SMPS and grounding

[sandyk]

23 minutes ago, ecwl said:

 

@sandyk I think you're right in saying that I didn't capture exactly what my dealer did. I think my dealer did something like what Superdad described above to check various devices. But we technically never checked the Oppo BDP-103. I just read somewhere that the ground pin is not connected for the Oppo BDP-103

 

ecwl

My Au. Oppo BDP-103 is fitted with a 3 pin mains plug.

The Earth pin from this plug IS connected to it's metal case, as well as to the 0 volts/earth sides of it's RCA sockets.

 ( I just checked it.)

 

Alex

[beerandmusic]

wow 29 pages....

if i am not a DIY kinda guy, is there one relatively inexpensive ps i can buy to power all necessary devices which would resolve any/all of the issues discussed in this thread?

 

(nativ vita enet->usb endpoint, teac nt503, mcintosh amp)

 

[Superdad]

Just now, beerandmusic said:

wow 29 pages....

if i am not a DIY kinda guy, is there one relatively inexpensive ps i can buy to power all necessary devices which would resolve any/all of the issues discussed in this thread?

 

Well what would you like to power?  And what connections--of Ethernet, computer, switches, DAC, etc.--are part of the system?

[beerandmusic]

8 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well what would you like to power?  And what connections--of Ethernet, computer, switches, DAC, etc.--are part of the system?

 

I don't know what i need to power besides the default ps i have for my devices.

 

Someone just forward me link to this thread and said it was a great tip for greatly improved performance.  I have looked briefly at the thread and it appears the dac is most sensative to leakage current?

 

Currently i am using a pc to teac nt503, but i have a nativ vita on the way.

I don't think the teac nt503 will be my final dac, so hoping something universal that would be good for any future dac?  (contempating many dacs holo dsd only dac being released next year and nt505 sound interesting)...whatever i go with it will be DSD.

 

Maybe a DIY device will be enough and can be made relatively cheaply, but if sq can be greatly improved, i wouldn't mind spending up to $1k, IF it has enough juice and can power all necessary devices that may improve SQ.

 

I really don't know what my end game will be....hoping a network player (streamer/dac with good external ps, femto clocks, dual es9038) is in the works by someone that checks all my boxes.

[MikeyFresh]

38 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I don't know what i need to power besides the default ps i have for my devices.

 

Someone just forward me link to this thread and said it was a great tip for greatly improved performance.  I have looked briefly at the thread and it appears the dac is most sensative to leakage current?

 

Currently i am using a pc to teac nt503, but i have a nativ vita on the way.

I don't think the teac nt503 will be my final dac, so hoping something universal that would be good for any future dac?  (contempating many dacs holo dsd only dac being released next year and nt505 sound interesting)...whatever i go with it will be DSD.

 

Maybe a DIY device will be enough and can be made relatively cheaply, but if sq can be greatly improved, i wouldn't mind spending up to $1k, IF it has enough juice and can power all necessary devices that may improve SQ.

 

I really don't know what my end game will be....hoping a network player (streamer/dac with good external ps, femto clocks, dual es9038) is in the works by someone that checks all my boxes.

 

Based on the above, you don't at all seem to be in the right thread, despite someone having suggested it to you.

 

Please read the thread title, it is fairly specific, then read more than just a few posts to get a better understanding of what is being discussed.

 

Because no one including you can predict the future as far as your "end game" is considered, that is irrelevant to the here and now stuff you already have. But if any of the gear you currently use is powered by a SMPS, then perhaps this thread can be of assistance to you.

[beerandmusic]

14 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

Based on the above, you don't at all seem to be in the right thread, despite someone having suggested it to you.

 

Please read the thread title, it is fairly specific, then read more than just a few posts to get a better understanding of what is being discussed.

 

Because no one including you can predict the future as far as your "end game" is considered, that is irrelevant to the here and now stuff you already have. But if any of the gear you currently use is powered by a SMPS, then perhaps this thread can be of assistance to you.

I am relatively certain all my current gear use smps? (stated default ps, and guessing the nativ vita would be the most effected).

The Nativ Vita Network Music Player comes with a power supply that delivers 12V with 3A max (2A nominal).

 

[MikeyFresh]

39 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I am relatively certain all my current gear use smps? (stated default ps, and guessing the nativ vita would be the most effected).

The Nativ Vita Network Music Player comes with a power supply that delivers 12V with 3A max (2A nominal).

 

 

Ok, but I am relatively certain the Teac NT-503 is not equipped with a SMPS. I don't own one and can't confirm that for you.

 

The Nativ network player unit that you don't have yet very likely does employ a SMPS, but because you don't yet have it, I can't see why you would make a JSGT shunt for it at this time.

 

48 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

i wouldn't mind spending up to $1k, IF it has enough juice and can power all necessary devices that may improve SQ.

 

This is where you have me confused as to the thread topic, you seem to be thinking this is a place to discuss a DIY power supply for up to $1k that can power multiple different devices? That isn't the thread topic at all.

 

Sorry in advance if I've misunderstood, but based on the above, it does appear you are in the wrong thread. This one is about shunting AC leakage current to ground on components using a SMPS.

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

 

 

Sorry... duplicate but can't seem to fully delete the above.

[beerandmusic]

8 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

 

Ok, but I am relatively certain the Teac NT-503 is not equipped with a SMPS. I don't own one and can't confirm that for you.

 

The Nativ network player unit that you don't have yet very likely does employ a SMPS, but because you don't yet have it, I can't see why you would make a JSGT shunt for it at this time.

 

 

This is where you have me confused as to the thread topic, you seem to be thinking this is a place to discuss a DIY power supply for up to $1k that can power multiple different devices? That isn't the thread topic at all.

 

Sorry in advance if I've misunderstood, but based on the above, it does appear you are in the wrong thread. This one is about shunting AC leakage current to ground on components using a SMPS.

 

Perhaps i wasn't clear....If the DIY shunt will suffice, and is really really easy, i may go that route.  I did read in the thread that this shunt is not needed if you get the LPS-1, hence why i said I may go the route of an "off the shelf solution" vs a diy, but i would prefer if there was some single ps that could be used for all my devices...but this is where my inexperience is...maybe they don't make such a PS that could be used as both an isolation ps, power conditioner, and LPS outputs for devices that could use one (grin).  For the short term, a DIY shunt for the nativ vita may make sense in regards to this thread.

[Superdad]

29 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Perhaps i wasn't clear....If the DIY shunt will suffice, and is really really easy, i may go that route.  I did read in the thread that this shunt is not needed if you get the LPS-1, hence why i said I may go the route of an "off the shelf solution" vs a diy, but i would prefer if there was some single ps that could be used for all my devices...but this is where my inexperience is...maybe they don't make such a PS that could be used as both an isolation ps, power conditioner, and LPS outputs for devices that could use one (grin).  For the short term, a DIY shunt for the nativ vita may make sense in regards to this thread.

 

Most of the components you listed have their own INTERNAL AC>DC power supplies--be they linear, switch-mode, or hybrid.  Such products lend themselves to neither the use of an external DC power supply nor the use (or possibly the need of) for shunting of AC mains ground to DC zero-volt output ("ground") to eliminate high-impedance AC mains leakage as discussed in this thread.

[mikicasellas]

12 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I don't know what i need to power besides the default ps i have for my devices.

 

Someone just forward me link to this thread and said it was a great tip for greatly improved performance.  I have looked briefly at the thread and it appears the dac is most sensative to leakage current?

 

Currently i am using a pc to teac nt503, but i have a nativ vita on the way.

I don't think the teac nt503 will be my final dac, so hoping something universal that would be good for any future dac?  (contempating many dacs holo dsd only dac being released next year and nt505 sound interesting)...whatever i go with it will be DSD.

 

Maybe a DIY device will be enough and can be made relatively cheaply, but if sq can be greatly improved, i wouldn't mind spending up to $1k, IF it has enough juice and can power all necessary devices that may improve SQ.

 

I really don't know what my end game will be....hoping a network player (streamer/dac with good external ps, femto clocks, dual es9038) is in the works by someone that checks all my boxes.

 

I am not a DIY either, but the "gift" of John Swenson to us is very simple, i followed the simple steps and my electrician help me did it, it cost me nothing really, i did it for my switch and LPS-1/ISO REGEN and the difference in SQ at least in my system is like i put some new device, that large it is, sound is a lot cleaner, bolder, it is a fantastic mod...

 

I believe it made the ISO REGEN show its full potential, and it is quite BIG!!

 

Regards!!

[mikicasellas]

12 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I don't know what i need to power besides the default ps i have for my devices.

 

Someone just forward me link to this thread and said it was a great tip for greatly improved performance.  I have looked briefly at the thread and it appears the dac is most sensative to leakage current?

 

Currently i am using a pc to teac nt503, but i have a nativ vita on the way.

I don't think the teac nt503 will be my final dac, so hoping something universal that would be good for any future dac?  (contempating many dacs holo dsd only dac being released next year and nt505 sound interesting)...whatever i go with it will be DSD.

 

Maybe a DIY device will be enough and can be made relatively cheaply, but if sq can be greatly improved, i wouldn't mind spending up to $1k, IF it has enough juice and can power all necessary devices that may improve SQ.

 

I really don't know what my end game will be....hoping a network player (streamer/dac with good external ps, femto clocks, dual es9038) is in the works by someone that checks all my boxes.

Oh and i did not have to go 29 pages i juts went onto specific JS mod for this:

Look:

 

 

 

[Ralf11]

beer - look at your gear and see which ones have wall warts - list the ones that do for help

 

 

[beerandmusic]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

beer - look at your gear and see which ones have wall warts - list the ones that do for help

Only the nativ vita, but I have not received it yet....

 

actually i don't even know if it is a wall wart or one of the brick type ps as i haven't recieved it yet...but i know it is external...i don't know if this picture helps...the power connector is the far right connector.  seems to have many pins, so maybe it is already grounded?

 

[Cornan]

4 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Only the nativ vita, but I have not received it yet....

 

There is only one way to find out if the JSGT works with it or not. I can just tell you that JSGT was not beneficial on my floating SMPS powering my Auralic Aries Mini, but it made a big impact on the floating PSUs powering my Aqvox switch and main router. JSGT give you high five on the right spots but can give you a face slap on the wrong spot. ?

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

There is only one way to find out if the JSGT works with it or not. I can just tell you that JSGT was not beneficial on my floating SMPS powering my Auralic Aries Mini, but it made a big impact on the floating PSUs powering my Aqvox switch and main router. JSGT give you high five on the right spots but can give you a face slap on the wrong spot. ?

i just edited above reply to add:

actually i don't even know if it is a wall wart or one of the brick type ps as i haven't recieved it yet...but i know it is external...i don't know if this picture helps...the power connector is the far right connector.  seems to have many pins, so maybe it is already grounded?

 

I was going to do ethernet with the vita, but since it also supports ssd, i will probably not even bother with enet, so i won't need to shunt the enet switch.

[Cornan]

9 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

i just edited above reply to add:

actually i don't even know if it is a wall wart or one of the brick type ps as i haven't recieved it yet...but i know it is external...i don't know if this picture helps...the power connector is the far right connector.  seems to have many pins, so maybe it is already grounded?

 

I was going to do ethernet with the vita, but since it supports ssd, i will probably not even bother with enet.

 

Nice network music player BTW. Me like! ? Looking at the website the Nativ Vita seems to use a LPS (Nativ Pulse) https://www.nativsound.com/en/faq and you are not going to use Ethernet, so probably no need to bother with JSGT.

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

Nice network music player BTW. Me like! ? Looking at the website the Native Vita seems to use a LPS (Native Pulse) https://www.nativsound.com/en/faq, so probably no need to bother with JSGT.

i am pretty sure the nativ pulse is an optional item, not included, but i will check.

[Superdad]

21 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

i am pretty sure the nativ pulse is an optional item, not included, but i will check.

 

Yes, it is $999 additional.  Standard supply that comes with the Nativ Vita is small SMPS brick--with their own USB-C-looking plug on the DC cable.

 

We are now way off topic! 

[beerandmusic]

50 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

USB-C-looking plug

??

what does that mean?  So the shunt won't help with this device?

Probably couldn't find a (male-female) to connect to even if it didnt have a ground (grin)

 

[wakka992]

Hi guys, a bit off topic here, but bear with me:

my last desktop DAC was grounded as it had the classic 3 prong power cord, but since my new Hugo 2 SMPS is a 2 prong one, does the battery powered Hugo 2 (and reflectively any battery powered devices) need to be grounded? 

If yes, what should I ground, the Hugo' power supply with JohnSwenson method or the input connection (or both)?

 

Before answering bear in mind that I use USB input on my Hugo 2, but after the PC I have an Intona Galvanic Isolator, and between the Intona and the Hugo 2 I have an iFi iDefender, a little gadget that effectively "break" the ground connection and inject new power from a secondary LPS.

So my chain is as follow:
PC -> Intona -> iDefender (powered by 5V LPS) --> Hugo 2 USB input

 

thanks for your input 

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, wakka992 said:

Hi guys, a bit off topic here, but bear with me:

my last desktop DAC was grounded as it had the classic 3 prong power cord, but since my new Hugo 2 SMPS is a 2 prong one, does the battery powered Hugo 2 (and reflectively any battery powered devices) need to be grounded? 

If yes, what should I ground, the Hugo' power supply with JohnSwenson method or the input connection (or both)?

 

Before answering bear in mind that I use USB input on my Hugo 2, but after the PC I have an Intona Galvanic Isolator, and between the Intona and the Hugo 2 I have an iFi iDefender, a little gadget that effectively "break" the ground connection and inject new power from a secondary LPS.

So my chain is as follow:
PC -> Intona -> iDefender (powered by 5V LPS) --> Hugo 2 USB input

 

thanks for your input 

 

As long as  the charger is not connected to Hugo 2 at all time (ie. not connected while listening to music) you´re safe against high impedance noises. It is possible to ground the coaxial inputs/outputs without damaging anything. It is quite easy to try and see if it improves SQ or not. My guess is not, but I have been wrong before!  

With that said I have externally grounded a KingRex uPower battery supply with great results a couple of years ago. I grounded the USB output to a Entreq Minimus grouning box. The SQ did jump a bit. Difficult to say that this was due to high impedance noise or another reason though?

[wakka992]

45 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

As long as  the charger is not connected to Hugo 2 at all time (ie. not connected while listening to music) you´re safe against high impedance noises. It is possible to ground the coaxial inputs/outputs without damaging anything. It is quite easy to try and see if it improves SQ or not. My guess is not, but I have been wrong before!  

With that said I have externally grounded a KingRex uPower battery supply with great results a couple of years ago. I grounded the USB output to a Entreq Minimus grouning box. The SQ did jump a bit. Difficult to say that this was due to high impedance noise or another reason though?

 

Thanks for your reply Conrad,

unfortunately my Hugo 2 is always in charge as I use it in desktop mode.

When you say "It is possible to ground the coaxial inputs/outputs without damaging anything" do you mean that I can ground the coax while in use or that is easy to ground an unused coax?

Since I use also coax that would be a problem...

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, wakka992 said:

 

Thanks for your reply Conrad,

unfortunately my Hugo 2 is always in charge as I use it in desktop mode.

When you say "It is possible to ground the coaxial inputs/outputs without damaging anything" do you mean that I can ground the coax while in use or that is easy to ground an unused coax?

Since I use also coax that would be a problem...

 

You're welcome wakka992! ?

You can use any unused input/output using a screw terminal RCA plug like this one while in use.

 

 

RCA ground is usually connected to the common ground, so it could work well to shunt high impedance noise. If you have a spare TRS(S) it will work as well...and I have seen screw terminal TRS around.

 

If you want to use the USB micro power inlet it is also possible ofcourse, but require to find the right plugs for the job. I know there is DC2.1/5.5mm screw terminal plugs and DC2.1/5.5mm to USB micro adapters around that could work.

[agladstone]

Will this SMPS grounding have any benefit to grounding the DC input (cable) from a linear power supply (HDPlex) going into a Mytek Brooklyn DAC? 

Mom assuming since it’s being fed by a LPSU and not a SMPS the answer is no? 

Would there be any benefit in using a screw RCA plug going into an unused rca terminal on the Brooklyn DAC or is it internally grounded already?