A proposal: the Objectivist Audio Review magazine

[Jud]

10 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I got the observation!

 

You sure? 'Cause I have a feeling @lmitche may have more.  

[jabbr]

18 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Yep. First two places I would look are phase behavior and low level noise - but then I know next to nothing about audio, so those are the only two things I can think of.  

 

Ok, reasonable issues to look at (seriously) so let's think about this ... DC power cable affects phase behavior ... how? Low level noise is very easy to measure ... so ... ?

 

(these are the questions that are compelled in my mind ...)

[jabbr]

14 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

You sure? 'Cause I have a feeling @lmitche may have more.  

 

Maybe I know too many reasons why my own ears as interpreted by my own brain may not be empirically accurate.

[Milt99]

2 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I don't doubt that rooms play a very large role. Yet there are recordings that perform very specific depth, soundstage, etc., "tricks," that do these things consistently in a variety of rooms. I'd suppose therefore that phase and timing are also involved.

 

2 hours ago, mansr said:

Those are mostly the result of room reflections.

 

2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

I don't doubt that, but swapping just the amp back and forth, i clearly have more depth and separation with the mac than other amps i have tried.  Passlabs threshold came in second to about 30 different amps i have tried.

 

Well, in my experience spending time & money on measuring your room and judicious room treatments are more effective in creating a cohesive sound field can make a very modest system sound better than a system several times the price.

 

I'm with beerandmusic here to a point:

The recording is everything. Measuring and treating your room 2nd. Many rooms are predisposed to having a nice acoustic. treatments always improve that. Speaker placement comes in 3rd. One thing I have found is that soundstage depth is very amplifier dependent.

Soundstage width is due to the speaker, placement and your room in that order but face it, a narrow room is going to be challenged.

 

Jud, I personally haven't played vinyl since 1986, but I do have a couple vinylite Pals & I've listened to their & my vinyl and much of it sounds great. Low play 12" 45s singles are the best.

I'm in the process of digitally cataloging my modest LP collection for sale.

And you are correct, Sir. I've taken this thread farther OT.

 

Back OT, Archimago is doing a review of the RME ADI-2 Pro FS.

Excellent measurements by ASR. Looking forward to it.

 

[Jud]

46 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Ok, reasonable issues to look at (seriously) so let's think about this ... DC power cable affects phase behavior ... how? Low level noise is very easy to measure ... so ... ?

 

(these are the questions that are compelled in my mind ...)

 

DC power? I was talking about a USB cable. (Just mentioning this, as I have no idea whether it would affect the analysis one way or another.)

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

i just googled jssg360 and found this?  Is this the same?

It suggests (if I am reading correctly) that using double shield is far more effective.

 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1469

Here is the step by step post by Elan120 on how to make a jssg360 cable using the Gotham gac4/1 ultra cable.

 

The usaaudiomart postings are a poor attempt at discrediting the jssg360 technique. Unfortunately the authors didn't read the instructions in enough detail.

 

One can also use two layers of tinned copper braid on top of any existing DC, Ethernet or USB cable with a layer of insulation between except at the endpoints where the two layers should overlap. Make sure the braid does not touch any cable connectors at the endpoints.

[jabbr]

7 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

DC power? I was talking about a USB cable. (Just mentioning this, as I have no idea whether it would affect the analysis one way or another.)

Ah ok! I trust @PeterSt to be sufficiently compulsive that I use the Lush with his NOS1a and I use the straightline Uptone  USB connector between the ISO Regen and my iFi DAC.

 

I'd certainly try a $12.99 USB cable instead with my iFi (but its taken me months to be sure about the ISO Regen with my iFI BL to start out with ...)

[Jud]

45 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Maybe I know too many reasons why my own ears as interpreted by my own brain may not be empirically accurate.

 

Oh heck yeah.  I'm not making truth claims, just talking about sense impressions that raise interesting questions - part of what makes the hobby fun for a dabbler like me.

 

Even if I'm deluding myself, there's this joke I like:

 

Parents take their son to a psychiatrist, tell him their son thinks he's a chicken.

 

The psychiatrist says he can cure the son quickly. The parents hesitate, and the psychiatrist asks why. 

 

"Well," says the father, "we like the eggs."

 

Even if I'm deluding myself, I like the eggs, er, the sound.

[Jud]

18 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Ah ok! I trust @PeterSt to be sufficiently compulsive that I use the Lush with his NOS1a and I use the straightline Uptone  USB connector between the ISO Regen and my iFi DAC.

 

I'd certainly try a $12.99 USB cable instead with my iFi.

 

I use the cable in between the microRendu and the DAC; I use the straightline Uptone connector between the ISO Regen and microRendu.

 

Edit: Sorry, the USB cable is from the Regen to the DAC. Thanks to @lmitche for making me aware of the error.

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

I use the cable in between the microRendu and the DAC; I use the straightline Uptone connector between the ISO Regen and microRendu.

I find it best to use an usbpcb out of the pc into the Iso Regen and then USB cable from the Iso Regen to the ifi DAC.

[Jud]

32 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

I'm with beerandmusic here to a point:

The recording is everything.

 

32 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Jud, I personally haven't played vinyl since 1986, but I do have a couple vinylite Pals & I've listened to their & my vinyl and much of it sounds great. 

 

I think the one has an awful lot to do with the other.  The LPs I like better than digital are due to masterings I prefer.

[Jud]

4 minutes ago, lmitche said:

I find it best to use an usbpcb out of the pc into the Iso Regen and then USB cable from the Iso Regen to the ifi DAC.

 

Thanks, yes, this is actually pretty much equivalent to what I'm doing (the microRendu taking the place of the PC), and I've now edited the post you quoted to reflect that.

[PeterSt]

26 minutes ago, Jud said:

I use the cable in between the microRendu and the DAC;

 

Hi @Jud, ... "The cable" ?

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

...  if you're listening, I hope you're able to find ...

 

Larry, you cracked me up with that! Nicely done, sir.

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hang on Jabbr it's not just Jud and me:

 

@austinpop, @forehaven, @zorntel if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the words to describe the SQ change associated with your Lush cable treated with JSSG 360.

 

Hi Larry, I've already done that over in the "echo chamber." so I won't repeat it here, because it appears irrelevant.

 

Some of us can consider a purely empirical finding like yours (JSSG 360), decide - what the heck, let's try it, and within hours be enjoying better SQ in our systems. Our view is if it sounds better, who cares if it's explainable or measurable. And even if it's just a delusion - like @Jud's eggs analogy - I don't care, because it sounds better to my brain, and it gives me pleasure. 

 

And with the state of the world these days, I'll take that any day.

[crenca]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

 

Oh heck yeah.  I'm not making truth claims, just talking about sense impressions that raise interesting questions - part of what makes the hobby fun for a dabbler like me.

 

Even if I'm deluding myself, there's this joke I like:

 

Parents take their son to a psychiatrist, tell him their son thinks he's a chicken.

 

The psychiatrist says he can cure the son quickly. The parents hesitate, and the psychiatrist asks why. 

 

"Well," says the father, "we like the eggs."

 

Even if I'm deluding myself, I like the eggs, er, the sound.

 

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Larry, I've already done that over in the "echo chamber." so I won't repeat it here, because it appears irrelevant.

 

Some of us can consider a purely empirical finding like yours (JSSG 360), decide - what the heck, let's try it, and within hours be enjoying better SQ in our systems. Our view is if it sounds better, who cares if it's explainable or measurable. And even if it's just a delusion - like @Jud's eggs analogy - I don't care, because it sounds better to my brain, and it gives me pleasure. 

 

And with the state of the world these days, I'll take that any day.

 

Two anecdotal testimonies in support of the Audiophile subjectivist status quo.  It's almost as if the topic is "A proposal: the Subjectivist Audio Review magazine"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zorntel]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hang on Jabbr it's not just Jud and me:

 

@austinpop, @forehaven, @zorntel if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the words to describe the SQ change associated with your Lush cable treated with JSSG 360.

Zorntel confirming that the Larry Magic juice on a LUSH is a huge leap forward from the cheap USB cable...which has been retired...I have two modified LUSH's now, one for each system.  One is feeding an IFI Black label and the other goes to a HOLO Cyan, both running DSD512.

 

Robert

[crenca]

I was just reading this over at Car and Driver:

 

"More than $30,000 of the as-tested price was optional equipment, including $2260 for a night-vision system and $6400 for a Burmester “high end” audio system. There’s a stock Burmester audio system, but this one is $6400 more “high end.”

 

and it reminded me of something a real objectivist audio magazine could be about in addition to everything else:  value

 

We are all certainly aware of the subjectivist take on value and its relationship to audio, but the subjectivist take leads us exactly to "high end" where things are so disconnected from value that the hobby itself becomes a living parody of ostentatious wealth.  Subjectivists will counter with the usual, including their own efforts around value (i.e. cheap USB cable modifications already mentioned, etc.) but as the last page indicates all they really have is subjective personal testimonial.  What would an objectivist take on value look like? 

 

 

 

 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, crenca said:

What would an objectivist take on value look like? 

 

 A Ghetto Blaster Boombox ?

[fas42]

5 hours ago, mansr said:

Those are mostly the result of room reflections.

 

Ummm, no ... the cues are in the recording, in the form of low level information that the brain uses to decode what "it all means". Mess up this low level data, and the depth and soundstage evaporate - which means then using various room treatments, etc, to restore a sense of ambience.

 

Anyone who has a setup which is faithful to the recording will experience the at times dramatic alterations of the space that's in front of them, as they change from recording to recording - think, opening the curtain on the next act in a stage show, when everything was altered in the interim, and the perpective was changed from, say, intimate to distant.

[PeterSt]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

4 hours ago, Jud said:

I use the cable in between the microRendu and the DAC;

 

Hi @Jud, ... "The cable" ?

 

@Jud, Never mind. I missed the "cable vs connector" thing.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

Some of us can consider a purely empirical finding like yours (JSSG 360), decide - what the heck, let's try it, and within hours be enjoying better SQ in our systems. Our view is if it sounds better, who cares if it's explainable or measurable.

 

Well it’s not as if John didn’t go to some lengths to explain the theory and operating principles behind looped shielding technique and why it very effectively blocks entry of low frequency AC leakage that is present around everyone’s cable nests. 

It is funny how the explanations behind many of the effective techniques—in products and tweaks—that @JohnSwensonhas written about get ignored or forgotten, by both critics and adherents.    

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Hi @Jud, ... "The cable" ?

 

Well I’ll say it Peter:

I use and enjoy your Lush very much!  But I’m not a fan of it at all by itself—it does something VERY weird to pianos, something I am very sensitive about.  Yet paired with the ISO REGEN it is fantastic.  And much as I don’t want it to be, the connection order that’s best is PC > USPCB Adapter > ISO REGEN > Lush > DAC.  

 

[Would you like me to send you an ISO REGEN to play with?  Of course I know your DAC also has your own Silanna-based Phisolator input, but our Crystek-clocked regeneration just post the PC is likely to further enhance the chain.  Drop me a line if you like.]

[asdf1000]

37 minutes ago, Superdad said:

And much as I don’t want it to be, the connection order that’s best is PC > USPCB Adapter > ISO REGEN > Lush > DAC.  

 

Can you now share what you think Lush is doing? Privately if necessary - it will stay private. I remember you said a long while ago that you had a pretty good idea.

 

Surely Peter wouldn't care now that enough time has passed ?

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

Can you now share what you think Lush is doing?

 

Of course that’s for Peter to tell if he chooses.

All we have are theories (based in part on hints he gave and in part on the eye-pattern we ran). His goals and methods are his business.