Jump to content
IGNORED

EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread


Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, mourip said:

I am considering an ER but am not certain of its best use in my setup. I am a bit late to this thread and have skimmed looking for a match for my own system but did not really see one.

 

I have a Roon server PC (internal library and Qobuz streaming via the Internet) with a NUC endpoint out to the rest of the system. My server has a JCAT Femto ethernet card in bridged mode so that one port goes directly to the NUC and the second is attached to a small Cisco switch with some other non-audio ethernet connections and of course Internet/LAN access.

 

I have tried very hard to have a "clean" side and a "dirty" side to isolate my system. Until recently I used two FMCs to isolate my server from the LAN. After doing some experimentation I found that a straight ethernet cable sounded better than the fiber in spite of my theories.

 

When the ER became available I figured that it would be perfect to isolate my server from the LAN. After reading this thread it now sounds like I should use it between my Roon server and my NUC endpoint (I even have a REF10 to use). I guess that I could buy two ERs however I am not sure my CEO will like that 🙂

 

Hi Paul:

 

Thanks for your inquiry.  Yes, the proper placement of the EtherREGEN is with its lone 'B'-side port directly feeding your DAC-attached endpoint--with a short cable--which in your case is your NUC. That is the most important step. Then attach to the 'A'-side ports two cables: a single feed from your network, and a single feed from your server's JCAT Femto card.

You will no longer need or want to do use the two-port "bridging" of the JCAT card. Use just one jack of the JCAT.

 

If physically more convenient, you can instead connect your music server to the same upstream switch that is providing the LAN feed (to the EtherREGEN).  But do remove the cheap FMCs (not surprised they did not sound as good as your direct connection with JCAT card bridged) and try to avoid having multiple switches upstream unless you are connecting your server directly to an 'A' side EtherREGEN port. People running Roon sometimes have issues if their Roon Core server is connected to far upstream of the EtherREGEN.

 

Hope you will give EtherREGEN a try. We think you will be surprised. You can read many reports of JCAT Femto owners adding and reporting a big uptick in SQ. 

I also know that you are an AOIP user, and there are indeed now a nice handful of those (Focusrite/Dante, Merging/AES67/Ravenna) with EtherREGENs.

 

All the best,

--Alex C.

Link to comment

Hi Gang,

Sorry I've been away since my last post...I've been VERY busy my first articles for The Absolute Sound. 

 

Just wanted to update my previous post about the ER:

 

I've now obtained a 10Gtek 850nM optical transceiver, the one that Alex and Uptone Audio recommends.

 

It worked upon first install and has been functioning perfectly since. No dropouts, and to date, no issues with it the optical transceiver disconnecting from barely touching or moving the ER. 

 

So far, so good, and I'll update my observations and final thoughts with time as I use this new optical transceiver. 

 

Cheers, gang. 

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

Link to comment

A short question on powering the ER,

 

using a DC Y-cable to power both the ER (12V/0.8A) and a Netgear GS308 (12V/0.5A) from a single Paul Hynes SR4 (12V/2A) is this a sensible thing to do or not (interaction of both switches?)? The Netgear GS308 is connected on the A-side of the ER.

 

Kind regards,

Robert

 

Link to comment
On 11/18/2019 at 7:32 PM, Superdad said:

While the galvanic isolation, low noise power supplies, and low-jitter oscillators common to the very fine Sonore and UpTone products are important and comparable, the EtherREGEN is about more than that. Its active differential isolation moat and ultra-low-jitter reclocking flops aim to erase the phase-noise fingerprint of upstream clocks--which cause ground- and power-plane noise on the board and inside the chips. This is what @JohnSwenson is gearing up to directly measure. And his explanation of the mechanisms will be part of the white paper which will accompany those measures.

Until such time as we are ready to publish that, all we can go on as proof of the concept are the many positive experiences which EtherREGEN users are having--including a number of opticalModule and opticalRendu owners who have posted in detail about the synergy between each of these Swenson designs.

Hi John and Alex,

Any word on this (hopefully forthcoming) white paper? Its been two months now since this was posted. Personally, this white paper would be an excellent reference for me to show to friends and fellow audiophiles about the John's discoveries of the role of high-impedance leakage currents on clock phase noise, and the benefits that ER brings in addressing this. 

 

Cheers and thanks!

Digital: Mac Mini/Roon Core/Optical Module->long run of fiber->EtherREGEN->SOtM UltraNeo->Schiit Gumby DAC. Shunyata Sigma Ethernet/Alpha USB Amplification: First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0 preamp, LP70S amp Speakers: Harbeth 30.2/Power/Cables: Shunyata Everest 8000, Shunyata Sigma XC and NR, Alpha XC and NR, & Venom 14 Digital PCs, Alpha V2 ICs and SPs.  

 

 

Link to comment
On 1/5/2020 at 1:49 PM, Puma Cat said:

Consistent product robustness problems with the the SFP Cage and Optical Transceiver on the EtherREGEN:

 

Since I received my ER back in October, I've experienced consistent problems with the SFP cage and optical transceiver on EtherREGEN. I am using the Sonore SystemOptique-certified 850 nM optical transceiver (purchased from Sonore) in the ER's SFP cage. 

 

My experience is that even if barely move, or in some cases, even touch the ER or the Tripp-Lite OM-1 specification optical cable that is plugged into the OT, the OT almost always disconnects in the SFP cage, and then I usually spend a considerable period of time trying to get the digital audio steam from my server to connect.

 

Today, after placing my digital streaming front end a nice maple board, I just spent >90 minutes trying to get ER to connect up. To say it was exasperating was putting it mildly, I was just about to give up and spend the afternoon listening to LPs when it "connected" again and I could stream my files to my SOtM SMS-200 UltraNeo. 🙀

 

Back when was I was working as Design for Six Sigma (DFSS) Master Black Belt, teaching product development principles to scientists and engineers for one of the leading biotech companies in the world, there was a key quality attribute that I spent a lot of time drilling home: the concept of a ROBUST product or system-level ROBUSTNESS.

 

A "ROBUST" product is defined as:  "Function performs on-target with minimal variation in the presence of NOISE factors."

 

The noise factor here is the optical transceiver module, and presently, the SFP cage/OT interface of ER is not robust to the optical transceiver utilized.

 

ER should work in a statistically robust manner with any industry-standard specification 850nM, 1000-Base SM MMX fiber optical transceiver, and in my experience, with the number of times that I (and for reference, a good friend that has also an ER) have had the problems described above, this is not the case. 

 

I know folks will chime in, here..."Oh, don't use that optical transceiver, use this OT, instead."

 

Look, gang, I get it, and I'll have to do that, I guess, in order to have a consistent and less exasperating customer experience. 

 

But, so that I am maximally clear here: that is not the point of this post.

 

The truth of the world is this: There are NO, and I mean, NO perfect manufacturing processes or perfect products, from any manufacturer in any industry. None. They do not exist.

 

The Japense have a very specific term for their philosophy about designing and manufacturing products: KAIZEN (Change for the Better, ref here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen)

 

The key point about kaizen is to work with humility and open-ness with a spirit of "continuous improvment" so that overall product quality increases continually over time. When product quality improves, the customer's ability to use the product and their experience improves, and society as a whole improves, too. 

 

Understanding this key principle with humility rather than indignation is the basis for one of the highest quality manufacturing systems the the world, The Toyota Production System (reference: The Toyota Way by James Likert).

 

This post was written in the spirit of kaizen with respect to helping Uptone Audio developing what is truly an excellent product into an higher-quality one, specifically with respect to product robustness. One that will realize its full and considerable potential all the while providing 1) a function performs on-target with minimal variation in the presence of noise factors and 2) a satisfactory customer experience.

 

Right now, its not doing that. 

 

Improving ER's "robustness quality attributes" will not only improve the customer experience, it will also lower service, support, repair, and warranty costs, a lower COPQ (Cost of Poor Quality), and result in greater profitability for Uptone Audio. And that's a good thing; I sincerely want Uptone Audio to be maximally profitable and successful as they bring a great deal of innovation and value to the audio industry. And, they're really nice guys, too. 

 

Alex, happy to work with you and Uptone Audio as a professional DFSS resource regarding the SFP/OT robustness quality attribute in any way I can. Feel free to reach out. 

 

all my best, 

Stephen

 

On 1/13/2020 at 1:42 PM, Puma Cat said:

I've now obtained a 10Gtek 850nM optical transceiver, the one that Alex and Uptone Audio recommends.

 

"Obtained" as in I bought one for you and had Amazon send it you via next day Prime? :D

 

On 1/13/2020 at 1:42 PM, Puma Cat said:

It worked upon first install and has been functioning perfectly since. No dropouts, and to date, no issues with it the optical transceiver disconnecting from barely touching or moving the ER.

 

I guess the "robustness quality attributes" criticisms you eloquently communicated really apply more to the variation in SFP transceivers that Sonore is supplying--as those are the only ones yet reported to be finicky in the EtherREGEN's SFP cage. 9_9

Link to comment
On 1/12/2020 at 1:09 PM, mourip said:

 very hard to have a "clean" side and a "dirty" side to isolate my system. Until recently I used two FMCs to isolate my server from the LAN. After doing some experimentation I found that a straight ethernet cable sounded better than the fiber in spite of my theories.

That is very interesting.....

Link to comment
On 1/5/2020 at 4:22 PM, Superdad said:

 

Just now learning about fiber.  Would this patch cable work with Alex's suggested SFP?  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5796DQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1

 

Thanks.

Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3    

Cables:  Kubala-Sosna    Power management:  Shunyata    Room:  Vicoustics  

 

“Nature is pleased with simplicity.”  Isaac Newton

"As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed."  Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man

Link to comment
2 hours ago, PYP said:

Just now learning about fiber.  Would this patch cable work with Alex's suggested SFP?  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5796DQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1

 

Sure, that cable will work fine. It is multimode with LC connectors, matching the SFP transceivers we reference.  Here is a simple and informative page to read to get up to speed on the basics of common fiber optic cables:

https://www.fibercables.com/pages/picking-out-fiber-optic-cable

Link to comment

I'll receive my ER next week. (Very curious, even nervous.... I'll report, promised).
To prepare I have a question: I try to make my system invisible in the night. So I turn off all the various displays and mask LEDs with tape. But this might be difficult with the usual very small LEDs indicating network traffic on the ethernet ports. Is there any way to turn them off? Or has anyone else find another way to hide them (besides permanent black marker, which I try to avoid)? Thanks a lot for any help/recommendation.

Link to comment

Regarding LED's - you might give these a try: https://www.lightdims.com/index.php

Otherwise your hardware store is likely to have blue painter's tape which may or may not stick very long on the surface, especially if it gets really warm.

Steve Schaffer

Grimm MU1 / dCS Vivaldi Upsampler - APEX DAC - Clock / Spectral DMC-30SV preamp / Spectral Anniversary monoblocks / Wilson Audio Alexia V /  Wilson Lōkē subs / Shunyata Everest / Shunyata Omega interconnects, power cables, Ethernet / Shunyata Altaira / Uptone EtherREGEN switch / Cybershaft OP21A-D / Uptone JS2 LPS / HRS racks - Vortex footers - damping plates

Link to comment

Yep, lightdims!

macmini M1>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu (clones lpsu>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2x naquadria 12” passive subs.

Link to comment

One question I'd like answered is this: a few active speakers (D&D, Devialet Phantoms...) sync L/R via their ethernet ports, but each speaker is connected to a switch, not directly to each other. I know that reversing an ER will work here. In on the "B" port and out to two speakers connected to the "A" side. Any comments on this? Will using two "A" ports reduce the effectiveness of the 'moat' in any way?

The other way to do this is use two ERs and interlink the "A" sides of the two plus one link to the network. The two "B" ports connect to one speaker each. Has anyone tried this? Will it be (much) better than a single reversed ER? Of course the cost will double. Two ERs with separate power supplies can easily become 2-3000 USD.

Link to comment
7 hours ago, ogs said:

One question I'd like answered is this: a few active speakers (D&D, Devialet Phantoms...) sync L/R via their ethernet ports, but each speaker is connected to a switch, not directly to each other. I know that reversing an ER will work here. In on the "B" port and out to two speakers connected to the "A" side. Any comments on this? Will using two "A" ports reduce the effectiveness of the 'moat' in any way?

The other way to do this is use two ERs and interlink the "A" sides of the two plus one link to the network. The two "B" ports connect to one speaker each. Has anyone tried this? Will it be (much) better than a single reversed ER? Of course the cost will double. Two ERs with separate power supplies can easily become 2-3000 USD.

This configuration will work very well. As long as the packet flow is going from B to two A ports this is fine. The problem occurs when you have  something like A NAS or router connected to the A side AND an endpoint on the A side. Then the timing of the packets coming into the A side can affect the timing going out on another A side port. If two A ports are going out with data coming from the B port this can't happen.

 

John S.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This configuration will work very well. As long as the packet flow is going from B to two A ports this is fine. The problem occurs when you have  something like A NAS or router connected to the A side AND an endpoint on the A side. Then the timing of the packets coming into the A side can affect the timing going out on another A side port. If two A ports are going out with data coming from the B port this can't happen.

 

John S.

Thanks John!

Good to know I won't have to use more than one ER in a configuration like this.

Link to comment

I m sorry to report that I ran into another issue on using ER.
 

All my previous issue regarding audio drop out have been resolved by the firmware update. 
 

my current setup is connecting my network on A side and DAC connected player on the B side. And the SQ is great!
 

However in my case the ER is replacing my previous so-called audio grade switch and there’s another Blu-ray player used for video streaming. Therefore after using ER the Blu-ray was connected to A side as well, and my video started to experience frame dropping, usually quite a few times during the whole movie and it’s really annoying. At the beginning I thought it might be my blu-ray problem since it’s kinda old and I even started to look for a replacement. 
however, after same dropping frame issue happened today I decided to try my old 100 base T switch again to get my wife’s permission on buying a new Blu-ray.....  And you guess right , everything became smooth and perfect. I tried 5-6 movies and high definition documentaries and not a single frame dropped. 
 

does anyone have experienced similar issue and what’d be your suggestions?

 

 Thanks very much in advance for your help!

Link to comment

You can let your old switch stay in place just before the EtherRegen and connect the Blue Ray to this switch (then the old switch to the A side of the EtherRegen with an unshielded ethernet cable). With this kind of choice you will probably have better SQ with the use of a linear power supply with this old switch (for the network health AND for the audio gears connected to the same power line).

MSB Reference> Ypsilon Aelius 2 >Vivid G1 or Andra3

HQPlayer >Diretta DST>Holo May>Holo Serene>Kinki ex-m7>Leedh e2 glass or DIY (Davis/Heil).

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, willyhot said:

my current setup is connecting my network on A side and DAC connected player on the B side. And the SQ is great!
...
however, after same dropping frame issue happened today I decided to try my old 100 base T switch again to get my wife’s permission on buying a new Blu-ray.....  And you guess right , everything became smooth and perfect. I tried 5-6 movies and high definition documentaries and not a single frame dropped.

 

Sorry to hear you are having trouble. Puzzling since the 'A' ports of the EtherREGEN are Gigabit--so much greater throughput than your 100Mbps switch. 

What color LEDs do you see above the EtherREGEN 'A' port where you have the Blu-ray player plugged into? 

 

Can you submit a diagram of your network?  Because I guess I am confused about where the video stream is coming from or going to.  Are you playing Blu-ray discs or are you using your Blu-ray player as a video processor to stream from video files on network storage?  If so then what is that storage and where is it connected to?  Also, what is the file format? Full uncompressed 4K video will have a tough time moving smoothly through 100Mbps connections--especially if it has to go through several switches.

Link to comment
On 1/27/2020 at 9:19 AM, Superdad said:

 

Sorry to hear you are having trouble. Puzzling since the 'A' ports of the EtherREGEN are Gigabit--so much greater throughput than your 100Mbps switch. 

What color LEDs do you see above the EtherREGEN 'A' port where you have the Blu-ray player plugged into? 

 

Can you submit a diagram of your network?  Because I guess I am confused about where the video stream is coming from or going to.  Are you playing Blu-ray discs or are you using your Blu-ray player as a video processor to stream from video files on network storage?  If so then what is that storage and where is it connected to?  Also, what is the file format? Full uncompressed 4K video will have a tough time moving smoothly through 100Mbps connections--especially if it has to go through several switches.

Thanks very much Alex for your prompt response as always! and sorry for the confusion.  You are correct that it is a OPPO Blu-ray player but I use it most of the time being a video streamer.  (I do have 4K content but I only played 1080p HD so far since my TV display not supporting 4K).

 

for the LED color, it is Green blinking LED I observed above the EtherREGEN 'A' port where I have the Blu-ray player plugged into.  the another port which I have plugged my network from wall socket is Amber/Yellow blinking.

 

I posted my audio system network below for your reference and thanks again for your help.

AV SYSTEM NETWORK SETUP.jpg

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...