Schiit embarrassed at AXPONA

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

And different music.

Yes, That too.

[GUTB]

The Cantons I think are $20k (Reference 4K?). The Salk Song 3As are $4k. The Songs have great parts: RAAL ribbons and Accuton drivers. I’ve been interested in Salk for a while, but they don’t offer any kind of return or in-home demo policy which makes me very hesitant to try them out. It doesn’t help that whenever I hear them at shows they tend to be inferior — not bad, just not as good as other manufacturers.

 

I’ll be honest. Most of the time if something makes me turn my head at these shows it often ends up being European in origin like this very good sounding (and looking) Auris system:

 

 

 

[beancounter]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I'm not so sure even that is true. Take the Schiit system and the Esoteric system, have them both play the same piece of music through the same pair of speakers (with a switch to select which system is playing through the speakers at any given time) and I doubt that anyone would find enough difference between to two in a double blind comparison to consistently be able to pick out the more expensive of the two systems. Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not trying to say that the two disparate systems would sound alike, not a bit of it, but I'm saying that one probably won't sound enough better than the other as to be a clear indicator of price. Remember. In high-end audio price doesn't always indicate sound quality. 

 

Being a dumpster-diving, bottom feeding DIY type, I’m inclined to agree with your sentiments in a general sense. Good (and bad) sound comes in a wide ranges of price tags.  

 

Same system, most likely couldn’t differentiate DACs, within preference/taste (I personally think DAC and line level have matured, lots of great sound at most price points, but that’s another discussion). 

 

Amplification, I think a good listener could readily differentiate between Esoteric and Schiit.  My opinion. 

 

I dont think Schiit was embarrassed at all, and I think the Salk speakers were appropriate for thier target market. But Esoteric/Canton was in a different category than Schiit/Salk. 

[nefilim]

I have no dog in this ... difference of opinion but apparently Schiit DACs don't measure very well either... could there actually be a correlation between certain measurements and perceived quality ??

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, nefilim said:

I have no dog in this ... difference of opinion but apparently Schiit DACs don't measure very well either... could there actually be a correlation between certain measurements and perceived quality ??

On the contrary, Schiit's latest Gungnir and Yggdrasil both measure beautifully!

[nefilim]

7 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

On the contrary, Schiit's latest Gungnir and Yggdrasil both measure beautifully!

 

Do you have any references? I'd like to see more "objective measurements". 

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurement-and-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-fulla-v1-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2641/

 

ps. nice GTV!! 

[gmgraves]

17 minutes ago, nefilim said:

 

Do you have any references? I'd like to see more "objective measurements". 

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurement-and-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-fulla-v1-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2641/

 

ps. nice GTV!! 

You are aware that the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil have recently been upgraded? Look at the AtomicBob test of the current Yggy at Superbestaudiofriends.com. The numbers are fantastic and since I have one, I can attest to the fact that in shoot-outs between the Yggy and Benchmark 3 and the uber expensive MSB Diamond IV, the Yggy put 'em all to shame SQ wise.

[Don Hills]

On 4/17/2018 at 10:10 AM, mrvco said:

 

Maybe neurotoxic was misspelled somehow and spell-check changed it to neurotypical?

 

My spell-checker suggests "neurotic".

[firedog]

10 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I have an Asgard II headphone amplifier for my HE-1000 v.2 headphones, and it is the best sounding headphone amp I've yet heard. So, some of their stuff is really good. I suspect that most people would find that a system built around a Schiit Gungnir Multi-bit DAC, (or even better, a 2nd Gen Yggy) a Freya preamp and a pair of Vidars used as mono-blocks would be a system worthy of some of the better speakers: Magneplanar MG 30.7s, Martin Logan Renaissance, Sound Labs Majestic 945PX, Wilson Audio Sabrina, etc. Their electronics, as far as my experience goes, are exceptionally well designed. but the final arbiters for the SQ of any system are the speakers and the room's acoustics. Even the Esoteric stuff would not impress if paired with speakers that were not up to them. 

You missed my other post where I mentioned that their better headphone amps are considered top notch. And the Freya is a very good piece of equipment; and yes, there's better -  several times it's price.

[firedog]

14 hours ago, Speedskater said:

Of course they (BJC or pro) cables are not audiophile-grade.

Some people would rather have an expensive audio grade cable that doesn't meet spec rather than a reasonably priced, properly made cable that does....especially if it looks exotic and is made from exotic materials.... Copper...meh!

[mav52]

13 hours ago, GUTB said:

The Cantons I think are $20k (Reference 4K?). The Salk Song 3As are $4k. The Songs have great parts: RAAL ribbons and Accuton drivers. I’ve been interested in Salk for a while, but they don’t offer any kind of return or in-home demo policy which makes me very hesitant to try them out. It doesn’t help that whenever I hear them at shows they tend to be inferior — not bad, just not as good as other manufacturers.

 

I’ll be honest. Most of the time if something makes me turn my head at these shows it often ends up being European in origin like this very good sounding (and looking) Auris system:

 

 

 

Regarding Salk, you're comment is a little in error.  I've been working with Jim Salk on some SoundScape 8's and there is a 30 day return on standard finish models only which is understandable.   Jim is easy to talk to and is full of knowledge on helping you match a speaker to your listening room and amp choice.

[gmgraves]

9 hours ago, firedog said:

You missed my other post where I mentioned that their better headphone amps are considered top notch. And the Freya is a very good piece of equipment; and yes, there's better -  several times it's price.

Yes, I did miss that. But you are right, I know two people who have a Freya, and one of them also has a pair of Vidar power amps. I haven't heard either of them, because one lives down near Santa Barbara CA and the other lives up in Mendocino County, way up on the Northern CA coast near Fort Brag and I'm in Nevada. But I trust that both of them have good ears and similar tastes to mine. They are both ecstatic about their systems, so I suspect that both systems sound superb. WRT my Asgard II. Folks at the PR firm were skeptical when I told them that I would be pairing the HE-1000 v.2 (which retail for $3K) with a $250 headphone amp. they wanted me to use them with a Woo WA5 tubed headphone amp (roughly $3.5K). I tried the Woo but the Asgard II sounded much better and that's what I went with! I'm not really a headphone fan (they're a necessary evil to me, and I use them when needed, but otherwise prefer speakers) but with the Schiit Asgard II, my personal HiFiMan EditionX v.2 are a real joy to listen to! (the HE-1000 v.2s were on loan from HiFiMan and weren't mine). 

[gmgraves]

15 hours ago, beancounter said:

 

Being a dumpster-diving, bottom feeding DIY type, I’m inclined to agree with your sentiments in a general sense. Good (and bad) sound comes in a wide ranges of price tags.  

 

Same system, most likely couldn’t differentiate DACs, within preference/taste (I personally think DAC and line level have matured, lots of great sound at most price points, but that’s another discussion). 

 

Amplification, I think a good listener could readily differentiate between Esoteric and Schiit.  My opinion. 

 

I dont think Schiit was embarrassed at all, and I think the Salk speakers were appropriate for thier target market. But Esoteric/Canton was in a different category than Schiit/Salk. 

Oh, I have no doubt that the Esoteric system is the better of the two, but how much better? I think most of today's electronics are so squeaky clean that it would be hard to put significant SQ difference in two wildly disparate ($ wise) systems down to electronics and none down to cables. But speakers will make most of the difference, 

[Ralf11]

speakers will make most of the difference, and with DSP...

[fas42]

What happens with playback is that there is a crossover zone - below the necessary competence "you hear the speakers"; above that, "you hear the recording" - the latter is always the same of course, which means that two completely different rigs at the necessary SQ will deliver the same experience ... you get the ah-hah! moment when the setup signature fades to the point of only hearing an old friend emerging, yet again ...

[ChrisG]

Uh huh... 

 

[gmgraves]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:56 PM, beancounter said:

Amplification, I think a good listener could readily differentiate between Esoteric and Schiit.  My opinion. 

I'd have to hear both of them before making venturing an opinion there. But it seems to me that while there is definitely a difference between amps, like the way it was 20-25 years ago, they are more alike these days than different. Still, vive le difference!

[adamdea]

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

vive le difference!

"La", Graves: write it out 50 times.

[gmgraves]

55 minutes ago, adamdea said:

"La", Graves: write it out 50 times.

Obviously I don't speak French!

[vmartell22]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, GUTB said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So what happened?

 

Esoteric was just next door. This allowed attendees to move immediately from one room to another. Esoteric was showing a full stack of thier latest separates plus a VPI Avenger for analog. Speakers were a pair of Cantons I didn’t get the model of.

 

The Schiit room, while not bad, was completely destroyed by the Esoteric room. Esoteric played one SACD that unfurled a massive soundstage that I could sense even not being in the best seat. The sound of the Esoteric system, both via SACD and vinyl was dynamic, resolving, extremely musical, collected, vibrant, both large and delicately structured. It was a system that got all the minor details right. Such a good setup. The Schiit setup, while unoffensive, clean, and musical in its own right, simply couldn’t face the Esoteric in inner detail, soundstage, reality and low-level dynamics.

 

Why did the Schiit system fail so hard vs the Esoteric? Part of the reason might have been the junk cabling used by Schiit. Peaking behind the system I was Blue Jeans speaker cables and mess of power bricks, basic cabling, etc. I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling, but I’m curious how close it would have come to the Esoteric had Schiit paid some basic attention to that area.

 

 

.

[Ralf11]

It is safe to say that someone was "embarrassed-at-axpona" but not Schiit.

[AudioDoctor]

On 4/15/2018 at 1:47 AM, firedog said:

Please explain why BlueJeans cable is no good. 

 

They don't cost enough for him...

[AudioDoctor]

Come on guys, GUTB is Neurotypical...  His parents had him tested.

[Milt99]

I've read probably half a dozen Axpona wrap-ups that featured the Salk\Schiit\Salkstream streamer room.

The overall impressions were positive.

BTW, not including the price of the Audioquest cabling, the Esoteric room msrp comes in at $90k.

Now we all know why it was the best, Jerry. The best!!! 

[gmgraves]

 

4 hours ago, vmartell22 said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So, If you have the Salk components you won't get Polio?