven't bothered to read the manual to figure out exactly how to do this.

 

Plug in SFP modules and an optical cable that work with Cisco and each other. That's it.

[Lobbster]

Thanks, I'll keep playing with the Ciscos. I have no problem with them receiving optical. SFP's and cable is the same for the tests and has been functioning fine in my system for months.

 

I didn't see anything in the docs re enabling SFP options, it's supposed to be automatic. I would say the information online regarding uplink ports isn't clear and leads me to believe there is a difference between an uplink and regular/normal port.

[Lobbster]

On 12/31/2019 at 5:22 PM, bailyhill said:

Can you explain what you mean by the SFP slots are for uplink to the network?  Not challenging this, just wanting to learn what this means.  I guess I will have to try the 2 Er's and maybe the OM?  

 

I'm not sure I have enough expertise to answer for certain, and would rather defer to those who've already had success. Uplink basically means it links to an upstream router or switch leaving the other ports for use. What doesn't make sense to me is the older 2960's have a combo port (RJ45 & SFP) and the docs don't refer to it as an uplink port, the newer version does. So it must be me. I'm waiting for a couple new transceivers, so hopefully this automagically works. If it doesn't, I'm feeding ER with optical from the main switch anyway, I'm not sure there's enough upside in my system to chase this. 

 

Here's a Cisco link referring to Uplink vs Normal ports https://community.cisco.com/t5/switching/uplink-ports-vs-normal-ports/td-p/1781011

 

 

[Ponkbutler]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:46 AM, JohnSwenson said:

This is where it gets complicated, you do NOT want the DC- to be the same for both supplies, this bypasses the moat, giving up much of the goodness of the ER. The connecting the DC- to safety ground should ONLY be done for the most upstream ER. Doing for both again shorts out the moat. Whether you need the safety ground on the upstream ER depends on if there are other things plugged into the A side. If nothing else is plugged in, then don't bother with connecting DC- to safety ground. You CAN but I would not do it if it will cost more or take extra time etc.

Would there be any problem powering both EtherRegens off a single (floating ground) rail?

[Confused]

I am currently using my EtherRegen with a 10MHz reference clock signal from my Mutec REF10.  This works fine and sounds good, so no issues.

 

I would like to try a quick comparison between using the REF10 and using the EtherRegen's internal clock.  So far, when I have swapped between the internal and external clock, I have taking the cautious approach of powering down the EtherRegen, switching between INT / EXT clock, then powering up again.  An easier approach would be to simply switch between the two by swapping the INT / EXT switch whilst the EtherRegen is powered up and running.  Is it OK to do this?  I am a little worried the EtherRegen might not like this for some reason and I might junk something, but maybe I am being over cautious here? 

[Dutch]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

I am currently using my EtherRegen with a 10MHz reference clock signal from my Mutec REF10.  This works fine and sounds good, so no issues.

 

I would like to try a quick comparison between using the REF10 and using the EtherRegen's internal clock.  So far, when I have swapped between the internal and external clock, I have taking the cautious approach of powering down the EtherRegen, switching between INT / EXT clock, then powering up again.  An easier approach would be to simply switch between the two by swapping the INT / EXT switch whilst the EtherRegen is powered up and running.  Is it OK to do this?  I am a little worried the EtherRegen might not like this for some reason and I might junk something, but maybe I am being over cautious here? 

Quote from the manual below. You’ve done it the right way thus far.

 

—

In order for the EtherREGEN to correctly program its clock synthesizer chip to use either the Internal (Crystek XO) or External clock as reference, the CLOCK INT/EXT switch must be set BEFORE DC power is applied. Programming will not occur if the CLOCK switch is moved after DC power is applied.
The sequence to utilize an external reference clock with the EtherREGEN is:
1) Remove DC power from the EtherREGEN.
2) Set the CLOCK INT/EXT switch to the EXT position.
3) Connect a BNC clock cable from a 10MHz reference clock. 4) Power on the reference clock.
5) Apply DC power to the EtherREGEN.