USB audio cracked... finally!

[Ralf11]

can anyone cite to the studies showing that  blind testing creates stressors which make critical listening difficult ??

[rickca]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I prefer to title a thread with "listening Impressions Only" or something of that sort. 

Well, if it's as simple as that and people respect it that will be amazing.  I really hope this works.

[lmitche]

1 minute ago, Ralf11 said:

can anyone cite to the studies showing that  blind testing creates stressors which make critical listening difficult ??

Why don't you research this yourself and let us know what you learn.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, rickca said:

Well, if it's as simple as that and people respect it that will be amazing.  I really hope this works.

It will make moderation very simple and there should be no questions if a post is removed.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

can anyone cite to the studies showing that  blind testing creates stressors which make critical listening difficult ??

Perhaps a topic for its own thread.

[barrows]

19 minutes ago, rickca said:

Like a nothingburger? 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/you-can-get-a-nothingburger-at-mcdonalds-but-it-takes-some-work-2017-08-23

While that is true, a jitter free signal entering the DAC (chip I think you mean) does not guarantee "perfect" analog sound at the output.  There are many ways that noise from the digital input side of a DAC (component) can couple with the analog signal, and cause audible distortions.

Many of the efforts of good high end manufacturers are focused on reducing noise on the input side, and on reducing radiated RF (internally) which can cause analog distortions.  Are these often low level effects, yes of course, that is exactly what high end sound is about.

Additionally, there is little guarantee that there will be a low (it will never be jitter free, no such thing) level jitter signal at the DAC, and that these same noise sources can and will effect masterclock performance.

Optimizing a DAC for all these problems is not easy.  We must remember that a DAC is a mixed signal system, Digital and Analog, and clock signals themselves are analog signals.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, CuteStudio said:

At the end of a day one jitter free digital signal entering the DAC is the same (i.e. Exactly The Same) as another: logically and scientifically there can be no other alternative.

 

This is only correct from a digital data perspective. You have to remember that we are using an analog medium to transmit digital signals. The USB PHY of the sender and receiver can be affected by power and ground issues that do not alter the actual data. I buy that the electrical characteristics of a cable can affect the sender and receiver USB PHY. I also agree that the DAC's USB PHY can put out electrical signals that could affect downstream processing and alter the sound coming out of the DAC. What I doubt is that any single cable configuration would affect all USB PHYs in the same positive way. That's hooey!

[manisandher]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I prefer to title a thread with "listening Impressions Only" or something of that sort. 

 

In the OP I mentioned:

 

On 7/14/2017 at 0:38 PM, manisandher said:

If you believe that there is no more issue using USB for audio than using it for a mouse, then simply move along to another thread that interests you. No need to waste your time posting here.

 

I still believe that this is all that is required.

 

Mani.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Agreed Mani.

 

Others should feel free to Report Posts that don't meet the "requirements."

[Ralf11]

8 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Why don't you research this yourself and let us know what you learn.

 

I often do research, but rarely do it for the lazy

 

You also seem confused about the fact that the affirmative has the burden of proof

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

 

I often do research, but rarely do it for the lazy

Are you calling yourself lazy?

[Ralf11]

don't be silly

[Johnseye]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm all for free speech, and (civil) debate. But repetitive debate (even if civil) is also toxic.

 

I know many other CA'ers who are actually thinking of quitting CA entirely due to this. I'm not there yet, but find this all very depressing.

 

 

 

It's the OP's thread, and he can close it if he wishes.

 

Quitting reading or contributing to a forum is a bit drastic, emotional and really unnecessary.  If someone doesn't like a topic then they don't have to read or participate in it.  Simple as that.  Personally I find a lot of valuable information in this forum I can't find anywhere else.  I don't listen to headphones only so that forum has its limitations, I don't find myself in the pure scientific camp where all other opinions are ridiculed so that forum has its limitations, etc, etc. I've found that free and open discussion where the only line is when others are intentionally offended is a very viable policy.  Moderation can have no end and is counter productive, but personal attacks are unwarranted in conversations as well as life in general.  Some people have thicker skin than others, but we can all walk away from a conversation in the ether.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

don't be silly

You asked for research and someone asked you to do it yourself. You said you don't do it for the lazy. Thus my comment. 

[Bystander]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Only @PeterSt can offer the best answer to why the cable sounds the way it does.

 

And he doesn't appear to know, if I understand him correctly:

 

19 hours ago, PeterSt said:

...

the digitus flavor is removed (not as an explicit process because I wouldn't know how to do that).

...

back to the beginning of the Lush story "I don't know what I have done *now*, but ... ". 

...

[Ralf11]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You asked for research and someone asked you to do it yourself. You said you don't do it for the lazy. Thus my comment. 

 

I asked if a claim made by one person was supported by any research.  Then a 3rd party jumped in with a stupid comment.  Then you posted - please review the thread.

 

Your comment flips the burden of proof requirement in our civilization on its head.  Think about what that would mean for medical devices or drugs.  Yes, I AM aware that this field will not kill anyone - just defraud them

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

If someone doesn't like a topic then they don't have to read or participate in it.

I agree.  It's just that the 'you are delusional' posts have become so pervasive that no thread is immune.

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

I asked if a claim made by one person was supported by any research.  Then a 3rd party jumped in with a stupid comment.  Then you posted - please review the thread.

 

Your comment flips the burden of proof requirement in our civilization on its head.  Think about what that would mean for medical devices or drugs.  Yes, I AM aware that this field will not kill anyone - just defraud them

 

Wow. We aren't in a court of law or doing medical trials. 

 

You wanted research. Doesn't matter what someone claimed. Then you called people lazy who wouldn't either do the research or find the research you want. 

 

Come on. It really seems like you are taking yourself and this hobby way more serious than it needs to be taken. 

[manisandher]

4 minutes ago, rickca said:

I agree.  It's just that the 'you are delusional' posts have become so pervasive that no thread is immune.

 

In which case, you come back with evidence...

 

Lush listening impressions (many different users, with many different DACs):

• “First seconds already ... WoW!”
• “WOW indeed...”
• “I am using Lush now for 1 day. Very first impression, I am missing something. But within some tracks I started to appreciate the sound. Really smooth and warmer but with same details AND better bass again.”
• “Perhaps it is because I am still in the honeymoon period (my The Lush arrived this morning) but this cable is "the business".  Harmonics anyone?  The albums that I have listened to so far have been very enjoyable. Yes the sound is more lush, or perhaps even warmer, than the Clarixia.  It kind of reminds me of why people choose triodes and 4 or 5 way acoustic systems...that depth of presentation with a harmonic richness to soothe the soul.”
• "Lush has arrived here and all I have to say is: WOW !!!! It is like all digital "stuff" has been removed from my system and replaced with analogue.”
• "... The Lush is probably the best money I've ever spent in audio.”
• “The Lush gives my system a 'natural' and 'analogue' sound. Instruments and voices are both full-bodied and crystal clear at the same time. The whole sound resonates beautifully, with a natural decay.”
• “I then changed to the Lush cable(not really burned in yet) and I must say that this is the one. It just gives you the analogue feel together with details. The violins are silky and yet you can still hear them conveying to you the feelings. No excessive full bodied sound. And listen to the gentle decay of the sound at decrescendos and sound slowly dying away. The microdynamics are all there and most important with feeling. And when the solo piano comes in the percussive notes is both authoritative and musical. Very difficult to achieve. And the musical sound and transparency and details are always there and never gives you fatigue. I must say that this is definitely my preferred sound.”
• "The Lush now is more of a night-and-day sort of thing to me. It is really stunning how transformative this cable is to my whole system. Music sounds like real now, something I was looking for a very long time when tuning around my DIY power supplies and all that stuff. Now I'm so much closer to the sound I'm dreaming of..."
• "Conclusion - the Lush just sounds nicer. Hard to express, but I think Mani said more musical and that's as good a phrase as I can muster. More twang in the strings. More air in the vocals. Slightly less digital." 
• "I have to say it's a keeper.  I want to call it the "classical cable" and while it adds value to all musical genres, I have truly enjoyed listening to classical music for the first time in a long while with this cable. The level of harmonic detail, timber and emotion it delivers is better then anything I have ever heard. Peter is right, it's not an a/b thing, its best experienced by listening to an entire album."
• "What is really remarkable about the sound of the Lush is that it is both smoother sounding and, at the same time, everything, instruments and voices, are more solid sounding. Everything has more "presence", thus everything sounds more natural... Incredible achievement."

Subjective for sure, but evidence nevertheless.

 

Mani.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, manisandher said:

 

In which case, you come back with evidence...

 

Lush listening impressions (many different users, with many different DACs):

• “First seconds already ... WoW!”
• “WOW indeed...”
• “I am using Lush now for 1 day. Very first impression, I am missing something. But within some tracks I started to appreciate the sound. Really smooth and warmer but with same details AND better bass again.”
• “Perhaps it is because I am still in the honeymoon period (my The Lush arrived this morning) but this cable is "the business".  Harmonics anyone?  The albums that I have listened to so far have been very enjoyable. Yes the sound is more lush, or perhaps even warmer, than the Clarixia.  It kind of reminds me of why people choose triodes and 4 or 5 way acoustic systems...that depth of presentation with a harmonic richness to soothe the soul.”
• "Lush has arrived here and all I have to say is: WOW !!!! It is like all digital "stuff" has been removed from my system and replaced with analogue.”
• "... The Lush is probably the best money I've ever spent in audio.”
• “The Lush gives my system a 'natural' and 'analogue' sound. Instruments and voices are both full-bodied and crystal clear at the same time. The whole sound resonates beautifully, with a natural decay.”
• “I then changed to the Lush cable(not really burned in yet) and I must say that this is the one. It just gives you the analogue feel together with details. The violins are silky and yet you can still hear them conveying to you the feelings. No excessive full bodied sound. And listen to the gentle decay of the sound at decrescendos and sound slowly dying away. The microdynamics are all there and most important with feeling. And when the solo piano comes in the percussive notes is both authoritative and musical. Very difficult to achieve. And the musical sound and transparency and details are always there and never gives you fatigue. I must say that this is definitely my preferred sound.”
• "The Lush now is more of a night-and-day sort of thing to me. It is really stunning how transformative this cable is to my whole system. Music sounds like real now, something I was looking for a very long time when tuning around my DIY power supplies and all that stuff. Now I'm so much closer to the sound I'm dreaming of..."
• "Conclusion - the Lush just sounds nicer. Hard to express, but I think Mani said more musical and that's as good a phrase as I can muster. More twang in the strings. More air in the vocals. Slightly less digital." 
• "I have to say it's a keeper.  I want to call it the "classical cable" and while it adds value to all musical genres, I have truly enjoyed listening to classical music for the first time in a long while with this cable. The level of harmonic detail, timber and emotion it delivers is better then anything I have ever heard. Peter is right, it's not an a/b thing, its best experienced by listening to an entire album."
• "What is really remarkable about the sound of the Lush is that it is both smoother sounding and, at the same time, everything, instruments and voices, are more solid sounding. Everything has more "presence", thus everything sounds more natural... Incredible achievement."

Subjective for sure, but evidence nevertheless.

 

Mani.

 

 

It's clear people are enjoying life when using this cable. Why anyone else would care is beyond me. 

[rickca]

12 minutes ago, manisandher said:

In which case, you come back with evidence

Umm, I think you misunderstood my post.  I bought a Lush cable.

 

I was explaining why I can't just ignore all the topics that have been invaded by advocates for double blind tests.  It is these advocates who are telling us 'you are delusional'.  Clear now?

 

I don't know how you interpreted my post as an expression of skepticism about people who enjoy the Lush cable.

 

@The Computer Audiophile I didn't understand your post either as a reaction to mine.

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, rickca said:

Umm, I think you misunderstood my post.  I bought a Lush cable.

 

I was explaining why I can't just ignore all the topics that have been invaded by advocates for double blind tests.  I don't know how you interpreted my post as an expression of skepticism about people who enjoy the Lush cable.

 

@The Computer Audiophile I didn't understand your post either as a reaction to mine.

I didn't respond to your post. 

[austinpop]

21 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

It's clear people are enjoying life when using this cable. Why anyone else would care is beyond me. 

 

Exactly.

 

I do understand why people are skeptical of things like cables making a difference, along with hundreds of other things in audio. But I make a choice - I choose to engage with my music and my audio gear emotionally, and I pursue whatever gives me the greatest listening pleasure. That's what it's about for a lot of us, I'm sure. I don't need every incremental SQ gain proven to me before I can allow myself to enjoy it. Life would be really dull if I did!

 

We all have our foibles. I have a thing about little wooden blocks and cable risers. I just can't bring myself to try them or to even consider they could make an SQ difference. I admit it. I just can't get past it. Mea culpa.

 

But do I stalk threads that talk about myrtle blocks, and endlessly rail against them every time someone posts an impression? Do I demand proof, suggest expectation bias, suggest mass delusion, or demand blind, double-blind, testing? No.

 

Why? Because I have a life.

[rickca]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Because I have a life.

You are delusional. 

[Ralf11]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

 

You wanted research. Doesn't matter what someone claimed. Then you called people lazy who wouldn't either do the research or find the research you want. 

 

 

 

 

Be serious - some one makes a claim and I asked them if there was any support for it.

 

Come on.

 

And try to avoid rewriting what really happened.