Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[thegios]

35 minutes ago, thegios said:

Didn't find anything... But it's normal that it's up to the app.

 

Android 14 gains support for lossless audio formats for audiophile-level experiences over USB. The app (developer) can/must query a USB device for its preferred mixer attributes, register a listener for changes in preferred mixer attributes, and configure mixer attributes using a new AudioMixerAttributes class. This class represents the format, such as channel mask, sample rate, and behavior of the audio mixer. The class allows for audio to be sent directly to the usb device, without mixing, volume adjustment, or processing effects.

 

So what I expect is that an app has a switch in the options for Android Mixer or Bit Perfect and then if user chooses Bit Perfect the app configures corresponding mixer attribute thru AudioMixerAttributes class.

 

This is similar to what UAPP has been doing for a long time even prior to this new Android 14 capability.

 

@David Craff any progress on this? It's not rocket science for your developers, it's all in here: https://source.android.com/docs/core/audio/preferred-mixer-attr

 

But I'm sure they already know 😬 

[111MilesToGo]

8 hours ago, Balthazar B said:

 

Why don't you and @jhwalker cross check the sources that are behaving differently for the two of you? It could indicate whether there may a problem with the way different source material was encoded by the publishers before they provisioned the content to Qobuz. Or since your iPhones are of different generations, it could be something with the hardware and how iOS17 interacts with each of them.

Thanks for your proposals. I would not exclude anything, but: I had been listening to these albums that made me stumble now many times before flawlessly. And I had used my iPhone 14 flawlessly until some time at least in October with various iOS 16s, which does not exclude that iOS 17 behaves differently depending on the iPhone model 14 vs. 15.

 

On the other hand, cf. this report on the web: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255196554

 

That said, I don‘t know at all whether these issues are down to Apple only, or to both Apple and third-party software developers.

[111MilesToGo]

Wrt the Gapless issues I posted yesterday:

 

Here is my playlist for this:

http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/17921659

Each transition between the pair of tracks from one album (the four tracks from the last album, resp.) is seamless and should be heard as Gapless. I cannot find anything special with these albums; gapless breakage did indeed happen with any other albums I dug out.

 

In particular @jhwalker: If you find the time … I‘ll search for your two albums and give them a spin.

[111MilesToGo]

14 hours ago, jhwalker said:

Just a quick note: gapless playback is not UNIVERSALLY "completely broken".  Works just fine for me using the Qobuz app on my iPhone 15 Pro, both playing back locally on the phone and via AirPlay to my receiver.  Sample was the recent "Rachmaninoff 150" release from Berlin Philharmonic / Kirill Gerstein, using the "Variations on a Theme of Corelli" tracks, which should play back seamlessly, without interruption - they do.

 

Also confirmed via Chicago Symphony / Pierre Boulez recording of the Firebird Suite, which is spread over multiple tracks as well, and plays back flawlessly.

I did a quick first check with your two albums. Both do suffer Gapless breakage for me. Until now, just playing through the iPhone speakers. Hope I picked the correct ones:

http://open.qobuz.com/album/p94wgztr2znha

http://open.qobuz.com/album/kc8ejui0lf7kc

[jhwalker]

6 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

I did a quick first check with your two albums. Both do suffer Gapless breakage for me. Until now, just playing through the iPhone speakers. Hope I picked the correct ones:

http://open.qobuz.com/album/p94wgztr2znha

http://open.qobuz.com/album/kc8ejui0lf7kc

Correct in both cases.  And I just validated they still work fine for me ;)

 

I will note I'm always on the latest Developer Beta release level of iOS, which is 17.2, beta 3, using the latest version of the Qobuz iOS app, and none of the tracks are saved locally (i.e., pure streaming from Qobuz).

[111MilesToGo]

1 hour ago, jhwalker said:

Correct in both cases.  And I just validated they still work fine for me ;)

 

I will note I'm always on the latest Developer Beta release level of iOS, which is 17.2, beta 3, using the latest version of the Qobuz iOS app, and none of the tracks are saved locally (i.e., pure streaming from Qobuz).

Thanks!

 

So with iOS 17.2 beta 3 versus 17.1.1 we have identified a difference between us - FWIW. Hope for Apple having fixed it - vaguely …

 

I did both stream (both WiFi and cellular) and play from offlined, same gapless failures for both.

[111MilesToGo]

6 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

Thanks!

 

So with iOS 17.2 beta 3 versus 17.1.1 we have identified a difference between us - FWIW. Hope for Apple having fixed it - vaguely …

 

 

… besides the a.m. iPhone 15 vs. 14 difference.

[jhwalker]

21 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

… besides the a.m. iPhone 15 vs. 14 difference.

 

I also have an iPhone 11 on iOS 17.1.1 and NO issue with gapless playback on either device.

 

... so I'm thinking it has nothing to do with iOS version or iPhone rev. level, etc.

[David Craff]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:17 PM, 111MilesToGo said:

@David Craff Dear David, I would like to ask you whether your are aware of and working on recent issues with the Qobuz iOS App which potentially / probably are severe fallout from Apple releasing iOS 17 (Sep 2023). My observations come from an iPhone 14 Pro Max 512GB, which had iOS 16's til the last 16.7.2, then installed iOS 17 first as 17.1, now on 17.1.1.

 

The fallout from iOS 17 to several music players is seen and reported by several people on the web. Some potential fallout started a bit earlier in the 16s, maybe when Apple released some things before 17. From surveying these reports, and from my own experiences, the issue areas concerned comprise:

• Gapless replay broken
• Sample rate handling to the extent of
  • (a) iOS not exposing the sample rate capabilities of outboard (USB) DACs to an app correctly, and
  • (b) the music player app not performing the appropriate sample rate switching as required by the audio file
• Music player app losing internal 64-bit capability (if present)

This list might still be incomplete.

 

Two remarks: Qobuz is my dearest music streaming service. And an iPhone is quite a good and convenient digital audio transport device, thus it's valuable also to a demanding music lover.

 

 

My observations with the Qobuz iOS App on my a.m. iPhone:

• Very severe: Gapless replay is completely BROKEN. This issue occurs for:

1. Any streamed and any offlined (imported) audio tracks
2. Any input bit depths / sample rates
3. Any output, out of which I tested
   • iPhone speaker output
   • Output to outboard USB-DACs via the Lightning port into the DAC USB ports, in my case to Chord Hugo 2 and Cayin RU7 using various adapters
   • Output via Bluetooth (AAC) to a Sony WF-1000XM5 TWS IEM

• Sample rate setting and switching seem to be okay, as far as I can tell from the sample rate indicators on my two USB-DACs. This was tested for the same three sets of circumstances given above under gapless. Unfortunately, I cannot see the output bit depth ...

I find these failures and successes to be reproducible in a number of test repetitions. Of course, the usual precautions and checks were done, like fully update iOS and the apps, do reboots, check with several outboard DACs and cablings as mentioned above.

 

I suppose you don't need any hinting at appropriate audio tracks, but anyway ... any recording of Beethoven Symphony No.5 Movement 3 going into Movement 4, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, and almost every proper concert recording with applause etc. spanning across track transitions.

 

 

I should expand a bit on other music player apps in order to point you towards further potential issues in the Qobuz iOS App:

• Neutron Music Player on iOS:

1. Sample rate handling is severely broken, which means
   • (a) Neutron doesn't get to see the outboard DAC rate capabilities correctly, and
   • (b) it does an incorrect or even no switching of outgoing sample rates
2. DSD handling is broken
3. 64-bit internal processing is broken

The "Neutron and iOS 17" stuff is found at https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6919&sid=9e320a24678c8e9ddbdd3c8383508414 (don't be irritated by the thread title, in fact it collects all iOS 17 related issues further down).

• Apple Music (standard app and Classical) on iOS receives a mixed bag of reports of proper functioning as well as myriads of failures, amongst them gapless replay being broken. Myself, I have seen both proper functioning, but also some - even irreproducible - errors.

 

In addition to all this, I checked the behavior of the Qobuz Android App today - everything is fine and well-behaved.

 

Thus, I would like to ask other Qobuz iOS App users for their experiences, and I would be grateful if you @David Craff could give feedback here.

 

 

PS: David, I don't know precisely what your preferred Qobuz Issue Report Channel is. Thanks for kindly letting me know. Sorry if this channel here lets you invest more of your time than desirable.

 

 

Hi, our QA team made some tests without any issues. The only one we have is when we seek directly to the end of the track. In this case of course we have no time to download the next track to play without a gap. And has you know all tracks are not gapless unfortunately even from live album.

[111MilesToGo]

1 hour ago, David Craff said:

 

Hi, our QA team made some tests without any issues. The only one we have is when we seek directly to the end of the track. In this case of course we have no time to download the next track to play without a gap. And has you know all tracks are not gapless unfortunately even from live album.

Hi David, Thanks to you and your team. I‘m quite torn between a "so good for you“, a "I had almost expected that“ and a "hmm, what now“.

 

Regarding my seamless test tracks, I know them all by heart. Imagine Beethoven‘s 5th movement 3 into 4 with a gap …

 

Unfortunately, I have tried here and elsewhere to find a common denominator for those gapless issues - none found up to now. Parameters could be iOS version, iPhone model, maybe (very maybe) settings for Apple Music.

 

As of now, I am left with a vague hope of Apple solving things on their side. Waiting for iOS 17.2.

 

Thanks again. I‘ll be back when I have news to report.

[David Craff]

14 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

Hi David, Thanks to you and your team. I‘m quite torn between a "so good for you“, a "I had almost expected that“ and a "hmm, what now“.

 

Regarding my seamless test tracks, I know them all by heart. Imagine Beethoven‘s 5th movement 3 into 4 with a gap …

 

Unfortunately, I have tried here and elsewhere to find a common denominator for those gapless issues - none found up to now. Parameters could be iOS version, iPhone model, maybe (very maybe) settings for Apple Music.

 

As of now, I am left with a vague hope of Apple solving things on their side. Waiting for iOS 17.2.

 

Thanks again. I‘ll be back when I have news to report.

Because our player is homemade I can't see any impact from iOS 17

[111MilesToGo]

1 hour ago, David Craff said:

Because our player is homemade I can't see any impact from iOS 17

But then: Why did everything Gapless work perfectly with the Qobuz iOS App on this iPhone 14 Pro Max (bought in June 2023) of mine until some time around end of October, then all of a sudden failed completely for me?

 

I am not aware of anything I could have done wrong. All I did was:

- Follow the iOS updates during the late 16s quite instantly

- Sit out on iOS 17.0 (released September) to let Apple mature it

- At this time in October, Qobuz gapless did work fine

- Start checking out Dolby Atmos on Apple Music early November

- Install iOS 17.1 early November only, just a day or so after getting into Atmos; got iOS 17.1.1 soon thereafter

- Then notice the Qobuz Gapless issue; but I am not sure whether it first occurred to me when on 17.1 or 17.1.1

I mention these steps without claiming any logical causes for the failure. I updated the Qobuz App instantly whenever a new version was released on the AppStore.

 

I‘m sort of lost.

[Balthazar B]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:32 AM, 111MilesToGo said:

But then: Why did everything Gapless work perfectly with the Qobuz iOS App on this iPhone 14 Pro Max (bought in June 2023) of mine until some time around end of October, then all of a sudden failed completely for me?

 

I am not aware of anything I could have done wrong. All I did was:

- Follow the iOS updates during the late 16s quite instantly

- Sit out on iOS 17.0 (released September) to let Apple mature it

- At this time in October, Qobuz gapless did work fine

- Start checking out Dolby Atmos on Apple Music early November

- Install iOS 17.1 early November only, just a day or so after getting into Atmos; got iOS 17.1.1 soon thereafter

- Then notice the Qobuz Gapless issue; but I am not sure whether it first occurred to me when on 17.1 or 17.1.1

I mention these steps without claiming any logical causes for the failure. I updated the Qobuz App instantly whenever a new version was released on the AppStore.

 

I‘m sort of lost.

 

No, you didn't do anything wrong. But given the timeline you provide, it points to Apple breaking something with one of their iOS updates. Either across all their hardware, or with the hardware you're using because it wasn't properly tested against it. Or it was and Apple figures anyone who's affected by it and cares can simply purchase a new phone from them if that's where it gets fixed.

 

While I haven't done an exhaustive search, it seems to me that I've seen chatter elsewhere about problems with iOS 17 and audio. But as I don't use Apple devices, it's a little outside the gravity of my motivation to do much focused research.

 

Now if Apple sent around a developer alert well in advance to the effect of, "We'll be making a change in iOS17 that will miserably eff up audio streaming in all kinds of ways for all our content 'partners' and here's what you have to do to fix it because we can't", and Qobuz ignored it, only then the problem's on Qobuz. But somehow I don't think it happened that way.

[111MilesToGo]

On 11/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, Balthazar B said:

 

No, you didn't do anything wrong. But given the timeline you provide, it points to Apple breaking something with one of their iOS updates. Either across all their hardware, or with the hardware you're using because it wasn't properly tested against it. Or it was and Apple figures anyone who's affected by it and cares can simply purchase a new phone from them if that's where it gets fixed.

 

While I haven't done an exhaustive search, it seems to me that I've seen chatter elsewhere about problems with iOS 17 and audio. But as I don't use Apple devices, it's a little outside the gravity of my motivation to do much focused research.

 

Now if Apple sent around a developer alert well in advance to the effect of, "We'll be making a change in iOS17 that will miserably eff up audio streaming in all kinds of ways for all our content 'partners' and here's what you have to do to fix it because we can't", and Qobuz ignored it, only then the problem's on Qobuz. But somehow I don't think it happened that way.

I agree with you in all points. Thanks for your reassuring me.

 

The main insufficiency of my knowledge is: What does it take to play gapless audio on an iPhone? (1) Just a capability of the music player only? (2) Something within iOS only? (3) Capabilities of both the music player and iOS, interacting with each other? To be honest, I have a hard time believing in (1) and (2). Thus I figure it might be (3) - although David Craff said it‘s (1). But I just don‘t know.

 

What I also believe is that Apple employs a strict prioritizing of known bugs, feature requests and what else regarding their operating systems. And I think gapless music replay is a minority concern, thus it‘s very low on their agenda. In addition, I think we have seen a release of iOS 17 that seemed quite immature, ranging from postponing new features to discovering security issues and hardware issues right after its release.

 

The point with web chatter about audio issues with iOS 17 - and previously on and off with several older versions - is that most people are coming from the Apple Music App only. Thus it‘s tough to distinguish what is the root cause, Music or iOS or both.

 

I am still very reluctant to assume malicious behavior on any side, like e.g. Apple neglecting last year‘s iPhone 14 in order to foster iPhone 15 sales … but we never know.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for iOS 17.2 … The one thing I would hate most is to completely wipe my iPhone and install everything manually from scratch, operating system as well as all software and settings, without resorting to a backup.

[111MilesToGo]

To continue on the "Qobuz iOS App and Gapless Issues" saga: Still on the same iOS 17.1.1 as before, I reached for the Tidal iOS App and checked its behavior, with the same tracks as before across a wide range of bits/sample rates, and the same outputs from my iPhone 14 Pro Max 512GB as before (iPhone speakers, outboard USB-DAC Cayin RU7, Bluetooth TWS IEMs Sony WF-1000XM5). No updates or other changes to my iPhone between my report on Qobuz and now.

 

Well, the result with Tidal on iOS is: Gapless replay works flawlessly.

 

I do not know at all what this means, neither for Qobuz, nor for Apple. Dear @David Craff, go figure …

[davide256]

5 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

To continue on the "Qobuz iOS App and Gapless Issues" saga: Still on the same iOS 17.1.1 as before, I reached for the Tidal iOS App and checked its behavior, with the same tracks as before across a wide range of bits/sample rates, and the same outputs from my iPhone 14 Pro Max 512GB as before (iPhone speakers, outboard USB-DAC Cayin RU7, Bluetooth TWS IEMs Sony WF-1000XM5). No updates or other changes to my iPhone between my report on Qobuz and now.

 

Well, the result with Tidal on iOS is: Gapless replay works flawlessly.

 

I do not know at all what this means, neither for Qobuz, nor for Apple. Dear @David Craff, go figure …

I think you are arguing from “I own this”bias rather than science. Given the lack of duplication things seem to be pointing to a problem unique to your phone. In your shoes I’d walk into a store and test the app on another phone, and replace the phone if the problem wasn’t duplicated. Modern electronics are so complex that often “ghost” problems are only resolved by replacing/swapping equipment.

[botrytis]

2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I think you are arguing from “I own this”bias rather than science. Given the lack of duplication things seem to be pointing to a problem unique to your phone. In your shoes I’d walk into a store and test the app on another phone, and replace the phone if the problem wasn’t duplicated. Modern electronics are so complex that often “ghost” problems are only resolved by replacing/swapping equipment.

 

Always believed, the problem can be traced to the newest item in in the reproduction chain. 95% of the time, that is the issue.

 

 

[Balthazar B]

22 hours ago, botrytis said:

 

Always believed, the problem can be traced to the newest item in in the reproduction chain. 95% of the time, that is the issue.

 

 

In my experience, more like 99% of the time. With all things mechanical and technical, true coincidences are very, very rare.

[111MilesToGo]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:17 PM, 111MilesToGo said:

@David Craff Dear David, I would like to ask you whether your are aware of and working on recent issues with the Qobuz iOS App which potentially / probably are severe fallout from Apple releasing iOS 17 (Sep 2023). My observations come from an iPhone 14 Pro Max 512GB, which had iOS 16's til the last 16.7.2, then installed iOS 17 first as 17.1, now on 17.1.1.

 

The fallout from iOS 17 to several music players is seen and reported by several people on the web. Some potential fallout started a bit earlier in the 16s, maybe when Apple released some things before 17. From surveying these reports, and from my own experiences, the issue areas concerned comprise:

• Gapless replay broken
• Sample rate handling to the extent of
  • (a) iOS not exposing the sample rate capabilities of outboard (USB) DACs to an app correctly, and
  • (b) the music player app not performing the appropriate sample rate switching as required by the audio file
• Music player app losing internal 64-bit capability (if present)

This list might still be incomplete.

 

Two remarks: Qobuz is my dearest music streaming service. And an iPhone is quite a good and convenient digital audio transport device, thus it's valuable also to a demanding music lover.

 

 

My observations with the Qobuz iOS App on my a.m. iPhone:

• Very severe: Gapless replay is completely BROKEN. This issue occurs for:

1. Any streamed and any offlined (imported) audio tracks
2. Any input bit depths / sample rates
3. Any output, out of which I tested
   • iPhone speaker output
   • Output to outboard USB-DACs via the Lightning port into the DAC USB ports, in my case to Chord Hugo 2 and Cayin RU7 using various adapters
   • Output via Bluetooth (AAC) to a Sony WF-1000XM5 TWS IEM

• Sample rate setting and switching seem to be okay, as far as I can tell from the sample rate indicators on my two USB-DACs. This was tested for the same three sets of circumstances given above under gapless. Unfortunately, I cannot see the output bit depth ...

I find these failures and successes to be reproducible in a number of test repetitions. Of course, the usual precautions and checks were done, like fully update iOS and the apps, do reboots, check with several outboard DACs and cablings as mentioned above.

 

I suppose you don't need any hinting at appropriate audio tracks, but anyway ... any recording of Beethoven Symphony No.5 Movement 3 going into Movement 4, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, and almost every proper concert recording with applause etc. spanning across track transitions.

 

 

I should expand a bit on other music player apps in order to point you towards further potential issues in the Qobuz iOS App:

• Neutron Music Player on iOS:

1. Sample rate handling is severely broken, which means
   • (a) Neutron doesn't get to see the outboard DAC rate capabilities correctly, and
   • (b) it does an incorrect or even no switching of outgoing sample rates
2. DSD handling is broken
3. 64-bit internal processing is broken

The "Neutron and iOS 17" stuff is found at https://neutroncode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6919&sid=9e320a24678c8e9ddbdd3c8383508414 (don't be irritated by the thread title, in fact it collects all iOS 17 related issues further down).

• Apple Music (standard app and Classical) on iOS receives a mixed bag of reports of proper functioning as well as myriads of failures, amongst them gapless replay being broken. Myself, I have seen both proper functioning, but also some - even irreproducible - errors.

 

In addition to all this, I checked the behavior of the Qobuz Android App today - everything is fine and well-behaved.

 

Thus, I would like to ask other Qobuz iOS App users for their experiences, and I would be grateful if you @David Craff could give feedback here.

 

 

PS: David, I don't know precisely what your preferred Qobuz Issue Report Channel is. Thanks for kindly letting me know. Sorry if this channel here lets you invest more of your time than desirable.

 

 

On 11/16/2023 at 9:04 AM, 111MilesToGo said:

Wrt the Gapless issues I posted yesterday:

 

Here is my playlist for this:

http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/17921659

Each transition between the pair of tracks from one album (the four tracks from the last album, resp.) is seamless and should be heard as Gapless. I cannot find anything special with these albums; gapless breakage did indeed happen with any other albums I dug out.

 

In particular @jhwalker: If you find the time … I‘ll search for your two albums and give them a spin.

 

On 11/20/2023 at 5:50 PM, David Craff said:

 

Hi, our QA team made some tests without any issues. The only one we have is when we seek directly to the end of the track. In this case of course we have no time to download the next track to play without a gap. And has you know all tracks are not gapless unfortunately even from live album.

 

On 11/21/2023 at 10:32 AM, 111MilesToGo said:

But then: Why did everything Gapless work perfectly with the Qobuz iOS App on this iPhone 14 Pro Max (bought in June 2023) of mine until some time around end of October, then all of a sudden failed completely for me?

 

I am not aware of anything I could have done wrong. All I did was:

- Follow the iOS updates during the late 16s quite instantly

- Sit out on iOS 17.0 (released September) to let Apple mature it

- At this time in October, Qobuz gapless did work fine

- Start checking out Dolby Atmos on Apple Music early November

- Install iOS 17.1 early November only, just a day or so after getting into Atmos; got iOS 17.1.1 soon thereafter

- Then notice the Qobuz Gapless issue; but I am not sure whether it first occurred to me when on 17.1 or 17.1.1

I mention these steps without claiming any logical causes for the failure. I updated the Qobuz App instantly whenever a new version was released on the AppStore.

 

I‘m sort of lost.

 

This morning an updated Qobuz iOS App reached the AppStore, version 7.6.1. The change log says "minor bug fixes".

 

Because of this app update, I feel obliged to update you, @David Craff, and all others who have shown interest in the "gapless saga" on my new findings with this iOS App version. The news actually comes in three parts:

1. Good news: The gapless failures have disappeared, at least to a certain extent.
2. Bad news: Under certain circumstances, gapless replay still fails.
3. New news: Some weird behavior does occur now in relation to the time slider and associated timing figures. It is much weirder now than the weird behaviors the time bar had before.

Importantly, I didn't change anything else on my iPhone 14 Pro Max with iOS 17.1.1. Just installed the new Qobuz App version, so we have a clear case.

 

To recap my findings with the previous Qobuz version: Gapless was broken completely, it failed 100% of the time. No matter what bit depth / sample rate were input. No matter what output was done. No matter what the internet connectivity circumstances were (unless horrible, of course). No matter whether I streamed the tracks fresh from the Qobuz servers, no matter whether I played them for the second time i.e. had them still in the cache (10 GB). No matter whether I imported the tracks first then played them. No matter whether I let the tracks play in total without interfering manually or whether I scrolled forward to some point 10 or 15 seconds or even a minute before the transition to the next track. Gapless did fail completely.

 

Now, let me report on what I find with the new Qobuz iOS App version 7.6.1 regarding the gapless saga. My news items 1 and 2 - things have changed:

• Gapless works now most of the time! Yes. I only did streaming; I didn't check what happens in the case of imported files.
• Except, there are cases left where gapless while streaming still fails:
  • When playing the tracks without manual interference (no scrolling forward), it fails when the second track is a long one. A good example is Beethoven's 5th, where the transition between movements 3 and 4 is continuous, and movement 4 is some 10 minutes worth of music (Kleiber version 24/96).
  • When playing tracks from a live recording, where you have "Song 1" - "Short announcement" - Song 2" which have been sequenced as separate but continuous tracks, as e.g. on Suzanne Vega's An Evening of New York Songs and Stories, it looks like the Qobuz App gets "surprised" by the sudden appearance of Song 2, producing the typical half-second gap failure.
  • When I scroll forward in a track to some seconds or a minute before its end and transition into the next one, I still see gapless failures at times.
  • I have cleared the app's cache to begin with. When I play my tracks for the first time, some gapless failures do occur as described as "except for" right above. When I play them a second time, i.e. probably from cache, gapless works perfectly.
• As mentioned above, I still have to check what happens when playing imported tracks.

Thus, hypothetically, it seems to me that the Qobuz team has been working on things like buffering and pre-fetching the next track. It looks like they achieved a certain portion of the way, but they haven't arrived at perfection yet.

 

My news item 3, the time slider bar and times display:

• On the Now Playing screen, the time slider and the two associated times displayed underneath have acquired a behavior now that is even more weird than before.
  • The seconds displayed do not move in sync with the real world. Sometimes - actually quite often - the seconds clock in more slowly than the real seconds; then they try to make up for that either by clocking in more speedily or even skipping some seconds (I saw skips of 2 to 4).
  • When going from one track to the next, seconds at the end of one track and/or at the beginning of the next track get skipped by quite a lot (up to 5 or so).
  • The time slider bar tends to move irregularly, too.
• What was seen also in older versions of the app:
  • When scrolling a long distance (forward) within one track by drawing the bar, the bar follows my finger, then upon release of the finger races to back to where it came from, then races forward to the desired position.

Maybe these issues gapless, buffering, timing, time slider are related, maybe not.

 

Dear David, I wanted to let you know these new findings. Somehow, I have a feeling that the Qobuz iOS App version 7.6.1 is sort of a beta released to the public. At least, I feel a little bit glad that the gapless saga got moving forward a bit. I hope this feedback helps you and your team to go the residual miles until everything gets just exactly perfect (again). And, please understand: I am just reporting on what I see; the hypothetical conclusions are mine only, and they might be completely wrong.

[bobbmd]

@David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist

on recent air flight My Qobuz or off line playlists would not play from my iPhone 15 or my iPad Pro both with latest updates etc am I doing something wrong or doesn’t offline playlists work at all in airplane mode?

also if I try to download albums or playlists I make they don’t show up in my offline library— I have more than enough space

thanks

[David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist]

Thanks for the heads up, @bobbmd, I have a lot downloaded and I'm just now updating the OS. Will let you know if mine does the same.

@David Craff or the production team would know better. If this is happening, they will be on it quickly.

[111MilesToGo]

4 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

 

…

My news item 3, the time slider bar and times display:

• On the Now Playing screen, the time slider and the two associated times displayed underneath have acquired a behavior now that is even more weird than before.
  • The seconds displayed do not move in sync with the real world. Sometimes - actually quite often - the seconds clock in more slowly than the real seconds; then they try to make up for that either by clocking in more speedily or even skipping some seconds (I saw skips of 2 to 4).
  • When going from one track to the next, seconds at the end of one track and/or at the beginning of the next track get skipped by quite a lot (up to 5 or so).
  • The time slider bar tends to move irregularly, too.
• What was seen also in older versions of the app:
  • When scrolling a long distance (forward) within one track by drawing the bar, the bar follows my finger, then upon release of the finger races to back to where it came from, then races forward to the desired position.

…

ADDENDUM for clarity: When talking about seconds skipping and the like, I am ONLY referring to the numbers on display. The music plays perfectly well all along (except for the remaining gapless failures, of course).

[David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist]

3 hours ago, bobbmd said:

@David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist

on recent air flight My Qobuz or off line playlists would not play from my iPhone 15 or my iPad Pro both with latest updates etc am I doing something wrong or doesn’t offline playlists work at all in airplane mode?

also if I try to download albums or playlists I make they don’t show up in my offline library— I have more than enough space

thanks

Hi Bob, I just updated w no issues. I switched off wifi and put into airplane mode. My cuts all show and they play.

[bobbmd]

Thanks I don’t fly that often will try that next time never thought to turn off wifi or if I looked didn’t know if it was on or off

thanks again 

[111MilesToGo]

17 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

...

 

Now, let me report on what I find with the new Qobuz iOS App version 7.6.1 regarding the gapless saga. My news items 1 and 2 - things have changed:

• Gapless works now most of the time! Yes. I only did streaming; I didn't check what happens in the case of imported files.
• Except, there are cases left where gapless while streaming still fails:
  • When playing the tracks without manual interference (no scrolling forward), it fails when the second track is a long one. A good example is Beethoven's 5th, where the transition between movements 3 and 4 is continuous, and movement 4 is some 10 minutes worth of music (Kleiber version 24/96).
  • When playing tracks from a live recording, where you have "Song 1" - "Short announcement" - Song 2" which have been sequenced as separate but continuous tracks, as e.g. on Suzanne Vega's An Evening of New York Songs and Stories, it looks like the Qobuz App gets "surprised" by the sudden appearance of Song 2, producing the typical half-second gap failure.
  • When I scroll forward in a track to some seconds or a minute before its end and transition into the next one, I still see gapless failures at times.
  • I have cleared the app's cache to begin with. When I play my tracks for the first time, some gapless failures do occur as described as "except for" right above. When I play them a second time, i.e. probably from cache, gapless works perfectly.
• As mentioned above, I still have to check what happens when playing imported tracks.

...

 

 

Hi @David Craff, I still owe you a feedback on what happens to gapless playback with the Qobuz iOS App version 7.6.1 when playing imported ("offlined") tracks. I am still on iOS 17.1.1; still holding back on 17.1.2 which was released last evening in order to stick to my clear case of ONLY installing the App version 7.1.6 as of yesterday morning. Before the checks now, I wiped the cache and the previously imported tracks, then imported the tracks from my test playlist only. In order to make playing only imported tracks from the iPhone storage double safe, I switched to Flight Mode.

 

The results are the same as reported yesterday for playing streams from the Qobuz servers:

• Gapless works most of the time,
• but the exceptions - i.e. failures of gapless stell present - have changed a little bit, of course:
  • The only exception left is this one: When I scroll forward in a track to some seconds or a minute before its end and transition into the next one, I still see gapless failures at times.
  • No problem seen yet when the second track is a long one.
  • No problem seen yet for this Suzanne Vega stuff of "Song 1" - "Short announcement" - "Song 2".
  • No difference for playing my tracks for the first or second time - i.e. gapless works except for the first and only exception given above - , supposedly because the tracks sit inside the iPhone.
     
• The weird behavior of the time slider and displayed time figures is the same.

 

Thanks for your attention.