Mutec REF 10 Masterclock

[jbm_2021]

Have to look if the tx-usb also has the green light visible through the vents

[jbm_2021]

With the Mutec added, I have a fair amount of clutter with all these massive cables from Sablon, Jena Labs and dual HF CT-2 in Schroeder configuration. Anyone else deal with this amount of clutter and any suggestions on how to manage this? My space is very limited.  I just don't want to get tired of all the cables and start selling someday. Music sounds great! BTW, I can confirm now that both the tx-usb ultra and the network switch have the solid green light. 

 

 

[Tokyokyoto]

33 minutes ago, jbm_2021 said:

I can confirm now that both the tx-usb ultra and the network switch have the solid green light

If I’m not mistaking I think you want to see a solid green AND a blinking green light in ea. piece.

[elan120]

54 minutes ago, Tokyokyoto said:

If I’m not mistaking I think you want to see a solid green AND a blinking green light in ea. piece.

That is what mine does, and here is a picture showing where the LEDs are (RED circle).

[MarkusBarkus]

9 hours ago, jbm_2021 said:

Anyone else deal with this amount of clutter and any suggestions on how to manage this?

Yeah, everyone else! Even with care and attention, it is a dense cable environment. 
 

I have some new gear and just yesterday was moving things around and thinking the same thing re: cables. 
 

I have some of those NCF cable risers and platforms, and they do help a bit. I have suspended cables with loops of string and rubber-bands in the past. Nothing has been ideal.

 

In addition to the clutter, moving gear yesterday I was reminded how sketchy these large/heavy cables can be with USB and ethernet connectors. I have put "shims" in place before to de-stress hanging weight, and will revisit that again. 
 

I think unsupported cables at insertion points are a weak point in my (everyone's?) chain, FWIW. 

[jbm_2021]

14 hours ago, Tokyokyoto said:

If I’m not mistaking I think you want to see a solid green AND a blinking green light in ea. piece.

That's right

[jbm_2021]

5 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Yeah, everyone else! Even with care and attention, it is a dense cable environment. 
 

I have some new gear and just yesterday was moving things around and thinking the same thing re: cables. 
 

I have some of those NCF cable risers and platforms, and they do help a bit. I have suspended cables with loops of string and rubber-bands in the past. Nothing has been ideal.

 

In addition to the clutter, moving gear yesterday I was reminded how sketchy these large/heavy cables can be with USB and ethernet connectors. I have put "shims" in place before to de-stress hanging weight, and will revisit that again. 
 

I think unsupported cables at insertion points are a weak point in my (everyone's?) chain, FWIW. 

Yes, it does put a significant amount of strain on the connectors in the equipment and cable as well. That is why I am paying attention to every cable and joint as over time, it can cause it to bend. 

[6aardvark9]

Just had my REF 10 upgraded to the SE-120... apparently the replacement oscillator fitted has 'pretty good performance'

Can't wait to get it back into my system!

MUTEC OCXO SE-120 Upgrade.pdf

[zoltan]

This paper below was written by John Swenson engineer at Uptone Audio. It is very important and clarifies what type of cables we should use as clock cable depending on the type of wave. Mutec is squire wave and the SOtM clock is a sine wave. Given the knowledge in the paper, I can see why a close to a 1000 euro clock cable from a well know brand sounded almost distorted in my system (with the REF 10) while my relatively inexpensive Canare 12G-SDI sounds quite good. I don't know why cable manufacturers don't state if their clock cable is for squire or sine waves. It seems to be key to cable design. 
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_Clock_Considerations.pdf?v=1616799482

 

[Pro Jules]

Mutex can supply clock cables now. 
 

why not get one from them?

 

i got two with my Ref 10

[zoltan]

6 minutes ago, Pro Jules said:

Mutex can supply clock cables now. 
 

why not get one from them?

 

i got two with my Ref 10

How much are the cables? 

[LowMidHigh]

14 minutes ago, Pro Jules said:

Mutex can supply clock cables now. 
 

why not get one from them?

 

i got two with my Ref 10

Linke? Spec? Photo?

[Pro Jules]

Cost - I don't remember

Link - email Mutec ,(I don't think its been added to their site)

Spec - the correct Ohms and classified as what you need by the manufacturer (and no snake oil pricing)

Photo - My unit is with a friend - so cant take a photo right now

 

They are thick and short (you can specify length, they are so thick they are difficult to bend)

 

Simply email or call Mutec..

[Pro Jules]

[KIKIWILLYBEE]

Hi ,

some advices .

low , or normal prices

outdoor , and mil.spec’s

semi rigid.

ultra low attenuation :  < o.2 dB m-1 /2 GHZ , high rejection , double shielding ….

Amphenol .us TMS LMH4oo :

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/294468343685?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=593038599821&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 

 

or like for SDI video :

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/151284003164?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

thanx ,

your’s

w ;-).

[kennyb123]

On 11/2/2021 at 2:35 AM, zoltan said:

Given the knowledge in the paper, I can see why a close to a 1000 euro clock cable from a well know brand sounded almost distorted in my system (with the REF 10) while my relatively inexpensive Canare 12G-SDI sounds quite good. I don't know why cable manufacturers don't state if their clock cable is for squire or sine waves. It seems to be key to cable design. 

Shunyata doesn’t mention it but their cables are working wonderfully with my REF10.  I’m using a 50 ohm Delta v2 clock cable between REF10 and my DAC and a 75 ohm Alpha v1 spdif cable between REF10 and my EtherRegen.  Any cable that excels at passing a square wave should be able to pass a sine wave without breaking a sweat.

[zoltan]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Shunyata doesn’t mention it but their cables are working wonderfully with my REF10.  I’m using a 50 ohm Delta v2 clock cable between REF10 and my DAC and a 75 ohm Alpha v1 spdif cable between REF10 and my EtherRegen.  Any cable that excels at passing a square wave should be able to pass a sine wave without breaking a sweat.

Funny you mention Shunyata because that is exactly the cable (it was the Delta) which I refer to in my comment above as a "well know brand". I didn't want to name the brand because I think it is a very good brand and make outstanding products. I had the cable for test for about 2-3 weeks and compared it against my Canare 12G-SDI L-5.5CUHD and my Oyaide DB-510. It clearly sounded inferior. I even invited audiophile friends over to see what they think (blind test, of course) with same result. It was over 3 years ago, I don't remember all the details of our tests but I'm pretty sure that I tried it both on the Mutec MC3+USB and the SOtM SMS-200 ultra. I sent it back to the dealer eventually. It MAY have been a broken cable in some way, I have no way of knowing but didn't sound right. To be honest with all the testing equipment they have at Shunyata (I hope) they should publish some measurements of cables when it counts, like a clock cable. Canare publishes attenuation from 10Mhz to 6Ghz. Next time, I have a chance, I will probably buy their top L-8UHCD or the Mutec cable if not too pricy. 
Again, this is just my experience, I'm not saying that Shunyata clock cables don't work in other people's systems. 
https://www.canare.co.jp/products/cables/index.php?tid=pr4_coax_att 

[kennyb123]

26 minutes ago, zoltan said:

Funny you mention Shunyata because that is exactly the cable (it was the Delta) which I refer to in my comment above as a "well know brand". I didn't want to name the brand because I think it is a very good brand and make outstanding products. I had the cable for test for about 2-3 weeks and compared it against my Canare 12G-SDI L-5.5CUHD and my Oyaide DB-510. It clearly sounded inferior.

I don't believe there was a Delta clock cable until the v2 series came along - and the v2 series didn't launch until last August.  The Delta v1 SPDIF was available only with RCAs so it couldn't have been that cable you heard either.  Are you sure it was a Delta?

 

I can certainly understand that some might have a preference for other brands.  But the likelihood of a Shunyata cable sounding "almost distorted" is almost nil unless it's either defective or it's a counterfeit.   I have no doubt though that the two cables you mentioned do a really nice job.  And they're affordable, which is a big plus.  Solid choice.

[zoltan]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I don't believe there was a Delta clock cable until the v2 series came along - and the v2 series didn't launch until last August.  The Delta v1 SPDIF was available only with RCAs so it couldn't have been that cable you heard either.  Are you sure it was a Delta?

 

I can certainly understand that some might have a preference for other brands.  But the likelihood of a Shunyata cable sounding "almost distorted" is almost nil unless it's either defective or it's a counterfeit.   I have no doubt though that the two cables you mentioned do a really nice job.  And they're affordable, which is a big plus.  Solid choice.

No, you are right, I don't remember the exact model. I only said Delta because I don't remember that there was anything on the cable (like on other models). It might have been Alpha V1 (?). It was definitely original and cost around GBP 600-700. It was sent to me by the UK representative who I met in consecutive years at the Munich High-End Show. He also has/had the same Devialet amp as I do. I got to know him through that forum. I also consulted with him about my experience which he conveyed to the manufacturer. They suggested that there must have been something wrong with that particular cable. In the end, it was a bit of a hassle sending expensive cables back and forth internationally, so I gave up. Then again, if I have a chance to try the Shunyata again, I'd be happy to. Since then, I moved to SE Asia from Europe, so for now, it is even less likely but who knows what the future holds. 

[Superdad]

14 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Any cable that excels at passing a square wave should be able to pass a sine wave without breaking a sweat.

Sure, but just a reminder that what is best/most important for square wave clocks (very low broadband attenuation) is not that important for sine wave. But super-shielding (rigid tube being best) is very important for sine wave yet not a priority for square wave clock cables.

[We wrote about this, as well as impedance matching, etc. in our paper on the subject.]

[Pro Jules]

If you ask the designers of the equipment you are buying expensive cables for if you are wasting your time, their answer will be “yes”

 

(try asking them?) 

 

but carry on….

[thyname]

8 minutes ago, Pro Jules said:

If you ask the designers of the equipment you are buying expensive cables for if you are wasting your time, their answer will be “yes”

 

 

Unless they are in the business of selling cables too, their answer will typically be “…our equipment is built / designed to work at peak performance with any cables built to specs. However, we recommend you test and experiment for yourself, as many of our customers report improvements”

 

Which makes perfect sense, as this is a business. What do you expect them to say? That the cables they include in the box are trash.

[Pro Jules]

I recommend talking to the actual gear designers one to one, in person.  They have their customers at heart, not cover-up conspiracies. Many actually pick up the phone personally, with no operator to screen their calls. If you start the conversation that you are customer they will happily have a short conversation with you on the best way to operate the gear they designed. 

 

Honestly, I challenge you to try it. (Or keep your head buried in the sand). 

[thyname]

12 minutes ago, Pro Jules said:

Or keep your head buried in the sand

Thank God we have you here to enlighten us! Please name the “actual gear designers” you personally spoke to one to one, in person, as you proclaimed.

[Pro Jules]

My challenge stands. Try phoning the company that makes your equipment. Ask them what wordclock cable they reccomend and if it's worth spending extra to buy a really expensive one. 
 

Let us know how you get on please.