A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[WuNgUn]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

I'm using USB 3 cards with vbus powered from a lps-1 with connections to a usb NIC, music HDD, and USB 2 DAC, in CPU direct PCIE slots.  SQ is wonderful.

 

System boots from Optane SSD in NVME slot.

For comparison, my OS is on SSD, gigabit on PCIx and all media is on my local NAS server. Audio output is thru optical spdif. Trying to minimize all bus traffic...

Also playing thru memory with J River

[lmitche]

8 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

For comparison, my OS is on SSD, gigabit on PCIx and all media is on my local NAS server. Audio output is thru optical spdif. Trying to minimize all bus traffic...

Also playing thru memory with J River

Minimize PCH traffic and you'll hear a difference.

[rickca]

45 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Minimize PCH traffic and you'll hear a difference.

I agree.  Unless you're using a low-power SoC, motherboard ethernet and USB ports just don't sound good in my experience.  Just like SSD/hard disk, these components need clean power. 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I agree.  Unless you're using a low-power SoC, motherboard ethernet and USB ports just don't sound good in my experience.  Just like SSD/hard disk, these components need clean power. 

 

 Fortunately, many C.A. members have now found out for themselves just how much there is to be gained by using clean power, even for an O.S. SSD ! 

 

[WuNgUn]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

 Fortunately, many C.A. members have now found out for themselves just how much there is to be gained by using clean power, even for an O.S. SSD ! 

 

And yet others proclaim external, clean DC power for the SSD does diddly... 

[mozes]

5 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

And yet others proclaim external, clean DC power for the SSD does diddly... 

I agree with @sandyk on this. I heard a nice improvement when I went from a battery to LPS-1 with two LT3045  boards in series to power my HDD(OS+Data). 

[hurka]

I will order now the usb ultra 3 extra clock output,24.576 singxerF1, 24mhz  mobo usb, 25 MHz mobo system clock.

I'm right or somebody know some better set up????

[sandyk]

Just now, WuNgUn said:

And yet others proclaim external, clean DC power for the SSD does diddly... 

 

I was talking about cleaner power for internal SSDs.

Whether or not it results in a worthwhile improvement with an external SSD will depend on how well it's implemented.

Using a long external SATA lead for example, isn't the way to go. eSata is a better choice if available.

 As for a USB connected SSD, while you may make an improvement when powering it with cleaner power,

it's still dependent on other well documented USB problems, including how well the USB lead is constructed, and whether it meets the relevant USB specifications. Shorter is usually better, too.

Keeping noisy +5V SMPS from getting into the USB cable is well worthwhile too.

 Something like the attached may also be helpful, as it connects the +5V leads of both USB 2.0 ports together to increase it's current capability to 1A instead of .5A where only one port is in use at a time.

It also features an additional 100uF bypass  capacitor across each port's power leads, for a total of 200uF.

 In my case I replaced these with higher quality 100uF Panasonic FM electrolytic capacitors. 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-5-10pin-2-USB2-0-Port-HUB-HD-Audio-Output-Floppy-Drive-Expansion-Front-Panel-/401342678607?hash=item5d71e3464f

[KingRex]

12 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

That JCAT femto is an option but I wouldn't half ass it.  Apply those funds to the sCLK-EX board purchase with modification done by SOtM to the server.  Now you got something that even makes software optimization a mute matter, in my opinion.  

Your never going to get as good of SQ from a router based internet stream as you would from your own data source. But you can try to clean it up.  The sCLK-EX point on the LAN of the server would go a long way towards that.  Now everything is so simple.

I don't get it.  The sCLK-EX appears to be a clock.  What does it have to do with connecting Ethernet to my server.  Yes my internal data source is outstanding.  I am absolutely astounded at the SQ with Win Server 16, AO and HQ player.  Incredibly musical and engaging.

  And yes.  Simple is the key.  My wife needs to turn the  monitor on and select an artist to listen too.  There can be no selecting files or pathways to get or send a feed.  Right now its all there.  Very easy to navigate. 

When you say router based internet stream, do you mean th JCAT card is the router?  Thanks

[ElviaCaprice]

52 minutes ago, KingRex said:

I don't get it.  The sCLK-EX appears to be a clock.  What does it have to do with connecting Ethernet to my server.  Yes my internal data source is outstanding.  I am absolutely astounded at the SQ with Win Server 16, AO and HQ player.  Incredibly musical and engaging.

  And yes.  Simple is the key.  My wife needs to turn the  monitor on and select an artist to listen too.  There can be no selecting files or pathways to get or send a feed.  Right now its all there.  Very easy to navigate. 

When you say router based internet stream, do you mean th JCAT card is the router?  Thanks

One sCLK-EX point would be applied to your LAN/ethernet (both LAN if two) port for clocking of that ethernet stream being received, if not using LAN, skip this clock.  Then you would have 3 points left to apply to other clocks.  I would suggest the system mobo clock, add a tXUSBexp PCIe card and replace clock, mobo usb or external component.  

 

No changes to OS or software necessary.  Keep what you have.  JCAT is not needed.

[FredM]

EX clocks are mostly/only connected with an endpoint, DDC and/or switch. Curious: Why are the EX clocks not connected to the clock of a DAC...!?

 

Are DAC clocks immune or already of high quality? Or is the upstream (EX)clock signal passed to the DAC via an USB or I2S connection?  (DAC as s slave)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WuNgUn]

7 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

I was talking about cleaner power for internal SSDs.

 

So was I....

[WuNgUn]

3 hours ago, FredM said:

EX clocks are mostly/only connected with an endpoint, DDC and/or switch. Curious: Why are the EX clocks not connected to the clock of a DAC...!?

 

Are DAC clocks immune or already of high quality? Or is the upstream (EX)clock signal passed to the DAC via an USB or I2S connection?  (DAC as s slave)

 

 

 

 

 

 

A clean clock signal to the DAC is THE most critical in my opinion too!

Maybe they are referring to asynchronous USB interface...? Or maybe not...you dont want an inferior clock taking control of a better clock upstream!

[WuNgUn]

8 hours ago, mozes said:

I agree with @sandyk on this. I heard a nice improvement when I went from a battery to LPS-1 with two LT3045  boards in series to power my HDD(OS+Data). 

There is no cleaner DC power source better than a battery...

And what data are you referring to? Music data? On the same drive as your OS?

[sandyk]

35 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

So was I....

 Well, that is not correct, as many C.A. members can testify.

 

Quote

There is no cleaner DC power source better than a battery...

 Rubbish. Many higher current batteries have internal electronics for protection.  A Lifepo 4 is one of the quieter ones.

 You often need to also use relatively long leads to connect them, which can expose them to RF/EMI, and usually a battery holder with it's own internal resistance points  which can be a problem sometimes due to the cheap metal used. Haven't you ever needed to clean the battery contacts on Remote Controls for example ? ( I don't mean after battery leakage either)

 A LT3045 voltage regulator I.C. has Ultralow RMS Noise: 0.8μVRMS (10Hz to 100kHz)

 Which batteries are that quiet ?

 No, we are NOT talking about music on the OS SSD, although doing the same for a Music storage SSD also results in a further improvement.

Not that I, or others who report these things, expect you to believe this !

[WuNgUn]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 A LT3045 voltage regulator I.C. has Ultralow RMS Noise: 0.8μVRMS (10Hz to 100kHz)

 Which batteries are that quiet ?

Youre either uninformed, argumentative or blinded my your own opinions....probably a bit of both.

Why would you even mention integrated electronics in a battery?? Who would use such a battery?? lmao

Battery holder?? Do you not do anything DIY? Is everything you do purchased based on others opinions? The more you spend the better it HAS to be, right?

There is no rms noise in a battery cell, PERIOD! The fact that you even quoted a frequency range comparing a reg to a battery cell power goes to show youre not well informed.

[sandyk]

36 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

Youre either uninformed, argumentative or blinded my your own opinions....probably a bit of both.

Why would you even mention integrated electronics in a battery?? Who would use such a battery?? lmao

Battery holder?? Do you not do anything DIY? Is everything you do purchased based on others opinions? The more you spend the better it HAS to be, right?

There is no rms noise in a battery cell, PERIOD! The fact that you even quoted a frequency range comparing a reg to a battery cell power goes to show youre not well informed.

Clearly you haven't read too many of my posts of my DIY gear.

You are the one who is argumentative and out of touch with many members.

Also, many batteries have small random noise bursts.

 Attached are just a few samples of my own, and other highly modified designs.

Incidentally, both my Class A Preamp, and 15W/Ch. Class A Power Amplifier are fully DC coupled with no capacitors in the signal path. The Preamp has a Freq. Response Flat 10hz to 500khz; falls off 2db at 1.6MHZ, The DAC has no output capacitors either, and when selected by the Preamp, both it's active and earth return leads are switched right through the Preamp to the 15W/ch. Class A P.A.

[marce]

1 hour ago, WuNgUn said:

There is no cleaner DC power source better than a battery...

And what data are you referring to? Music data? On the same drive as your OS?

Not quite true...

[WuNgUn]

7 minutes ago, marce said:

Not quite true...

You just simple stated an opinion... What is your argument? 

[marce]

Why should it be an argument, that's two people you have come back aggressively too...

You need to do some research on using batteries, before you make such statements as you did, like any main supply to a power delivery system how it is engineered and implemented is what gives you the final results, low noise can be created from SMPS, Linear or battery. Quite often work on low noise devices that operate from a battery, they all have some form of post regulation after the battery... But as said low noise power supplies are more than just the front end power, this is especially true of digital electronics as the main supply is only part of the picture, of more concern is the local decoupling and local power delivery to the digital devices, especially where there is a lot of high di/dt switching....

[mozes]

1 hour ago, WuNgUn said:

There is no cleaner DC power source better than a battery...

And what data are you referring to? Music data? On the same drive as your OS?

No battery can compete with the LPS-1, I tried many batteries. Try it yourself. 

Music data

[beautiful music]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

No battery can compete with the LPS-1, I tried many batteries. Try it yourself. 

Music data

totally agreed

[Johnseye]

8 hours ago, KingRex said:

I don't get it.  The sCLK-EX appears to be a clock.  What does it have to do with connecting Ethernet to my server.  Yes my internal data source is outstanding.  I am absolutely astounded at the SQ with Win Server 16, AO and HQ player.  Incredibly musical and engaging.

  And yes.  Simple is the key.  My wife needs to turn the  monitor on and select an artist to listen too.  There can be no selecting files or pathways to get or send a feed.  Right now its all there.  Very easy to navigate. 

When you say router based internet stream, do you mean th JCAT card is the router?  Thanks

 

8 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

One sCLK-EX point would be applied to your LAN/ethernet (both LAN if two) port for clocking of that ethernet stream being received, if not using LAN, skip this clock.  Then you would have 3 points left to apply to other clocks.  I would suggest the system mobo clock, add a tXUSBexp PCIe card and replace clock, mobo usb or external component.  

 

No changes to OS or software necessary.  Keep what you have.  JCAT is not needed.

 

It's my understanding that the sCLK-EX also provides noise filtering.  I don't know the details, only a brief comment from May at SOtM.

 

[WuNgUn]

2 hours ago, mozes said:

No battery can compete with the LPS-1, I tried many batteries. Try it yourself. 

Music data

$400 is a lot for a 1.2A PSU... No matter how good it is. 

To say no battery can compete with it is controversial to say the least. As mentioned above, implementation has a major role in the outcome, of course... but as others would like to point out, they want to list the failings of the setup rather than the benefits of the concept, just for the sake of argument I s'pose. 

[mozes]

25 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

$400 is a lot for a 1.2A PSU... No matter how good it is. 

To say no battery can compete with it is controversial to say the least. As mentioned above, implementation has a major role in the outcome, of course... but as others would like to point out, they want to list the failings of the setup rather than the benefits of the concept, just for the sake of argument I s'pose. 

Value is subjective. If you find that battery let me know, I will buy it right away.