SMPS and grounding

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

So the 200W model do have overvoltage protection from the begining? 

 

It is my understanding that the original larger models did not have this protection.

 The replacement module sent to my friend did however have this protection installed.

The variable output is the one more likely to fail when adjusted to a very low voltage due to the much higher voltage dissipated in the voltage regulator in the form of heat.

[octaviars]

30 minutes ago, sandyk said:

It is my understanding that the original larger models did not have this protection.

 

According to Larry all 200W models have both overvoltage and overcurrent protection on all 4 outputs.

 

But then again all can happen and perhaps some failures were made by the users them self doing connections with power on and heavy load on the variable output.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

According to Larry all 200W models have both overvoltage and overcurrent protection on all 4 outputs.

 

But then again all can happen and perhaps some failures were made by the users them self doing connections with power on and heavy load on the variable output.

 

Perhaps all recent models do now after some expensive exercises for HDPlex?

 For example, where with a 300W HDPlex (IIRC) of a friend, it  had a failure that destroyed an expensive USB card. 

They sent back a replacement module with overvoltage and over current protection.

The original did NOT have protection, or it would not have failed so spectacularly with FULL rectified voltage at it's output !

I have already mentioned the heavy load on the variable outlet, where the heat dissipation  would be very high when adjusted down to close to 5V . However, the Current limitation at lower voltages should have been made very clear to purchasers in the supplied manual.

[agladstone]

29 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Perhaps all recent models do now after some expensive exercises for HDPlex?

 For example, where with a 300W HDPlex (IIRC) of a friend, it  had a failure that destroyed an expensive USB card. 

They sent back a replacement module with overvoltage and over current protection.

The original did NOT have protection, or it would not have failed so spectacularly with FULL rectified voltage at it's output !

I have already mentioned the heavy load on the variable outlet, where the heat dissipation  would be very high when adjusted down to close to 5V . However, the Current limitation at lower voltages should have been made very clear to purchasers in the supplied manual.

The new 200W has protection, the original 100W models did not! 

I just got a HDPlex 200W today and I opened it up, it looks like an entirely different power supply (for the better) on the inside! 

Ive decided for the two 100W’s I have that I will only use the lower XLR connections and not the two top GL-2 ones where the variable is located. 

I also just disconnected the the variable switch from the board too just to be safe (it was connected to Board via a connected plug, I just unplugged it, hopefully I’m correct in thinking this will be fine to use without it attached and perhaps potentially safer ?? )

[Superdad]

Gentlemen:

While I know it was me who mentioned concern--about using HDPLEX units to charge LPS-1s--I now ask that discussion of HDPLEX power supplies be taken to a thread not located in the UpTone Audio sponsored forum area.  

I simply do not feel it is polite to the good folks at HDPLEX for such discussion to take place in our forum.

Thanks,

--Alex C.

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Gentlemen:

While I know it was me who mentioned concern--about using HDPLEX units to charge LPS-1s--I now ask that discussion of HDPLEX power supplies be taken to a thread not located in the UpTone Audio sponsored forum area.  

I simply do not feel it is polite to the good folks at HDPLEX for such discussion to take place in our forum.

Thanks,

--Alex C.

Agreed! It should be in a new thread dedicated to discussion. 

[asdf1000]

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

I understand there's a few recommended network switches that you've tested for grounding.

 

For someone looking to see if their current switch (or existing router with built in 5 port switch for example) will do, how do we do a continuity check with a grounded SMPS and the switch?

 

I assume it's the PCB ground plane we need to do a check on, not the metal case. Does this mean the switch NEEDS to be opened for a continuity test?

 

It's easy enough to do a continuity check with a computer or anything with a USB port (for example) by using the outer shell of a USB cable for example.

 

But I'm just trying to figure out how to do it with a switch.

 

Cheers!

 

[octaviars]

2 hours ago, Em2016 said:

For someone looking to see if their current switch (or existing router with built in 5 port switch for example) will do, how do we do a continuity check with a grounded SMPS and the switch?

 

 

It is not so easy that the -0V and the ground plane is connected in the switch. I think John found out that for example Netgear FS,GS 105 and 108 had a special connection on the filter/magnetics on the LAN ports that if you grounded the -0V that the high impedance leakage coming on the LAN cables and from the SMPS was shunted out to ground when the PSU was grounded.

 

So to see if a switch does this you must measure the leakage and that is not possible to do with out equipment that can measure that sort of leakage.

 

If you use a Netgear Switch of the models that John suggested grounding the -0V is a must either you use a SMPS or a linear PSU to get the shunt effect of the leakage to ground that comes from other equipment connected on the LAN cables.

[tboooe]

23 hours ago, octaviars said:

Modded my Netgear GS108 today, easy to connect ground to the -0V inside the switch. From the threaded insert a ground cable will go to the outlet feeding my PSU that supplies the 12Vdc to the switch.

 

 

This looks really clean.  So let me make sure I understand what you did here:

1. Connect one end of a wire the base of the switch
2. Solder the other end of the DC input barrel >> where are you exactly soldering to on the barrel?  I am still waiting for my switch to arrive.

[octaviars]

Just now, tboooe said:

This looks really clean.  So let me make sure I understand what you did here:

1. Connect one end of a wire the base of the switch
2. Solder the other end of the DC input barrel >> where are you exactly soldering to on the barrel?  

 

Yes one end is connected to the chassi and the insert so I have a place to connect my groundcable. 

 

On the side of the barrel there is a metalpart that is connected to the -0V inside the barrel so I just soldered on the wire there.

[agladstone]

All:

I have been making these ground JSGT devices and I have all Ghent Canare / Oyiade DC cables now. With these JSGT contraptions I’m making I’m concerned that all these home made JSGT screw down DC female and male connectors I’m making are taking away from the benefits of using the Carare / Oyiade DC Cables from Ghent?? 

I unscrewed the Oyiade plug and I see a clip that holds the connectors to the wire, is that clip connected to ground? I wonder is there is some way to just connect a ground wire to the actual Oyiade plug itself? If not is there a better way to ground each device like for example what @octaviars did with the Netgear Switch? 

Any thoughts? 

[JohnSwenson]

15 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi @JohnSwenson

 

I understand there's a few recommended network switches that you've tested for grounding.

 

For someone looking to see if their current switch (or existing router with built in 5 port switch for example) will do, how do we do a continuity check with a grounded SMPS and the switch?

 

I assume it's the PCB ground plane we need to do a check on, not the metal case. Does this mean the switch NEEDS to be opened for a continuity test?

 

It's easy enough to do a continuity check with a computer or anything with a USB port (for example) by using the outer shell of a USB cable for example.

 

But I'm just trying to figure out how to do it with a switch.

 

Cheers!

 

It's more complicated then that. The particular specified switches will shunt high impedance leakage from an up-stream device IF properly grounded. Other switches do NOT shunt the high impedance leakage from up stream devices EVEN IF PROPERLY GROUNDED. So just checking for grounding is not sufficient. It has to be something that shunts the leakage when grounded, most devices don't.

 

Actually measuring a switch or router or whatever is not an easy task, it takes specialized test equipment and knowing what you are doing. I can't test every model on the planet, so I have come up with some some inexpensive models that DO shunt leakage when properly grounded just use one of these as the last Ethernet device before your endpoint and it doesn't matter what else is in your system (from a leakage standpoint). Most people in audiophiledom can afford one of these switches, so just get one of these, ground it properly and be done with it.

 

John S.

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Actually measuring a switch or router or whatever is not an easy task, it takes specialized test equipment and knowing what you are doing

 

Cheers John, all is clear.

[R1200CL]

7 hours ago, agladstone said:

If not is there a better way to ground e

 

Not better, but easy. Just wrap the 24 awg around the barrel and inject ?

 

 

 

7 hours ago, agladstone said:

I unscrewed the Oyiade plug and I see a clip that holds the connectors to the wire, is that clip connected to ground?

 

Picture ??????

 

7 hours ago, agladstone said:

I wonder is there is some way to just connect a ground wire to the actual Oyiade plug itself?

 

Yes,  you email Ghent and magic may happen.

 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

Deleted

[tboooe]

22 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

Yes one end is connected to the chassi and the insert so I have a place to connect my groundcable. 

 

On the side of the barrel there is a metalpart that is connected to the -0V inside the barrel so I just soldered on the wire there.

Thank you...ok so dumb question...attaching the ground wire the chassis is just as effective as having it go to my AC house ground?

[octaviars]

2 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Thank you...ok so dumb question...attaching the ground wire the chassis is just as effective as having it go to my AC house ground?

 

I have connected the insert in the chassi to the AC ground feeding my PSU otherwise it will not work.

[tboooe]

24 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

I have connected the insert in the chassi to the AC ground feeding my PSU otherwise it will not work.

ahhh...I didnt see that in your pics...now it makes sense!

[octaviars]

6 hours ago, tboooe said:

ahhh...I didnt see that in your pics...now it makes sense!

 

No problem 

 

This is how it looks when I got it connected in my cabinet. 

 

 

Ghent Canare 4S6 DC cables and Ghent ET02 ethernetcables. 200W HD Plex feeding 5vdc to ISP fiberconverter, 19vdc to router, 12vdc to GS108 switch (-0V grounded) 19vdc to NUC with Roon ROCK.

Endpoint is a SOtM SMS Ultra (PSU will be a Paul Hynes SR4 when it arrives, lost by UPS since 20th December).

 

[agladstone]

4 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

No problem 

 

This is how it looks when I got it connected in my cabinet. 

 

 

Ghent Canare 4S6 DC cables and Ghent ET02 ethernetcables. 200W HD Plex feeding 5vdc to ISP fiberconverter, 19vdc to router, 12vdc to GS108 switch (-0V grounded) 19vdc to NUC with Roon ROCK.

Endpoint is a SOtM SMS Ultra (PSU will be a Paul Hynes SR4 when it arrives, lost by UPS since 20th December).

 

That looks great! Very impressed by your labels for each cable too! My entire network and DC Cables / LPSU chain looks like a war zone right now and also with all these home made female male screw down connectors and ground cables flying around everywhere! I am envious of nice and neat yours looks! 

[agladstone]

23 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Not better, but easy. Just wrap the 24 awg around the barrel and inject ?

 

 

 

 

Picture ??????

 

 

Yes,  you email Ghent and magic may happen.

 

 

 

 

Thanks ! 

So you are just wrapping the other end of the ground wire around the outside of the dc barrel? Do you have a picture of the cable wrapped around the barrel but not plugged in so I can see exactly how to do it? It seems like a much easier way to do it then the female DC / Male DC screwdown plugs going in and out of the device and then the Ghent dc cables hanging out of them! 

[R1200CL]

14 hours ago, agladstone said:

So you are just wrapping the other end of the ground wire around the outside of the dc barrel?

 

YES

 

14 hours ago, agladstone said:

It seems like a much easier way to do it then the female DC / Male DC screwdown plugs going in and out of the device and then the Ghent dc cables hanging out of them! 

 

Yes, very easy. I use a small 24 AWG. Almost anyting will do.

 

14 hours ago, agladstone said:

Do you have a picture of the cable wrapped around the barrel but not plugged in so I can see exactly how to do it?

 

You're joking, right ?

 

EDIT:

Well anyway I just did this photosession  ONLY for you:

 

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

YES

 

 

Yes, very easy. I use a small 24 AWG. Almost anyting will do.

 

 

You're joking, right ?

 

EDIT:

Well anyway I just did this photosession  ONLY for you:

 

Thank you sooo much!! Actually just the last picture would have worked, but your step by step pictures are amazing! Very nice pair of wire strippers you have too! I just have the basic “old fashion” kind and they are such a pain to work with!! I’m going to use your method from now on, much easier and also so much less DYI stuff in the chain!! 

[brother love]

Great informative thread!  I’ve read it cover-to-cover, but still could use some guidance/ recommendations please based on my recent order: (2) Netgear FS105 switches & (2) 3 ft. UTP Cat. 6 ethernet cables.

 

Current: modem/ router >>> PC music server w/ 6ft. STP Cat7 ethernet cable & NAA mini PC w/ 30 ft. STP Cat7 ethernet cable >>> USB cable >>> IsoRegen >>> Gustard X20u DAC >>> HQPlayer DSD256 upsampling

 

Planned: modem/ router >>> 3 ft. unshielded Cat. 6 cable >>> Netgear FS105 >>> PC music server w/ 6ft. shielded Cat7 ethernet cable (metal jacks removed) & 30 ft. shielded Cat7 ethernet cable >>> Netgear FS105 w/ JS grounded PS (3ft. from audio system) >>> 3 ft. unshielded Cat6 cable >>> NAA mini PC  >>> USB cable >>> IsoRegen >>> Gustard X20u DAC >>> HQPlayer DSD256 upsampling

 

Would it be better to just use a single Netgear switch w/ JS grounded PS close to the modem/ router & go with an unshielded 30 ft. ethernet cable to NAA?

 

I do have a 20 ft. UTP Cat5E cable & a 6 ft. UTP Cat 5 cable that could be used to substitute for the shielded Cat 7 cables w/ removed metal jacks if that helps any.

 

[Cornan]

16 hours ago, brother love said:

Would it be better to just use a single Netgear switch w/ JS grounded PS close to the modem/ router & go with an unshielded 30 ft. ethernet cable to NAA?

 

I would recommend using a single Netgear switch close to the NAA. JSGT (JS grounded) on both main router and switch. If the router is wireless I would also consider to get a TP-Link RE650 or RE450 and connect it to the switch as a wireless bridge/wireless adapter with short cable and loose the 30 ft. ethernet cable. It will provide great isolation and SI. Also consider ethernet cables like Ghent Audio ET01 or ET02 for the short runs. Just my two SEK.