GigaFOIL ethernet optical isolation

[asdf1000]

I posted about this in another thread but it goes lost in the SOtM Trifecta chat :-)

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/barn-gigafoilv4-–-inline

 

Their "FOIL" trademark stands for fiber optic isolation link so I assume it really is fiber optic.

 

This is a brochure for their older model: https://www.djmelectronics.com/GigaFOILv3 Brochure.pdf

 

Has anyone had any experience with any of their products?

 

I guess it appears to function like a pair of FMC's inside the one box, with one 5Vdc power input.

 

For background I do use a pair of TP-Link FMC's and I've been looking for a one box solution.

 

The price is very high though to replace a pair of cheap FMC's with one box, unless it has some other features like nice internal power supply etc.

 

I'm hoping we get to see pics of the inside board/s to see what they're really doing in there

 

We'll learn more over time I guess

 

[jos]

I am very interested in this product too. Right now I’m using the Sonore ultraRenu (NAA) in combination with 4 Jitterbugs; one in my NAS, one in my router and two in my iMac. Is this enough, or do I need to do more to reach the best possible situation. In my setup? Before I was using a USB cable and the USB Regen between my iMac and DAC. I am also very interested in the best combination of products, or is just one product enough?

[mourip]

On 3/7/2018 at 4:13 PM, Em2016 said:

I posted about this in another thread but it goes lost in the SOtM Trifecta chat :-)

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/barn-gigafoilv4-–-inline

 

Their "FOIL" trademark stands for fiber optic isolation link so I assume it really is fiber optic.

 

This is a brochure for their older model: https://www.djmelectronics.com/GigaFOILv3 Brochure.pdf

 

Has anyone had any experience with any of their products?

 

I guess it appears to function like a pair of FMC's inside the one box, with one 5Vdc power input.

 

For background I do use a pair of TP-Link FMC's and I've been looking for a one box solution.

 

The price is very high though to replace a pair of cheap FMC's with one box, unless it has some other features like nice internal power supply etc.

 

I'm hoping we get to see pics of the inside board/s to see what they're really doing in there

 

We'll learn more over time I guess

 

I used a pair of FMC's for a while to isolate the ethernet link between by Dante based Focusrite D16 and my music server. Basically I just strapped them together and used the shortest lenght of fiber I could find to connect them. Both were powered by LPS's. I also used FMC's for the link between my server's second ethernet port and my LAN switch. I used an LPS on the server side.

 

After using these for a while I decided to remove them to see if I could hear a difference. I could not, and so went back to a simpler system using just copper cable. Obviously there are other factors that could come into play such as my grounding and AC isolation system or the decreased load on my multi-outlet LPS's. I am however enjoying having the less complex setup.

 

YMMV...

 

PS. Anyone who would like a good deal on some FMC's and fiber feel free to PM me :-)

[Stings]

So the best solution for Ethernet to Toslink right now is the Sonore UltraRenu and a Giga Foilv4 - inline Ethernet filter $475? If you us the Giga Foilv4 do you still need a Linear power supply or with the filter take care of it?

 

Stings

[zoom25]

Before finding "a or THE" solution, shouldn't it be important to correctly identify the problem(s).

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, zoom25 said:

Before finding "a or THE" solution, shouldn't it be important to correctly identify the problem(s).

 

You are killing the Audiophool Dream

[zoom25]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

You are killing the Audiophool Dream

 

I spent the past few months looking at this area and meticulously experimenting with lots of devices (10) and cables (30+) and testing out the various assumptions that people seem to have and what is already established. Some things worked as expected, and results were in favour with the established knowledge. In other cases, I found why some people might even like some things are not good, especially in short-term listening. In some cases, my own results went against what most audiophiles think, but does agree with networking specialists.

 

It's good to systematically experiment and see if you are actually affecting the variable that you THINK you are affecting.

 

Noise is often discussed as a 'problem'...it's either noise that's coming IN, or noise going OUT, or noise already on the cable. You can make up logical experiments at home to test for this.

 

Other things like signal integrity and cable reflections becomes hard to experiment on like with noise above, aside from blind testing. You need measurements to really test these things.

 

After all this time, some things make sense, while others still don't. I know how things sound in my rig and what patterns emerged.

 

So when I see any devices or solutions being offered by manufacturers, I do question the merits and whether they are actually correctly tackling a problem, or are even aware of what the problem might be. I wonder if they might be actually making things worse or just making things different and just taking a shot in the dark.

[jos]

13 hours ago, Stings said:

So the best solution for Ethernet to Toslink right now is the Sonore UltraRenu and a Giga Foilv4 - inline Ethernet filter $475? If you us the Giga Foilv4 do you still need a Linear power supply or with the filter take care of it?

 

Stings

I believe there is an LPS included with GigaFoil4 to power it. An NAA is, I believe, always better than a USB cable, but there are more NAA's available to reach an improvement over a USB cable.

[davide256]

 

13 hours ago, zoom25 said:

 

I spent the past few months looking at this area and meticulously experimenting with lots of devices (10) and cables (30+) and testing out the various assumptions that people seem to have and what is already established. Some things worked as expected, and results were in favour with the established knowledge. In other cases, I found why some people might even like some things are not good, especially in short-term listening. In some cases, my own results went against what most audiophiles think, but does agree with networking specialists.

 

It's good to systematically experiment and see if you are actually affecting the variable that you THINK you are affecting.

 

Noise is often discussed as a 'problem'...it's either noise that's coming IN, or noise going OUT, or noise already on the cable. You can make up logical experiments at home to test for this.

 

Other things like signal integrity and cable reflections becomes hard to experiment on like with noise above, aside from blind testing. You need measurements to really test these things.

 

After all this time, some things make sense, while others still don't. I know how things sound in my rig and what patterns emerged.

 

So when I see any devices or solutions being offered by manufacturers, I do question the merits and whether they are actually correctly tackling a problem, or are even aware of what the problem might be. I wonder if they might be actually making things worse or just making things different and just taking a shot in the dark.

 

In the FWIW column I experienced that UPNP/DLNA play was sensitive to Ethernet cables whereas Roon with its RAAT protocol was not. YMMV

[zoom25]

10 hours ago, davide256 said:

 

 

In the FWIW column I experienced that UPNP/DLNA play was sensitive to Ethernet cables whereas Roon with its RAAT protocol was not. YMMV

 

 

Interesting. I tried to use some of the UPNP/DLNA on Mac, but found it troublesome. I gave Minimserver and Linsky a shot, but it was problematic for me. Audirvana Plus worked better for me, but it wasn't perfect either. I didn't get much time with DLNA. On the other hand, Roon is a lot more stable. It just works so well. No hiccups.

 

I did find Roon in my setup with my endpoint to be sensitive to the cabling, power supplies, and/or routers vs. switch vs. bridged connections.

 

Although, I don't think the cables themselves are creating any problems, aside from any shielded cables that are grounded which is another issue. But as far as any double floating shielded cables or any Fluke tested and passed UTP cable from any manufacturer sounding different from another, I don't think it's the cable itself influencing the sound by picking up more noise or letting more noise out. Rather, I think the cable and it's electrical properties (impedance, return loss), while especially focusing on length, may be influencing the behaviour in the PHY (which may be sub par) in some of these devices. Varying the cable might result in a different or better sound as it can perhaps make it easier for the PHY.

 

I seriously think length should be more looked at among people who hear differences due to ethernet cables. Aside from a host of Fluke tested Cat5e, Cat6, Cat6a S/STP from many manufacturers, I had a lot of Belden bonded cables that were terminated and tested by Belden. These cables remain very uniform throughout it's length. I had the Belden at varying lengths, and I had multiple versions at each length. This way it could eliminate possibility that there was some fault within one cable vs. the rest. The results with the Belden matched the results from the non Belden as well. I had lengths as short as 1 feet and lengths as long as 60 feet.

 

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that some people may hear difference between cables, especially at short lengths with particular networking components.

[thyname]

It appears the GigaFOILv4 is available online now. The price is $550 plus $20 shipping in CONUS.

[Ralf11]

I'd rather buy a GigaFunky

[Mercman]

On 1/22/2019 at 1:11 PM, Ralf11 said:

I'd rather buy a GigaFunky

DJM sells primarily to companies-engineers looking for EMI reduction. The audiophile market is a side-line for them.

 

 

[tomjtx]

570.00 shipped. Seems like one would get a lot more Flexibility and SQ from an etherRegen. I'm sure some will post shootouts between the two :-).

 

 

[KingRex]

On 4/24/2018 at 4:21 PM, zoom25 said:

 

 

Interesting. I tried to use some of the UPNP/DLNA on Mac, but found it troublesome. I gave Minimserver and Linsky a shot, but it was problematic for me. Audirvana Plus worked better for me, but it wasn't perfect either. I didn't get much time with DLNA. On the other hand, Roon is a lot more stable. It just works so well. No hiccups.

 

I did find Roon in my setup with my endpoint to be sensitive to the cabling, power supplies, and/or routers vs. switch vs. bridged connections.

 

Although, I don't think the cables themselves are creating any problems, aside from any shielded cables that are grounded which is another issue. But as far as any double floating shielded cables or any Fluke tested and passed UTP cable from any manufacturer sounding different from another, I don't think it's the cable itself influencing the sound by picking up more noise or letting more noise out. Rather, I think the cable and it's electrical properties (impedance, return loss), while especially focusing on length, may be influencing the behaviour in the PHY (which may be sub par) in some of these devices. Varying the cable might result in a different or better sound as it can perhaps make it easier for the PHY.

 

I seriously think length should be more looked at among people who hear differences due to ethernet cables. Aside from a host of Fluke tested Cat5e, Cat6, Cat6a S/STP from many manufacturers, I had a lot of Belden bonded cables that were terminated and tested by Belden. These cables remain very uniform throughout it's length. I had the Belden at varying lengths, and I had multiple versions at each length. This way it could eliminate possibility that there was some fault within one cable vs. the rest. The results with the Belden matched the results from the non Belden as well. I had lengths as short as 1 feet and lengths as long as 60 feet.

 

Based on my own experience, I am not surprised that some people may hear difference between cables, especially at short lengths with particular networking components.

Way back in 2014 or so i was making my spdif out of cat 7.  Changing the length affect the clarity. I was told there are reflections that can cancel or amplify based on how long the cable is.

[fsmithjack]

I just bought one of these GigaFoil v4 Inline Ethernet Filters and its awesome. I power it with a Uptone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply via quality Ghent DC Power Cables paired  wit the excellent: The Linear Soulution OCXO Audiophile Ethernet Switch and LPS and the combo is excellent. These feed my Ethernet In/Roon Ready Bricasti Design M1SE Dac/Network Player.  

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/djm-electronics-gigafoilv4-%E2%80%93-inline-ethernet-filter

 

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/js-2-linear-power-supply

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc01.html

 

https://audiobacon.net/2018/09/28/the-linear-solution-ocxo-audiophile-switch-reference-ethernet-cable-the-missing-pieces-of-digital-audio/

 

http://www.bricasti.com/en/consumer/m1se.php

 

 

[jabbr]

On 1/24/2019 at 5:05 AM, Mercman said:

DJM sells primarily to companies-engineers looking for EMI reduction. The audiophile market is a side-line for them.

 

 

Interesting. Is isolation broke by a shared power/ground? 

[Matias]

More info on this here:

https://www.audioshark.org/computer-digital-audio-11/gigafoil-v4-inline-ethernet-filter-15781.html

 

Keces P3 is a recommended power supply.