SMPS and grounding

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, agladstone said:

Will this SMPS grounding have any benefit to grounding the DC input (cable) from a linear power supply (HDPlex) going into a Mytek Brooklyn DAC? 

Mom assuming since it’s being fed by a LPSU and not a SMPS the answer is no? 

Would there be any benefit in using a screw RCA plug going into an unused rca terminal on the Brooklyn DAC or is it internally grounded already? 

 

Brooklyn DACs internal SMPS is already grounded, so no point (confirmed by Mytek). LPS (or floating SMPS) is probably only beneficial to ground if used to power router or network switch. JSGT is always worth trying, but will reduce SQ on the wrong spots IME.

[agladstone]

10 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Brooklyn DACs internal SMPS is already grounded, so no point (confirmed by Mytek). LPS (or floating SMPS) is probably only beneficial to ground if used to power router or network switch. JSGT is always worth trying, but will reduce SQ on the wrong spots IME.

Thanks @Cornan !! I bought all the supplies and I’m ready to start making some of these JSGT’s this afternoon! 

I plan to use on my router, my switch, and my cable modem for starters  

i was also planning on making them for the Meanwell SMPS going to my LPS-1 (which is currently powering my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0) and also for my ISO-Regen which is currently being powered by an IFI 9V iPower. 

(I plan to get a second LPS-1 for the ISO-Regen soon, but for now I’m using the IFI iPower and the ISO-Regen is then feeding my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 (which is powered by the LPS-1) and then the Micro iUSB is feeding my Brooklyn DAC. 

Do you think the JSGT will also be helpful for the ISO-Regen and the meanwell powering the LPS-1? 

I did try using a Y DC cable out of LPS-1 and split to power both the ISO-Regen and the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 , but it seemed like everything was getting too hot and I don’t think the LPS-1 has enough amps to power both at same time??

last, I was also thinking of trying JSGT on the DC in for my Cable Set top box and my Amazon TV Firebox , would that be a good idea or not?! 

Thanks !  

[agladstone]

18 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Although it uses a 3 pin mains socket, and is SMPS powered normally, doesn't necessarily mean it is grounded internally.

If using +12V from the HDPlex PSU the AC plug will not normally plugged in, so any internal grounding will be ineffective.

The +12V rail from the HDPlex is floating(IIRC) and being a linear PSU will not normally benefit from being earthed. 

You could however try what you suggested with the other end of the wire going to the metal case of the HDPlex PSU

 

P.S.

 The  12V America Mytek Brooklyn DAC Linear power supply

$393.90

AliExpress.com

Free shipping

appears to be very well made, and may further improve the performance of your DAC over the just average HDPlex PSU.

Thanks! As of now I am using an HDPlex 200w to power the Brooklyn. 

Why do you think the AliExpress LPSU looks better than the HDPlex 200W? Seems like it looks similar to me? I know I need to eventually upgrade the power supply to the Brooklyn but I was thinking the UpTone JS-2 or the Vinnie Rossi DC4EVER would be two good choices?? 

[Cornan]

27 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Thanks @Cornan !! I bought all the supplies and I’m ready to start making some of these JSGT’s this afternoon! 

I plan to use on my router, my switch, and my cable modem for starters  

i was also planning on making them for the Meanwell SMPS going to my LPS-1 (which is currently powering my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0) and also for my ISO-Regen which is currently being powered by an IFI 9V iPower. 

(I plan to get a second LPS-1 for the ISO-Regen soon, but for now I’m using the IFI iPower and the ISO-Regen is then feeding my IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 (which is powered by the LPS-1) and then the Micro iUSB is feeding my Brooklyn DAC. 

Do you think the JSGT will also be helpful for the ISO-Regen and the meanwell powering the LPS-1? 

I did try using a Y DC cable out of LPS-1 and split to power both the ISO-Regen and the IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 , but it seemed like everything was getting too hot and I don’t think the LPS-1 has enough amps to power both at same time??

last, I was also thinking of trying JSGT on the DC in for my Cable Set top box and my Amazon TV Firebox , would that be a good idea or not?! 

Thanks !  

 

You're welcome agladstone! ?

Awesome! ? JSGT is definately an improvement on routers, network switches, cable modems, cable set top boxes and Amazon TV Fireboxes with all types of PSUs. It is right up the JSGTs alley so to speak! ?

Streamers not included though, which I assume is because they are usually already dealing with the problem inside the box.

It also depends on the nature of the LPS/SMPS powering other than network devices. If the LPS/SMPS is floating I would say it is not neccessary to add JSGT. It will probably only make it worse. If the LPS/SMPS is not Floating there might be a possibility that it will improve things, but there is no guarantee (other than with network devices which gives an instant improvement with JSGT IME).

As an example I have my ISO Regen powered by a floating SMPS. Adding a JSGT on the floating SMPS reduces the SQ quite a lot. Much better without JSGT.

 

I hope that helps! ?

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, agladstone said:

I was also thinking of trying JSGT on the DC in for my Cable Set top box and my Amazon TV Firebox , would that be a good idea or not?! 

 

 Just be wary of the voltage drops when using longer power leads made using the recommended cable.

 The typical modified cables seen here do not appear to me, have sufficient copper to be used for longer runs due to the need to terminate them in a tiny DC connector plug as well.

There is more to this area than just reducing RF/EMI pickup and radiation from the cables.

See the thread DIY DC cables for further info.re these cables.

[sandyk]

Incidentally, for anyone thinking of using the Canare Star Quad  L-4E6S cable for interconnects, be aware that it's capacitance is more than  double that of a typical good quality RG59 coax interconnect.

Click on the image for a larger image.

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Incidentally, for anyone thinking of using the Canare Star Quad  L-4E6S cable for interconnects, be aware that it's capacitance is more than  double that of a typical good quality RG59 coax interconnect.

Click on the image for a larger image.

 

Well the Canare L-4E6S is a shielded mic cable. Hardly something useful as a ordinary coaxial cable. The Canare 4S6 is the one normally used for DC cables and it is not at all a good cable to use for coxial cables either (own experience). ?

However, one of Belden’s starquad cables makes a great coaxial cable according to John Swenson.

 

 

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Well the Canare L-4E6S is a shielded mic cable. Hardly something useful as a coaxial cable. The Canare 4S6 is the one normally used for DC cables and it is not at all a good cable to use for coxial cables either (own experience). ?

However, one of Belden’s starquad cables makes a great coaxial cable according to John Swenson.

 

 It is designed for low noise and microphony as a microphone cable, and should do a good job as a short Interconnect of

(1M or less) with a typical system. My preference however is still for well screened cables of a Coaxial type construction.

You can't directly translate it's performance in  your particular set up with other Preamplifier /DAC combinations.

 

The attached would be eminently suitable for making several short  DC  power leads very economically, especially if the existing XLR plugs were mated with suitable XLR sockets at the PSU end, and a decent quality DC plug fitted at the other end.

It could also be modified further if desired.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261917497557

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 It is designed for low noise and microphony as a microphone cable, and should do a good job as a short Interconnect of

(1M or less) with a typical system. My preference however is still for well screened cables of a Coaxial type construction.

You can't directly translate it's performance in  your particular set up with other Preamplifier /DAC combinations.

 

The attached would be eminently suitable for making several short  DC  power leads very economically, especially if the existing XLR plugs were mated with suitable XLR sockets at the PSU end, and a decent quality DC plug fitted at the other end.

It could also be modified further if desired.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261917497557

 

So far I have’nt heard a better DC cable than the Ghent Canare 4S6 with JSSG in my system. I prefer not to attach the shield on DC cables.

I do agree that a well made coaxial cable is a very good IC. One of the manufactorers that got the coaxial cables just right is QED. Just looking at their top range gives you a good idea how a truly great coaxial cable should look like IMHO.

 

[sandyk]

16 minutes ago, Cornan said:

So far I have’nt heard a better DC cable than the Ghent Canare 4S6 with JSSG in my system. I prefer not to attach the shield on DC cables.

 

The results will of necessity , depend on the length of the cable and how much current the device to be powered draws on peaks. Some devices such as  Xtal Oscillators in DACs and converters will perform at their best when there are absolutely minimal voltage drops in the DC cable supplying them. I keep my DC interconnects as short as possible for this reason.

[sandyk]

21 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

So far I have’nt heard a better DC cable than the Ghent Canare 4S6 with JSSG in my system. I prefer not to attach the shield on DC cables.

I do agree that a well made coaxial cable is a very good IC. One of the manufactorers that got the coaxial cables just right is QED. Just looking at their top range gives you a good idea how a truly great coaxial cable should look like IMHO.

 

 

What you have shown in the construction photo is not a normal Coaxial type cable.

Do you have a link to it's specifications ?

[Cornan]

5 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

The results will of necessity , depend on the length of the cable and how much current the device to be powered draws on peaks. Some devices such as  Xtal Oscillators in DACs and converters will perform at their best when there are absolutely minimal voltage drops in the DC cable supplying them. I keep my DC interconnects as short as possible for this reason.

 

All my DC cables are <50cm. Nontheless JSSG makes a difference, even if ut is a starquad. BTW when I cut my coaxial SPDIF cable to fit my BluWave board I noticed a big difference in SQ between 15cm and 2cm even on coaxial digital cable. Most of my USB cables, ethernet cables, DC cables and AC main cables are between 2-50cm. Lenght matters!

[Cornan]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

What you have shown in the construction photo is not a normal Coaxial type cable.

Do you have a link to it's specifications ?

 

Just how I think a good coaxial cable should look like! ? QED have a lot of info & measurments of their cables if you are interested.

 

http://www.qed.co.uk/audio_interconnects/xlr/reference_audio_40.html

 

http://ecom.armourhome.co.uk/files/qed/brochures/qed_brochure.pdf

[sandyk]

26 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Lenght matters!

 Sure does !

 As you have found it is best to keep the DC  cable lengths as short as possible, and indeed, I have found that the best USB lead is NO USB lead, just a modified USB-A to USB-B adaptor with both +5V and shield not extended through.(if possible)

However, with Coax SPDIF it is not so clear cut, with very good technical reasons why a typical Coax SPDIF cable is around 1.5M in length.

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Sure does !

 As you have found it is best to keep the DC  cable lengths as short as possible, and indeed, I have found that the best USB lead is NO USB lead, just a modified USB-A to USB-B adaptor with both +5V and shield not extended through.(if possible)

However, with Coax SPDIF it is not so clear cut, with very good technical reasons why a typical Coax SPDIF cable is around 1.5M in length.

 

I was surpriced too that my coaxial SPDIF made such a difference! Now I am even starting to wonder about XLRs! ?

I can recommend that you try to make a starquad USB cable with dual JSSG. My 50cm version is my best USB cable up to date. Better sounding than USPCB in my setup!

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I can recommend that you try to make a starquad USB cable with dual JSSG. My 50cm version is my best USB cable up to date. Better sounding than USPCB in my setup!

 

 With my JLH PSU add-ons I am more concerned about minimising resistance and voltage drop under high current peaks.

Even the resistance of the plug and socket combinations used can make quite a difference in that area.

I use a DMM to check this, even measuring the voltage drops across series relay contacts and their leads , and paralleling them if I feel it is worthwhile. However, I am using the JLHs in this case to power Optical devices and SSDs which can have brief high current demands.

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Just how I think a good coaxial cable should look like! ? QED have a lot of info & measurments of their cables if you are interested.

 

http://www.qed.co.uk/audio_interconnects/xlr/reference_audio_40.html

 

http://ecom.armourhome.co.uk/files/qed/brochures/qed_brochure.pdf

 

The specs seem fairly close to that of a typical coaxial cable. Is the shield connected to either of the 2 signal wires, or is it left unterminated ?

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

The specs seem fairly close to that of a typical coaxial cable. Is the shield connected to either of the 2 signal wires, or is it left unterminated ?

 

The shield is connected to negative and the two (different gauge) center core wires are connected to positive, just like a usual type of coaxial cable (with one center core). The secret is also the RCA plugs with minimum contact surface for negative and hollow center pin for the positive. All together contribute to its low parallel capacitanse and loop resistance.

[sandyk]

16 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

The shield is connected to negative and the two (different gauge) center core wires are connected to positive, just like a usual type of coaxial cable (with one center core). The secret is also the RCA plugs with minimum contact surface for negative and hollow center pin for the positive. All together contribute to its low parallel capacitanse and loop resistance.

 

I have an uneasy feeling that the pulse diagrams shown may be for signals well outside the normal audio pass band, perhaps with 24/192 as well.

 Perhaps some qualified member may care to comment ? 

[Cornan]

30 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I have an uneasy feeling that the pulse diagrams shown may be for signals well outside the normal audio pass band, perhaps with 24/192 as well.

 Perhaps some qualified member may care to comment ? 

 

I can just tell you that QED makes the best coaxial cable and that I have tried myself, which includes Audioquest, Transparent, Van Den Hul, Chord and various DIY. I like the fact that QED takes listening impressions and user reports into considerations in their cable designs. It would be interesting to compare it to John Swensons starquad RCA cable design though.

[agladstone]

On 12/29/2017 at 3:38 PM, Cornan said:

 

You're welcome agladstone! ?

Awesome! ? JSGT is definately an improvement on routers, network switches, cable modems, cable set top boxes and Amazon TV Fireboxes with all types of PSUs. It is right up the JSGTs alley so to speak! ?

Streamers not included though, which I assume is because they are usually already dealing with the problem inside the box.

It also depends on the nature of the LPS/SMPS powering other than network devices. If the LPS/SMPS is floating I would say it is not neccessary to add JSGT. It will probably only make it worse. If the LPS/SMPS is not Floating there might be a possibility that it will improve things, but there is no guarantee (other than with network devices which gives an instant improvement with JSGT IME).

As an example I have my ISO Regen powered by a floating SMPS. Adding a JSGT on the floating SMPS reduces the SQ quite a lot. Much better without JSGT.

 

I hope that helps! ?

 

So far I’ve made the JSGT for my Router and my Netgear GS105 switch (the switch has router in on 1 and on 5 going out to my Aurender N100). 

I need to get a larger power strip to fit more plugs and then I will also do JSGT for my Cable Modem, Cable TV set top box, and my Amazon Fire TV. 

Im still not sure if people recommended also doing JSGT for the DC in to the LPS-1 power supply? (I have the LPS-1 being powered by 12V out of HDPlex 100W at the moment). 

After I added the JSGT to the Netgear Switch and my Netgear Router, I played Tidal MQA streams and also a bunch of DSD and FLAC files stored locally in my Aurender, and I think this is the best my system has ever sounded!! 

I cant wait to add JSGT to the rest of my SMPS powered equipment! 

FYI, for my Negear GS105 switch I made the JSGT using a 12V IFI iPower and I just cut the molded DC plug off and used a screw terminal

with JSGT Ground wire and negative from IFI iPower into negative and positive into positive in the screw terminal DC plug. 

A few pics of my hack work included   

[Cornan]

47 minutes ago, agladstone said:

So far I’ve made the JSGT for my Router and my Netgear GS105 switch (the switch has router in on 1 and on 5 going out to my Aurender N100). 

I need to get a larger power strip to fit more plugs and then I will also do JSGT for my Cable Modem, Cable TV set top box, and my Amazon Fire TV. 

Im still not sure if people recommended also doing JSGT for the DC in to the LPS-1 power supply? (I have the LPS-1 being powered by 12V out of HDPlex 100W at the moment). 

After I added the JSGT to the Netgear Switch and my Netgear Router, I played Tidal MQA streams and also a bunch of DSD and FLAC files stored locally in my Aurender, and I think this is the best my system has ever sounded!! 

I cant wait to add JSGT to the rest of my SMPS powered equipment! 

FYI, for my Negear GS105 switch I made the JSGT using a 12V IFI iPower and I just cut the molded DC plug off and used a screw terminal

with JSGT Ground wire and negative from IFI iPower into negative and positive into positive in the screw terminal DC plug. 

A few pics of my hack work included   

 

Looking great agladstone! Good work and I am happy you got a nice SQ jump as well! ?

JSGT with LPS-1 is a bit of a gamble. Some people have reported improvement and some have not. I think it all comes down to which device the LPS-1 is powering. I would say it is surely worth it if it is used to power network devices. Otherwise probably an equal chance to make it worse since the feeder supply is a linear power supply.

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Looking great agladstone! Good work and I am happy you got a nice SQ jump as well! ?

JSGT with LPS-1 is a bit of a gamble. Some people have reported improvement and some have not. I think it all comes down to which device the LPS-1 is powering. I would say it is surely worth it if it is used to power network devices. Otherwise probably an equal chance to make it worse since the feeder supply is a linear power supply.

I think I will take your advice and only use the JSGT on all of my network devices and also on cable set top box and Amazon TV Box. 

[lvc10000]

I might have missed the answer to this basic question but, if we have our AV equipment on their dedicated power line and if we set all the existing SMPS of the system onto the same extension cord on a separate house power line - as recommended if I got it right, in my case  an LPS-1, Netgear GS105 ordered, Router & cable box, do we have to make 4 different/separate SMPS grounding plugs or can we for example group two together at the phase plug side as they will ultimately be plugged into the same extension cord?

[Cornan]

55 minutes ago, lvc10000 said:

I might have missed the answer to this basic question but, if we have our AV equipment on their dedicated power line and if we set all the existing SMPS of the system onto the same extension cord on a separate house power line - as recommended if I got it right, in my case  an LPS-1, Netgear GS105 ordered, Router & cable box, do we have to make 4 different/separate SMPS grounding plugs or can we for example group two together at the phase plug side as they will ultimately be plugged into the same extension cord?

 

If you have one SMPS feeding a LPS-1 powering 4 network devices simultaniously (as I understand it) you should add a JSGT on the SMPS output pre LPS-1 and possibly get a nice jump in SQ. The AC mains plug of the JSGT must be connected to the same powerstrip/extension cord as the SMPS.

If I got that wrong and you are talking about 4 SMPS you can use a single AC main plug with four 24awg wires to the LPS-1, router, cable box and network switch.