Mutec REF 10 Masterclock

[Johnseye]

8 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

You make very compelling points, Julian. Thank you.

 

 Since I’m in the market, I’d like to ask a few public questions that might be to the benefit on others:

 

1. Your literature mentions the square signal and steel chassis as contributing factors to the REF10 performance. How influential are they? Crudely speaking, 5%, 10%? 
2. How many years for continuous use can one expect from the REF10? Roughly of course.
3. Is there a point in time in which a re-calibration is in order? Is that a service Mutec offers?
4. How far apart can I place the REF10 from the slave? I have 2 systems that could benefit from the REF10. One would demand a 14-meter word clock cable, though…

 

Thanks in advance!

 

All great questions I'd like to know the answers to.

[LowMidHigh]

Any good Samaritan who can measure the REF10's height, including the support feet, and length, including the connectors? Mutec's website fails to share that information.

 

Thanks...

 

 

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

Any good Samaritan who can measure the REF10's height, including the support feet, and length, including the connectors? Mutec's website fails to share that information.

 

Thanks...

 

 

 

I had to eyeball it the best I could for the front to back...

 

Height (with feet):       3.75 inches

depth - from front fascia (not counting knob) to the ends of the BNC connectors:       12.5 inches

[LowMidHigh]

Just now, austinpop said:

 

I had to eyeball it the best I could for the front to back...

 

Height (with feet):       3.75 inches

depth - from front fascia (not counting knob) to the ends of the BNC connectors:       12.5 inches

Many thanks!!

[mitch751]

4" x 13" X 8" = H x D x W

[Tand]

Hi

I jumped on the Habst CA group buy this summer and here is my short report after about 2 weeks of listening.

 

First listening:

 

2 weeks ago. Connected Habst BNC 75 ohm, 2 brand new cables in my system.. The cables were  connected to the Clock Outputs (44.1 and 48 khz) from my Vivaldi Master Clock to Vivaldi Dac. Steaming from Tidal. 

 

In the system before Habst: 2 x Canare 12G SDI-4K cable 3 feet

 

Fist impresions after about 30 min.

Clean, airy. Velvet midrange, very detailed maybe less body in midrange than before - this could be an abscence of coloration, I think. Tight, dynamic, deep bass. Detalis in the background never heard before. Image and instruments between speakers are laser stable. Very “black” background.

 

And all this with just cables from clock to dac. Very impressive. I felt this was a major upgrade allready!

 

 

After 50 hours burn in:

 

 

Now 3 Habst BNC scables in my system:

 

2 from dCS Vivaldi Clock to Vivaldi Dac 

1 from Ref10 to MC3+ USB

 

The sound is really, really good now!  Black background. Lots of details but never in a bad way, sounds very musical. The music has a rhytm and drive with deep soundstage.  It is very easy to let the music engage you in a way that never before.

 

 

 

So far:

 

The conclusion so far is that the Habst cables let the Ref10 really shine. For me it has been a big upgrade.

 

I expect the next mind blowing level will be when I change the generic clock cables for the Ref input on the Vivaldi clock and to my 2 x sCLK cards from SOtM feeding the RedNet 16 R+switch and my clocked (4 tabs) Mac mini. 

 

Exciting times ahead!

 

Tommy

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

Delighted for you that you're' so thrilled. 

Try AB/X . If you can still hear the difference then strike gold big time. James Randi offers $1 million for any audiophile who can prove expensive cables sound better. Hurry up, he's getting old...

[sam1000]

thanks Tommy. Good report. I have been on the fence since I can't audition them. Enjoy your system and the music.

[LowMidHigh]

 

I’m going to ask a wild-eyed question here: has anyone compared the MC+REF to Eitr? 

 

I’m about the pull the trigger on a REF10 and my benchmark is the Eitr, which sounds fu*&ing amazing.

I wonder how good a fight a $200 David gives to a $4,800 Goliath…

 

[mourip]

Apples to oranges...actually more like an apple to a cat ?

 

The EITR would best be directly compared to the Mutec +3 USB. Both are USB to SPDIF converters.

 

The REF10 is a master clock. It does not process a digital signal. It supplies a very accurate timing signal reference for another device like the M3USB that has an external clock input.

[LowMidHigh]

Thanks amigo...Words of wisdom; nothing but the truth.

 

But I meant the sound of the Mutec combo (REF feeding MC) vs. the sound of the Eitr.

 

 

[afrancois]

On 10/19/2018 at 8:26 AM, Tand said:

Hi

I jumped on the Habst CA group buy this summer and here is my short report after about 2 weeks of listening.

 

First listening:

 

2 weeks ago. Connected Habst BNC 75 ohm, 2 brand new cables in my system.. The cables were  connected to the Clock Outputs (44.1 and 48 khz) from my Vivaldi Master Clock to Vivaldi Dac. Steaming from Tidal. 

 

In the system before Habst: 2 x Canare 12G SDI-4K cable 3 feet

 

Fist impresions after about 30 min.

Clean, airy. Velvet midrange, very detailed maybe less body in midrange than before - this could be an abscence of coloration, I think. Tight, dynamic, deep bass. Detalis in the background never heard before. Image and instruments between speakers are laser stable. Very “black” background.

 

And all this with just cables from clock to dac. Very impressive. I felt this was a major upgrade allready!

 

 

After 50 hours burn in:

 

 

Now 3 Habst BNC scables in my system:

 

2 from dCS Vivaldi Clock to Vivaldi Dac 

1 from Ref10 to MC3+ USB

 

The sound is really, really good now!  Black background. Lots of details but never in a bad way, sounds very musical. The music has a rhytm and drive with deep soundstage.  It is very easy to let the music engage you in a way that never before.

 

 

 

So far:

 

The conclusion so far is that the Habst cables let the Ref10 really shine. For me it has been a big upgrade.

 

I expect the next mind blowing level will be when I change the generic clock cables for the Ref input on the Vivaldi clock and to my 2 x sCLK cards from SOtM feeding the RedNet 16 R+switch and my clocked (4 tabs) Mac mini. 

 

Exciting times ahead!

 

Tommy

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had the same feeling of loss of weight in the midrange after I had upgraded my BNC cables. Base was even more refined than before, however.

[sam1000]

4 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

Thanks amigo...Words of wisdom; nothing but the truth.

 

But I meant the sound of the Mutec combo (REF feeding MC) vs. the sound of the Eitr.

 

 

Sorry Amigo. As explained above, they are different products. I hope you are not a shill for Schiit or just a troll. Having said that, I'm sure you can compare these products and return the one you don't like and let us know  how the comparison went. Also, try to A/B X them. Who knows, you could be the first winner of  James Randi's 1 million dollars. Cheers.

[mourip]

6 hours ago, sam1000 said:

Sorry Amigo. As explained above, they are different products. I hope you are not a shill for Schiit or just a troll. Having said that, I'm sure you can compare these products and return the one you don't like and let us know  how the comparison went. Also, try to A/B X them. Who knows, you could be the first winner of  James Randi's 1 million dollars. Cheers.

 

He seems like neither a shill or a troll.  Perhaps he is just hoping that he might find good sound from a much less expensive rig. Certainly worth a try. There is always a sweet spot on the curve.

 

Your words were a bit harsh from someone who just walked in the door...

[LowMidHigh]

6 hours ago, sam1000 said:

Sorry Amigo. As explained above, they are different products. I hope you are not a shill for Schiit or just a troll. Having said that, I'm sure you can compare these products and return the one you don't like and let us know  how the comparison went. Also, try to A/B X them. Who knows, you could be the first winner of  James Randi's 1 million dollars. Cheers.

Thank you for the banal advice. I'm none the wiser.

 

The rest was well explained by mourip. 

 

(And don't go running to James Randy with every piece of equipment you own. His challenge is confined to cables, as I explicitly stated above.) 

[sam1000]

Thanks LowMidHigh for clearing that up. I apologize for my post. Your response to Tommy's review rubbed me the wrong way, but I think I might have misunderstood it and overreacted. Good sound to you!

 

[gererick]

Hi, question for Austinpop or anyone else: my setup is Mac Mini->ethernet cable->ultraRendu->USPCB adapter->ISO Regen->Lush^2 USB cable->Tx USBultra->Lush^2->TotalDAC D1-Direct.  

 

I read that one can 'drive' the Tx USBultra with the Mutec Ref 10 (as Austinpop does), but don't know what that means or what the connections are or what the Mutec is doing to or for the Tx USBultra.  Can someone explain?  For background, my technical knowledge is weak compared to most posters here.

[GryphonGuy]

1 hour ago, gererick said:

Hi, question for Austinpop or anyone else: my setup is Mac Mini->ethernet cable->ultraRendu->USPCB adapter->ISO Regen->Lush^2 USB cable->Tx USBultra->Lush^2->TotalDAC D1-Direct.  

 

I read that one can 'drive' the Tx USBultra with the Mutec Ref 10 (as Austinpop does), but don't know what that means or what the connections are or what the Mutec is doing to or for the Tx USBultra.  Can someone explain?  For background, my technical knowledge is weak compared to most posters here.

I'm curious as to why you have two USB regenerators. Why not just put ultrarendu into TotalDAC with USPCB?

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, gererick said:

Hi, question for Austinpop or anyone else: my setup is Mac Mini->ethernet cable->ultraRendu->USPCB adapter->ISO Regen->Lush^2 USB cable->Tx USBultra->Lush^2->TotalDAC D1-Direct.  

 

I read that one can 'drive' the Tx USBultra with the Mutec Ref 10 (as Austinpop does), but don't know what that means or what the connections are or what the Mutec is doing to or for the Tx USBultra.  Can someone explain?  For background, my technical knowledge is weak compared to most posters here.

 

Please see the second half of this post:

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37329-building-a-pc-to-improve-sms-200-ultra/?do=findComment&comment=766106

 

[gererick]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 11:42 AM, austinpop said:

 

I'm afraid I missed this post at the time, but hopefully better late than never!

 

It's very hard to compare the dX-USB HD Ultra with the tX-USBultra, since you are also (necessarily) changing the DAC input from USB to coax/Toslink/AES. So it boils down to which input the DAC is best at. If you have a DAC whose USB input is known to sound superior to its S/PDIF input, then absolutely, the tX-USBultra  is the way to go.

 

I have heard the dX-USB HD ultra in a friend's system, outputting AES to his Yggdrasil DAC. Suffice it to say the benefit of sCLK-EX is very evident in this path too. Ultimately, the answer of which one is best is: it depends.

 

 

Yes, absolutely, that is the beauty of the sCLK-EX approach. Think about what the sCLK-EX board is. It is a clock frequency synthesizer, with the ability to simultaneously generate 4 independent frequencies, that are programmable - usually by SOtM, although I suppose with the right tools and the instructions, others can do it too. This synthesizer is driven by an onboard 10 MHz reference oscillator. SOtM haven't published specs for this oscillator that I'm aware, but clearly it is of good enough quality to yield the reported SQ improvements.

 

The final piece of this architecture is the fact that the sCLK-EX board can accept an external reference clock, via its master clock input, to override the internal oscillator. This is where external OCXO clocks like the Mutec Ref 10 and Cybershaft come into play. Some of these external clocks have astoundingly low phase noise. Attaching a reference clock of this quality not only raises the quality of the sCLK-EX proportionately, it does so on all its outputs.

 

So yes - an external reference clock improves all the devices in the chain that are driven from that sCLK-EX board.

 

Thanks.  The only connection to the Mutec Ref 10 is the BNC wire between it and the Tx USBultra, correct?  No other connections?

[gererick]

7 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

I'm curious as to why you have two USB regenerators. Why not just put ultrarendu into TotalDAC with USPCB?

I don't recall where I've read (on Computer Audiophile) about both of them, but each of the ISO Regen and the Tx USBultra improve the sound quality when using a computer as the source.  I've read that the ISO Regen is no longer needed when using a Innuos SE and perhaps other servers.  If you look at Austinpop's system, he has the Tx-USBultra in his chain.  I believe he used to have the ISO Regen, before he bought the Innuos.  https://www.computeraudiophile.com/profile/25654-austinpop/?tab=field_core_pfield_3

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/profile/25654-austinpop/?tab=field_core_pfield_3

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31589-iso-regen-launch-thread-product-web-page-up-photos-etc/?tab=comments#comment-654974

 

[austinpop]

12 hours ago, gererick said:

 

Thanks.  The only connection to the Mutec Ref 10 is the BNC wire between it and the Tx USBultra, correct?  No other connections?

 

Yes, that's correct. You need to have the tX-USBultra provisioned with a master clock input - an extra cost option ($200?) when you buy it. Assuming you do, then yes, all you do is connect a BNC from the Ref-10 to the tX-USBultra. Make sure to use the correct impedance. The Ref 10 has 6 75Ω output ports, and 2 50Ω ports. When you ordered the tX, you would have specified whether you wanted 50 or 75Ω. If you don't know, check the back label. You can also tell by looking at the BNC input port what impedance it is.

 

You can tell impedance visually like this: http://www.cctvinstitute.com.br/bnc-75-or-50-ohms.html

[gererick]

11 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, that's correct. You need to have the tX-USBultra provisioned with a master clock input - an extra cost option ($200?) when you buy it. Assuming you do, then yes, all you do is connect a BNC from the Ref-10 to the tX-USBultra. Make sure to use the correct impedance. The Ref 10 has 6 75Ω output ports, and 2 50Ω ports. When you ordered the tX, you would have specified whether you wanted 50 or 75Ω. If you don't know, check the back label. You can also tell by looking at the BNC input port what impedance it is.

 

You can tell impedance visually like this: http://www.cctvinstitute.com.br/bnc-75-or-50-ohms.html 

Thanks!  I am sending the Tx back to have a port for an external clock put in.  I will only be connecting the Tx to the Mutec (if / when I get one).  Is 75 ohms preferable to 50 or vice versa?

[austinpop]

16 hours ago, gererick said:

Thanks!  I am sending the Tx back to have a port for an external clock put in.  I will only be connecting the Tx to the Mutec (if / when I get one).  Is 75 ohms preferable to 50 or vice versa?

 

I suggest 75Ω. There is a better selection of cables, and it is the more standard impedance out there.

[str-1]

Audio Bacon review https://audiobacon.net/2018/10/25/mutec-ref-10-master-clock-the-digital-audios-heartbeat/