EtherREGEN: The long development thread. [Some Gen2 dev. pics and update starting on page 92.]

[R1200CL]

9 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

I know, that's why I use the ER downstream from my oMD. 🙂

You don’t have the “problem” with an optical endpoint. So in your case, it’s of cause absolutely meaningless to do otherwise. Unless you’re adding a second ER. Which people are doing. With good results. 

[MartinT]

5 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

@MartinT Thank you for sharing this. What is your device connecting the the ER A-side?

 

Sonore Signature Rendu SE.

[MartinT]

5 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

1st version or the new Deluxe? And what switch are you feeding the oM with? Might want to try a good commercial switch such as the Cisco 2960 (1gb model of course for 1st version oM) which is what I'm using. But of course it's all a moving target and relative to your own setup. 

 

I don't have one, just borrowed a friend's.  I don't need a switch (yes, I know ER is a switch), my purist signal path is:

4G+ Router > ER (with AfterDark clock) > Sig Rendu SE > Gustard U18 (with AfterDark clock) > Gustard X26 Pro

[Musikfan]

Hi,

 

I have a question regarding the use of the EtherRegen.  I have 3 endpoints. 

 

Is it possible to plug the router into the "B" side of the ER, plug an optical switch into the SFP cage on the "A" side of the ER and then plug the 3 endpoints into the switch ports?  

 

Will there be a benefit to doing that?  

 

Thanks!!

[Superdad]

16 minutes ago, Musikfan said:

I have a question regarding the use of the EtherRegen.  I have 3 endpoints. 

Is it possible to plug the router into the "B" side of the ER, plug an optical switch into the SFP cage on the "A" side of the ER and then plug the 3 endpoints into the switch ports?  

 

You could do that, and at least you are isolating the rest of your network by plugging the router/network feed into the 'B' port and crossing the "moat."  But you could do that and just use 3 of the 4 'A'-side RJ45s to feed your endpoints without introducing another switch downstream of the EtherREGEN. 

That might sound better--unless all your endpoints have optical input and the switch you are proposing has 4 SFP cages...

[Musikfan]

Thanks very much!  I followed your recommendation and hooked everything up.  Everything working properly.  

[Superdad]

UPDATE ON EtherREGEN Gen2 DEVELOPMENT AND ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT A FINAL RUN OF THE ORIGINAL:

 

About a month ago I posted a photo of the about to be received latest sub-system test board for EtherREGEN Gen2. This is what it looked like when we got it:

 

This is what it looks like after a month of @JohnSwenson testing, hacking, retesting, rehacking...

 

The main goals of this board were to get working all the required modes of the brand new--and rather special--PHY chip that we will be using two of per board, one on each side of the EtherREGEN's active differential isolation and reclocking "moat," and to do some initial tests of the code and switching that will be required in order to implement an SFP cage on the 'B' side.

Aside from a few hardware patches needed to correct a couple of errors (the messy stuff you see above), most of John's time was spent programming and puzzling out the many undocumented nuances of this brand new PHY, for which the documentation leaves a good bit to be desired (typical with new parts; first users are often really frustrated alpha-testers for the documentation ). The lead support engineer for this new chip is located in Germany, so the 9 hour time difference usually limited their exchanges to once per day.  

It is crazy just how sensitive these sorts of parts are to power-up and reset sequences. Everything has to be perfect in order for all the inter-chip negotiations to take place and for the modes to work.

Anyway, after a lot of work (and more than one thought of throwing in the towel--generally overcome by taking a couple day metal break from it) John has fully conquered these silly little 6mm square parts!   He is programming all the PHY's normal and extended registers (it actually gets done by programming the main switch chip which in turn programs the PHY with the parameters we give), and both the RGMII>Fiber and SGMII>copper modes are working. Hallelujah!!

Due to an oversight, the circuitry to switch to the second SFP still needs some work. John is going to quickly design another small board with the revised circuit--and will add some current sensing chips to that so that he can easily measure real-world 3.3V current draw of various SFP transceivers, since I am anxious to know for sure that we will come in under budget for total 'B'-side wattage with an active SFP cage.

 

So within a couple of weeks John should be able to move forward with layout of the next EtherREGEN Gen2 test board--the first that will be the fully unified design, with clock synthesizers, our magic reclocking flip-flops, all the final power networks, etc. We are still sorting out if the isolators will be on this next board. Probably.  And it will have lots of test point connectors and current sensing chips for measurements.  The prior test boards have all been 4-layer, but now is the stage where we will move onto a 6-layer board. As with the original EtherREGEN, 6-layers makes many things so much easier and allows for more optimized performance, impedance control, etc.

After this first "unified" test board we will move on to final pre-production/beta boards (will likely run 10 of those).

 

All of this will take time.  

And it was only this past week that the manufacturer of the aforementioned key PHY transceiver chip made the public announcement and released ordering details to their distributors. I have been in contact with one of those distributors for a month--and knew the release details before they did.  I submitted a $10K purchase order to them this past Thursday and expect confirmation this coming week. But the manufacturer already quoted us lead time for delivery: 8~16 weeks. I found that very odd. I mean which is it? 2 months or 4 months?!  And my inside source at the company tells me they already have the stock (perhaps as many as 500,000 pieces!).

Luckily we already have in hand plenty of sample pieces of the PHY--more than enough for all test boards, but not enough for 10 beta boards.

So I think the timing will work out.

 

Now if you have read this far, it should be clear to you that there is no way that actual EtherREGEN Gen2 production units will be done and delivered in 2023. Even with fast turns on all board spins and near-zero engineering/test hurdles--there are ALWAYS some to slow us down--the calendar will roll past. So early-2024 now seems very realistic.

 

Not having sold any EtherREGEN's since March 2022--pretty much just living off JS-2 sales and some drawing down of past cash reserves from massive EtherREGEN success--makes the above timeline as disappointing to us as it is for all our anxiously waiting fans. 

 

We are still sitting on about $80K of pre-purchased parts for EtherREGEN Gen2 first production. It will take about another $65K to actually produce the first run, and that does not include the cost of the above final rounds of test and pre-production boards.

 

Which brings me to some surprising and happy news:

A few weeks ago I discovered that all of the parts for the original EtherREGEN have at last come back into stock! So while EtherREGEN Gen2 development continues, we can not pass up the opportunity to quickly produce a final run of 250 units of the original model. There are a lot of people who have yet to experience the “magic” of the EtherREGEN—to learn why it was such a runaway success.

 

So drawing on some of the common parts stock we have, plus about another $65K for PCB assembly, parts, cases, power supplies, etc., we have everything in motion for original EtherREGENs ("Gen1" if you like) to be ready to ship mid-September! 

[We have 50 aluminum cases and power supplies here, with another 200 enclosures and 500 power adapters (buying those for Gen2 at same time) set to arrive in October. But I have a lot of travel--to two weddings--set for October so not sure how many units can ship that month.]

 

This final run of "Gen1" EtherREGENs will be priced at $680, $40 higher than its original price (set back in 2019). We won't profit any more on them since $40 is the amount our total parts cost rose for this run. Keeping the rise minimal since I expect Gen2 to end up in the low $700~$750 range and we need these originals to sell easily. I suppose, depending upon how they go, for a short while both Gen1 and Gen2 might be available at the same time.

I plan to hold back about 25 of these last EtherREGEN "Gen1" boards--to cover us for the rare warranty failure (including any still under warranty from the prior 3,200 sold). 

So really, only 225 will be available for sale these last months of 2023--and our dealers have already spoken up for a few dozen.

 

 

I will reactivate the AddToCart button on the EtherREGEN's web page tomorrow. I'm just studying the calendar to decide on exact ship week to promise to those who pre-order. So if you ever wanted to try an EtherREGEN--or if you want to get another for your main or second system--now is the time. It is the same proven terrific performer as loved the world over.  

Technically EtherREGEN Gen2 will be better in multiple ways and have new features, but the truth is, nobody, including us, will know what it will sound like until it is done.  But everyone knows how fine the first model sounds... 

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...homestretch, it sounds like, Alex. Continued success! 

[MarkusBarkus]

...and don't forget to get on that bike once and a while. For old times sake! 

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

UPDATE ON EtherREGEN Gen2 DEVELOPMENT AND ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT A FINAL RUN OF THE ORIGINAL:

 

About a month ago I posted a photo of the about to be received latest sub-system test board for EtherREGEN Gen2. This is what it looked like when we got it:

 

This is what it looks like after a month of @JohnSwenson testing, hacking, retesting, rehacking...

 

The main goals of this board were to get working all the required modes of the brand new--and rather special--PHY chip that we will be using two of per board, one on each side of the EtherREGEN's active differential isolation and reclocking "moat," and to do some initial tests of the code and switching that will be required in order to implement an SFP cage on the 'B' side.

Aside from a few hardware patches needed to correct a couple of errors (the messy stuff you see above), most of John's time was spent programming and puzzling out the many undocumented nuances of this brand new PHY, for which the documentation leaves a good bit to be desired (typical with new parts; first users are often really frustrated alpha-testers for the documentation ). The lead support engineer for this new chip is located in Germany, so the 9 hour time difference usually limited their exchanges to once per day.  

It is crazy just how sensitive these sorts of parts are to power-up and reset sequences. Everything has to be perfect in order for all the inter-chip negotiations to take place and for the modes to work.

Anyway, after a lot of work (and more than one thought of throwing in the towel--generally overcome by taking a couple day metal break from it) John has fully conquered these silly little 6mm square parts!   He is programming all the PHY's normal and extended registers (it actually gets done by programming the main switch chip which in turn programs the PHY with the parameters we give), and both the RGMII>Fiber and SGMII>copper modes are working. Hallelujah!!

Due to an oversight, the circuitry to switch to the second SFP still needs some work. John is going to quickly design another small board with the revised circuit--and will add some current sensing chips to that so that he can easily measure real-world 3.3V current draw of various SFP transceivers, since I am anxious to know for sure that we will come in under budget for total 'B'-side wattage with an active SFP cage.

 

So within a couple of weeks John should be able to move forward with layout of the next EtherREGEN Gen2 test board--the first that will be the fully unified design, with clock synthesizers, our magic reclocking flip-flops, all the final power networks, etc. We are still sorting out if the isolators will be on this next board. Probably.  And it will have lots of test point connectors and current sensing chips for measurements.  The prior test boards have all been 4-layer, but now is the stage where we will move onto a 6-layer board. As with the original EtherREGEN, 6-layers makes many things so much easier and allows for more optimized performance, impedance control, etc.

After this first "unified" test board we will move on to final pre-production/beta boards (will likely run 10 of those).

 

All of this will take time.  

And it was only this past week that the manufacturer of the aforementioned key PHY transceiver chip made the public announcement and released ordering details to their distributors. I have been in contact with one of those distributors for a month--and knew the release details before they did.  I submitted a $10K purchase order to them this past Thursday and expect confirmation this coming week. But the manufacturer already quoted us lead time for delivery: 8~16 weeks. I found that very odd. I mean which is it? 2 months or 4 months?!  And my inside source at the company tells me they already have the stock (perhaps as many as 500,000 pieces!).

Luckily we already have in hand plenty of sample pieces of the PHY--more than enough for all test boards, but not enough for 10 beta boards.

So I think the timing will work out.

 

Now if you have read this far, it should be clear to you that there is no way that actual EtherREGEN Gen2 production units will be done and delivered in 2023. Even with fast turns on all board spins and near-zero engineering/test hurdles--there are ALWAYS some to slow us down--the calendar will roll past. So early-2024 now seems very realistic.

 

Not having sold any EtherREGEN's since March 2022--pretty much just living off JS-2 sales and some drawing down of past cash reserves from massive EtherREGEN success--makes the above timeline as disappointing to us as it is for all our anxiously waiting fans. 

 

We are still sitting on about $80K of pre-purchased parts for EtherREGEN Gen2 first production. It will take about another $65K to actually produce the first run, and that does not include the cost of the above final rounds of test and pre-production boards.

 

Which brings me to some surprising and happy news:

A few weeks ago I discovered that all of the parts for the original EtherREGEN have at last come back into stock! So while EtherREGEN Gen2 development continues, we can not pass up the opportunity to quickly produce a final run of 250 units of the original model. There are a lot of people who have yet to experience the “magic” of the EtherREGEN—to learn why it was such a runaway success.

 

So drawing on some of the common parts stock we have, plus about another $65K for PCB assembly, parts, cases, power supplies, etc., we have everything in motion for original EtherREGENs ("Gen1" if you like) to be ready to ship mid-September! 

[We have 50 aluminum cases and power supplies here, with another 200 enclosures and 500 power adapters (buying those for Gen2 at same time) set to arrive in October. But I have a lot of travel--to two weddings--set for October so not sure how many units can ship that month.]

 

This final run of "Gen1" EtherREGENs will be priced at $680, $40 higher than its original price (set back in 2019). We won't profit any more on them since $40 is the amount our total parts cost rose for this run. Keeping the rise minimal since I expect Gen2 to end up in the low $700~$750 range and we need these originals to sell easily. I suppose, depending upon how they go, for a short while both Gen1 and Gen2 might be available at the same time.

I plan to hold back about 25 of these last EtherREGEN "Gen1" boards--to cover us for the rare warranty failure (including any still under warranty from the prior 3,200 sold). 

So really, only 225 will be available for sale these last months of 2023--and our dealers have already spoken up for a few dozen.

 

 

I will reactivate the AddToCart button on the EtherREGEN's web page tomorrow. I'm just studying the calendar to decide on exact ship week to promise to those who pre-order. So if you ever wanted to try an EtherREGEN--or if you want to get another for your main or second system--now is the time. It is the same proven terrific performer as loved the world over.  

Technically EtherREGEN Gen2 will be better in multiple ways and have new features, but the truth is, nobody, including us, will know what it will sound like until it is done.  But everyone knows how fine the first model sounds... 

 

good to see that your not-so-secret weapon, the table tennis table, is still part of the production process.  Rumor has it that Magico included such a table in their design of the mighty M9s after tracking the success of the eR gen1.  

[R1200CL]

Any update regarding new JS-4 ?

[Superdad]

17 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Any update regarding new JS-4 ?

Thanks for asking.  

Five final boards have been built--and the design is fully tested and working and sounding great!

The only hold up is with me and John on the drawings and milling of the cases for the 3 beta units that I want to build and circulate before telling our board house to go ahead with assembly of the first 115 big circuit boards (for which they are already in possession of all purchased parts). The transformers for production are already here as well.

Here is a pic of one board with its cute little 3-LED PCB, the transformer, and a SAPPHIRE DC cable with SpeakON plug--sitting in front of the other 3 unopened beta boards:

 

My dear friend and ex-partner from Hovland Company was the industrial design genius behind all the following beautiful amps and preamps:

 

I have been most fortunate that he has in the past generously lent his time, skills, and eyes to the CAD drawings for milling and silkscreening of each UpTone product. And early last year I sent him parts, measurements, files, and details about the chassis for JS-4.  Sadly, his heath has been failing, and a couple of months ago it became apparent that he was not going to be able to complete the project for me.  Since he does all his CAD work with Vectorworks, and since I could use his JS-2 files as a starting point for the JS-4, I went ahead and subscribed to a Vectorworks license.  There is a bit of a learning curve to the software--and this sort of thing is somewhat outside my comfort zone--but I am making progress. The drawing for the bottom panel--with all its PCB and transformer mounting holes--as well as the front panel are done, and I have begun work on the many required rear panel openings and detailed legend text. 

John Swenson has a very cool new CNC mill (https://www.makera.com/products/carvera), and has been practicing with it, buying mill and drill bits, and setting up to mill the JS-4 beta unit back and bottom panels. I already sent him a bunch of spare blank panels to test on, and I'll send him all the panels to mill for the 3 beta units as soon as we are both ready.  

 

Of course all this has to dovetail with the important work of finishing EtherREGEN Gen2 development and testing, and even after we go though the JS-4 beta tour there will be lead time with our chassis supplier in Japan. Thus I am clearly not ready to announce availability date for production JS-4 units. It is a fabulous sounding supply and we are confident the audiophile community is going to love it. But as with all things UpTone these days, a lot of patience is required.

 

So there is the long answer to your question! 

[My father, at 93.5 years, passed away late Friday night. It was very much expected, but I am still feeling a bit numb and not yet ready to dwell on it. So writing long forum update posts is nice distraction/therapy for me this week.]

 

[PYP]

Condolences, Alex.  Sorry to hear about your loss.  

[MarkusBarkus]

...expected or not, a loss is an emotional blow. Glad you're keeping busy as a distraction. Best from Rochester.

[richard_crl032]

Hey Alex, Sorry for your loss 🤧  Take care ! 

[Musikfan]

Alex, Sorry to hear of your loss.  My condolences.

[Kamran]

Alex, sorry about your loss. May he rest in peace.

[Superdad]

Thank you all for your kind words and wishes.

But please let's move onward...

 

To happier news:

Some light editing of the EtherREGEN's web page has been done and the AddToCart button is now back and activated for pre-orders of the wonderful original EtherREGEN!   https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen

 

A limited number of units can be shipped by September 25th (maybe sooner)--and as long as the web page and order acknowledgement e-mail says that date at the time of order then that will be your ship week.  

 

We have some dealer orders coming in this week (I do not yet know the quantities) and those will pull some from these first 50 units for September.

After those 50 we have more cases and power adapters arriving early-October.  We will test all 250 circuit boards and my assistant will affix heat sinks and install in cases, but due to a lot of planned travel I am not yet quoting shipment week for units in October.

 

Many (most?) of you reading this already own an original EtherREGEN. And we know a lot of you are waiting for Gen2 to be done and available.  

But please, if you enjoy the original, tell some friends about it, or buy another one for yourself. It really will help a lot. 

 

Just to be clear though, we will not be offering any trade-in upgrade path or discounts to go from original ("Gen1") EtherREGEN to EtherREGEN Gen2.  It will be an all-new board, in a different case (likely 50mm longer if we do the 'B' side SFP cage port), and we can not buy back and resell used goods. Since Gen2 demand will be high and the original works and sounds great, I think most people will do much better selling off their original unit privately (or keeping it!). 

[Mops911]

I am enjoying a new system (not hifi or highend but MUSIC system ;-) ). Today I had to move it around to prepare for my upcoming wedding and moved it back in place when some prep work was done. I have friends in my house and wanted to demonstrate the system and something was missing. I could not tell my friends "you know, normally it sounds even better" ... It was what it was...then I realized that I did not connect the ER...and voila, bamm, the known musicality and space was back. Quite amazing for a six figure system to rely and profit from a few hundred $$ device. I was surprised HOW how much it changed...could not say enough good things IF you run a computer system as frontend!! It also shows, your speakers can be the best in the world driving by 6 mono amps but the source still matters ;-) or even, especially with such a revealing and musical system, the source is the source, what is lost there can never be retrieved ... 

 

 

[simon_pepper]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

 

Also making good progress on the new Power supply, and EtherREGEN projects.

Can’t believe it will be 4-years since I received my EtherREGEN in November ‘19 before we all knew anything about Covid and about what was to happen worldwide.

Just goes to show, we all next know what is around the corner, but as long we all continue to do the right things, it will all be ok.

[hifibob]

Thanks for all your work and updates, in spite of setbacks and your loss!  Looking forward to both products and would like to post my vote for silver options for both units!!!!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Wow, thanks for the update Alex. First, I wish you and your family the best, given the situation. It's never easy. 

 

Second, you brought back some great memories with those Hovland photos. I dreamed of owning Hovland gear back in the day, but could never afford it. When you and I first met at CES in 2008, and talked about Ethernet audio(!), I felt so welcomed and like I'd hit the audio lottery. Hovland and Ethernet audio in one discussion, it didn't get any better than that at CES 2008, when literally every other manufacturer looked at me like I had an eyeball in the middle of my forehead because I mentioned the words computer and audiophile in the same sentence :~)

 

Anyway, I can't wait for Gen2 to come out!

[SQFIRST]

10 hours ago, Mops911 said:

I have friends in my house and wanted to demonstrate the system and something was missing.

This is a natural phenomenon that afflicts most audiophiles. Along with the mysterious occurrence of guests appearing out of nowhere whenever the system is in flux.

 

@Superdad exciting times ahead with only the last mile left on the ER2!

[Mike Rubin]

Very sorry for your family’s and your loss, Alex. Please accept my condolences. 

[kennyb123]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:24 PM, Superdad said:

My father, at 93.5 years, passed away late Friday night.

 Very sorry for your loss.