A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sunny_time_99]

Did you compare other regulators, before you build this monster psu? imho you can paralell as much 3045 as you want, it will never sound really good. 3045 is not specially designed for audio use, like others. It got nice specs but it allways sounds flat. Ripple is only one aspect in psu design. There are many ways to reduce ripple...

[sunny_time_99]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

But don't forget that there is about 20x more resistance in 2 feet of 18AWG wire. 

Hi, this always brings me to the point that no connector is the better connector. whenever possible, I connect the wires directly or only on one side.

regards

sunny

[sunny_time_99]

6 hours ago, RickyV said:

Now I am confused. Smps do not need buffer caps. LPSU need buffer caps before regulation but after regulation not so much. In general but the not needed ones will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

The capacitor bank in the Melco switch is not needed but will do something with the noise and is probably audible.

 

 

Hello everybody, there is a big difference between theory and practice. Theoretically, smps should not be operated with additional output capacitors - but if you do that, you will notice sound improvements depending on the capacitor you use. the same applies to linear power supplies. Yes: in front of the regulator, you are welcome to use big and expensive capacitors - but it is a fairy tale that there is no noticeable increase in capacity behind the regulator. it is always best to make these experiences yourself and not to move in theoretical papers. All of the sound enhancements that I have achieved with my small craft group in the past 5 years came from unconventional approaches. Strangely, if you do it the way you always did, you get the same result, but not a better one.

 

happy listening

Sunny

[sunny_time_99]

4 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said:

I would just like to add my two cents here...

 

Please do not consider my writings as an offense but as a starting point for further experimentation and critical thought. I need to double-underline this, as I have no intention to 'treat' one's mind or to persuade anybody in favor of my thoughts.

 

I have been in the audio cables business for several years as manufacturer of audio cables. Together with my partner we had made in depth analysis and theoretical approach to the plethora of the phenomena that impact sound waves transmission through conductive material. Both lab measurements and theoretical models of transmission.

 

After having spent more than 100k Euros in this arena, two things I would like to focus on:

 

1. Don't lose your valuable time and money searching for silver conductors. All silver conductors, regardless of structure, treatments, mixture with other metals, etc, sound *worse* than copper conductors but please be careful: all other parameters being equal. When you compare silver vs copper with all the parameters of A-B comparison being identical (diameter, insulation, tempering, crystalline structure, etc), copper *ALWAYS* wins and silver always loses. This of course means that you may experience a silver cable performing better than a copper cable but when you examine the conductors under identical denominators, then copper always wins.

 

2. Don't spend a cent for cryogenicaly treated parts and accessories. They are so bad for audio. They take out the soul and magic of music. I'm a mechanical engineer as you know, with gathered experience in this field for aprox. 20 years now. Cryogenic treatment does exactly the opposite of what we are looking for, in audio reproduction. Several guys here know who I am. For those that don't, I need to write that I manufacture audio reproduction components where cost is not considered an obstacle. In my components, a single cryo treated item or part or whatever is enough to destroy their flavor and their signature. I have evaluated each and every component in the past and under no circumstances I accept to install cryo treated parts, even if this is a custom order or even if this has the impact of cancelling the order. In my amplifiers I am using an IEC socket that costs around 50 cents of a dollar only for the reason that it sounds best among all. I hope that this might sound as something strange to your ears. It's true. 100% true.

 

The debate copper vs silver has a long history. Please don't start over another debate here. After having spent so much in research and manufacture in the field, with this notice I would just like to declare my findings so as you benefit. I know that the vast majority here will not take my comments into account, they won't have a second thought because they also have their own judgements. My intention is that the few that anticipate life through a thoughtful approach, now have a hint to think over their own findings and judgements once more. Under a critical thought and point of view only!

Thank you Peter,

I agree 100% with you. I've been doing this hobby for over 30 years and I've spent 25 of them swapping cables. For beeing my hobby, i build several hundred cabled during the last years. Connectors, Solder, Shielding, Material... i checked that all. Today I can say with a clear conscience that the big gamechanging differences do not come from the cables.

If a cable makes a big difference, another part of the sytem - a bottleneck - is usually responsible. I tried silver from different manufacturers in different places and sometimes used it for years. Sure, the silver does something. But is silver a neutral sounding material? No! And sooner or later it becomes a problem. I brought my entire chain back to copper (duelund tinned copper) comming from Neotech and Siltech Silver. The music is back - because the silver is simply not neutral. Often i could read in different threads, Duelund or copper sounds dull.

With today's wealth of experience, I can say the reason was never the cable. The problems were always in different parts. The majority in the power supply. I always find it quite amusing, that if you start with DIY power supplies, you are asked discreetly in side areas of the forum - cable discussions are generally classified and accepted higher. The power supply makes the music.

 

Today I simply use good copper in all constructions and preferably duelund tinned copper and luckily I don't get the idea to see this place as a Problem.

 

happy listening

 

Sunny

[sunny_time_99]

Hi,

I would like to share my listening experience with the Buffalo BS-GS2016-EU with you. For me, the Buffalo 2016 has been in continuous operation for more than 21 days. I initially ran the Buffalo with the built-in power supply for a few days and then built it into my chain. Nice deep bass was the first sentence that I wrote down. After a while I converted the Buffalo to my power supply. The sound corresponds exactly to the SR 7 (Dual Voltage: Series No. 28). I had bought it a few days ago from Garvin (here from the forum) and can now say by comparing it that my power supplies, which I have developed for my own use for 6 years, cannot be distinguished acoustically from the SR7. In my entire chain, I now have a good 30 power supplies that correspond in terms of sound to an SR7. In the DAC  its e.g. 11 individual power supplies.

 

 

About my current setup of the downstream route:

Fritzbox Router (SR7 Equal)> Switch –1 (SR7 Equal)> Sonore OM modules (SR7 Equal)> Finisar or Planet SFP> LC Dual single> Finisar or Planet SFP> Sonore OM modules (SR7 Equal)>( Etherregen) > Switch 2> Endpoint: Mini PC (2x SR7 Equal –Clock and computer) or Intel NUC 7i7DNHE (1x SR7 Equal)

 

Software Euphony and Daphile

 

 

I have noticed differences between the Planet SFP with 20km and the Finisar FTRJ-8519-7N-2.5 that are hardly noticeable.

I built a D-Link DGS 108 with a reference clock, clock and 3.3V and 5V of the switch were equipped with the same power supply (SR7 Equal). This switch is my main comparison to the Buffalo. I now have position 1 and position 2, which I can fill in my chain with the Buffalo or the modified D-Link. After more than 14 days of playing time, the sound of Buffalo is still nervous. The bass is good - but the overall sound looks torn in direct comparison. The modified Switch is completely different. D-Link: everything plays conclusively and without any hardship. To solidify this impression, I also operated the Buffalo directly with the SR 7.

In my chain, I can only operate the Buffalo at position Switch 1, but not at Switch 2. When the buffalo sits right in front of the endpoint, resolution, dynamics, musical flair are missing. I had my setup and my observations checked by my craft buddy who has a comparable chain. He compared the Cisco SG200-8 (without p - for PoE) with my power supply unit at the Switch 2 position with the Buffalo. Both can use the same high quality 12V power supply.

My recommendation: the Buffalo is worth the money! It brings an improvement in the downstream. I would use it at a starting point (for example in „switch position 1“) - but not connected to the end point, because it is compared to similarly upgraded (modified) switches such as e.g. the Cisco SG200 does not match their tonal performance.

So there are some alternatives in the area of switches. Next I will provide the Buffalo with a Neutron Star reference clock.

Happy listening

 

 

Sunny

 

p.s. i hope me and Google translate make it able to understand. english is not my native language.

I don't write so much about power supplies to offer them here. You should only have an idea at which level I am listening to Music.

[sunny_time_99]

 

Hello Paul,

thank you for your message and assessment. In essence, I wasn't interested in a power supply

comparison. The Buffalo was the topic. I am sorry to be off topic again.

Such a comparison would be a little briefly described as "comparable" or "equal". The new power

supplies that I am building today are also better than the ones that I am building built e.g. 4 years

ago. They are also significantly more powerful. A lot has happened and a lot will happen.

 

Since your SR 7 is known as a reference and is rightly regarded and recognized as a high quality power supply - I also own it and therefore do not tell about something that does not exist or that is only known from hearsay. Providing my power supply as a reference for the observation is of little use.

 

With the reference to your power supply (even if older date) others have a benchmark.

So that you can exclude the power supply as the cause of what I noticed about the Buffalo.

With the different power supplies that I tried on the Buffalo, the same observations always occurred

that made the power supply seem unlikely as a possible cause. After the the next Step in Buffalo tuning - the clock-mod. i can tell if that was the thing that makes ist sound like it did in my chain.

 

Happy listening

 

Sunny

 

[sunny_time_99]

Hi, if you tweak your buffalo with high quality copper, why don't you add a 1.000uF Capacitor e.g direct to the board. Its nearly nonsense to place the last capacitor inside of the external psu and that means too far away from the place where it is needed. The distance capacitor to load should be as short as possible. Use the type, that your psu uses too, to prevent tonal differences.

 

Regards

 

Sunny

 

[sunny_time_99]

For my personal taste the ER is too warm. Heat reduces the Lifetime of the internal Capacitors. If this will be a Problem or not - we will find out in a few years. The ER Case Looks nice - of cause. 

[sunny_time_99]

12 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Like Adrians at TLS! 😂

 

Still works mind you as a NAS running Euphony smb server! 

 

Unshielded Clockcable at high frequencies like 24/25mhz and 10-15cm length? OMG!

I hope that there is a good and clean external Supply for the 3 Clocks - otherwise the effect of "better" clocks is not that big.

 

happy listening

 

Sunny

 

imho a unshielded clockcable should not be longer than 4-5cm - with a shielded one, 15-20cm is not a big Problem for the Signal Quality. with unshielded cable you loose as much, as you try to win. only my 2 Cent. in my Setup are al lot of Neutron Stars inside, one in the Buffalo, one in my Netgear Switch, one in my Ideon 3R, 4 in my DAC...

[sunny_time_99]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

 

Nice build, can you tell something about the SQ gain. I am thinking of using the same clock. Why don't you use the square wave output? PM me if it is too technical.

The Sound Quality is not comparable with the stock Buffalo. This is a complete different Switch now. As i said some time before the Buffalo was not my first choise. I have 7 different Switch and there was allways something in the sq that did not please me. after waiting outside of my System for a few months i start to give it a second Chance. i use my new power supply in latest Version and the newclassd.com Neutron star. if you ever try a Neutron star you know how much this perfect clock-concept increases sq. i have modified about 10 -15 different device. ist allways a big step. there is no way back. the clock have many Advantages: Isolator to prevent ground Loops, heater to keep the xo in perfect temperature, adjustibe (for me;-) - so no aging drift ..2 isolated Outputs and many more.  there is only one disadvantage... the  power supply, thats included in the set is not the one i would like to use.

Youre right,the active Output is the better one, if you keep the cabledistance short. i dont want drill in the original buffalo pcb,  so i take the coax-output.  at the Moment the modified buffalo is the best sounding switch i have. there are 2 cisco Switch without clockmod, so in a few weeks i will compare them. i have some additional Neutron stars waiting for a good Job inside of a Switch...

[sunny_time_99]

Every Cable is an antenna for all kind of pollution. That can be hf, lowf, and common mode noise. Only to name three. Ferrite balls have nothing against CM noise

[sunny_time_99]

22 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Just little clarification the coax output of the newclassd clock is a sinewave the second output is square wave and is meant for oscillator replacement. A 3 wire flat cable is supplied by the manufacturer and should be very short.

So what is better sine wave or square wave?

The active output is for "square can oscillator replacement" - if you want. It has a voltage input from the circuit you want to feed. So the NS2 and 3 don't need to be set to a special peak to peak voltage like 3.3V or 5V. (for the coaxial output you can choose 1.8V Pk-PK, 3.3V and 5V).the actice output is doing that for you. Both outputs are isolated but its not square wave.

For very short distances and unkown pk-pk voltage and a 4pin Oszillator, use the active output.

The coaxoutput can do the 4pin oscillator replacement also, but its good to check it with an oscilloscope if the signal is exactly from 0-3.3V e.g. Sometimes you need a variable resistor to adjust it, if its not perfect. Lars is showing it on the NSInstall page.

 

 

The impact on the sq is not that big. The active is a bit clearer if you really have 4-5cm distance to the place where the clock was before.

 

With one neutron Star, a 20 Bucks mini fanless PC from Ebay you can build the NUC7i7/Euphony Killing device. Much higher resolution, higher dynamics, better music flow and definition of instruments. The step up in sq is higher than using a Buffalo switch, ER instead of not using it. If someone is interested, i can post it here. I am using that device for over 6 years now. for 2 years nuc/euphony was the better configuration. But with that clockmod, my actual psu and a freeware...i sold all my 3 NUC 7i7 that i got for comparison.

 

Regards sunny

[sunny_time_99]

7 hours ago, tgb said:

I use a Neutron Star 2 on the spdif part of my DC/DC converter (Singxer SU-1) : great job => sound is smooth... Crystek clock (although PS is OK) sounds harsh in comparison.

 

Hi,

the NS will do a great Job there.

crystek is building very good clocks. sometimes i use them or Abracon Clocks on the Neutron Star  (its not easy to do that - you need to remove some Parts from the NSII).

The main thing is, if you can hear harschness in your Setup, the cause is normally not what you think - the clock e.g or the chipset of the device etc. The cause of the Problem is the power supply. if the ripple and noise rate is too high (like 95% of all Audio devices), the Sound will become harsh. Clocks are very sensitive - i think the most sensitive parts in our audio devices. in the most Audio devices the clock power supply is very poor. some mV ripple.... every clock in my Setup is feed by a power supply with about 12-15µV ripple - that means 0,000 012V @100mA - plus the extra Regulation on the Neutron Star...that is, what does change the Sound. (Ripple in this Dimension is hard to measure. you need a times 1000 amplifier to make it visible.)

If you are going to do that, you will hear no harshness in your crystek clock anymore. The Isolator on the NS will also prevent ground Loops. 

Audio designer need more practical lessons and practical knowledge - stop designing your psu on ltspice... the result will  look the same, and sound awful.

 

happy listening

 

sunny

[sunny_time_99]

11 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

Please do , it seems very interesting!

 

Hi, pls give me some Days. I need to build one  for an friend, and i am going to make some Picture while buildung. due to the fact, that english is not my native language ...i need a few days and a lot help from Google translate. hope that it might be fluid enought.

 

regards sunny

 

for your preperation, you can have a look at Fujitsu Futro S900 Thin Client - G-T44R

[sunny_time_99]

Hello and thank you for your question. 
At first I would like to give only marginal information about my power supply unit. With over 6 years and 
currently over 600 comparative 
power supplies built, the development path was complex and expensive. I am just self-taught and a hobbyist 
who wants the best power supplyfor his hobby. I had a well-defined goal that has now been achieved. Since 
2016 I have been using active rectification, a material selection that has been tried and tested over countless 
hours, a CLC Filter, an active filter element that is placed in front of the regulator attenuates the 
noise floor by an additional 50-60db, a modified high-performance regulator (mostly LC58xx). I have recreated 
almost every circuit concept (so far there are more than 45 variants) and subjected it to extensive listening
tests. My current power supply consists of the essence. The 
amazing thing after this trail is how easy the circuit is at the end. What I am going to present here in a few
days is not a cheap or low budget project - only the mini PC is. I have been using the Futro for 6 years now and
have replaced it with a NUC7i7 for a about a2 years periode and 
run it with Euphony. For 2 years I liked it better and I had 4 NUC7s to compare the software and hardware 
modifications. Basically I have the same device several times, because only then can modifications actually be 
tracked and optimized. 

As an audio PC, the Futro has many advantages:

- Fanless design

- Favorable price (leasing returns, often available for a few euros)

- Made in Germany !!! Although it now operates under Fujitsu

- Only one power supply unit (20V) required

- modifications are easy.

 

 

@Tanomek7, I've tried almost every power supply on the Futro - including the original power supply, of course. But it is just as unsuitable in terms of sound as the original power supply unit of the NUC. You need al lot of magic until a smps sounds really good.

I would like to present a solution here that clearly beats a NUC7i7DNHE e.g. with SR7 in all cases. So it should be clear that it should not be a low-budget project.

Please, please, if you want to implement this method, do not try any ZeroZone power supplies, Chinese cheap products, Farad3, HDPlex, or comparable power supplies. They just don't do it! There will be no magic at the end. If you want to implement this path, please only use the best power supplies on this planet.

To answer your question further, I use the Neutron Star 2 (3 works too, but I still have 4 unemployed Neutron Star 2, the Neutron Star 3 has no direct advantage through my power supply.) I supply the Neutron Star from the 20V of the futro. The maximum voltage is 24V DC for NS2 and NS3, so that's not a problem. In addition, I use an active filter element and a 10,000uF capacitor in front of the Neutron Star in order to achieve decoupling from the computer. There will be a voltage drop about 1V, so the NS2will run at 19,xx V. There are different stages of expansion, with one NS2 it starts – at the momet I am going with 2 Neutron Stars in my Futro, in a card reader, 2x to supply the Futro internally and later also the USB / Ethernet adapter from Ugreen, which I use. The nice thing is that all 4 devices are supplied with 25MHz. In the last few years I have converted a number of Futros in different versions for friends.

Users with 19V power supplies can rest assured. Most of the Futros also start with 19V

 

 

A little more patience…. Sunny

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sunny_time_99]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Hello @sunny_time_99, are you a manufacturer or affiliated with the industry in any way?

no, as i said, only Hobbyist on the way to find perfect Sound. 

[sunny_time_99]

51 minutes ago, austinpop said:

This is very interesting I’m sure, but just a gentle reminder this needs to very quickly get back on topic of direct listening impressions.

 

If this is a product you’re making, it would be helpful to start a thread of its own to discuss the details.

Hello Austinpop,

 

ok, then pls delete my postings from today, i am going to open an thread for this Topic.

 

regards

 

Sunny

[sunny_time_99]

TX-USB Ultra:

if you want an real Clock update for the reclocker, forget the Masterclock-Option.

I did a modification last Month. Instead of using a dedicated 10Mhz-external reference Clock, i ignore the sCLK-EX Board, and use the Cable from sCLK Clock Signal Output and connect it to a reference 12MHz-Clock(50ohm). Technicaly its the better solution. The sCLK do not need to transform the 10MHz into 12Mhz that is used by the USB-Reclocking-Section. The result is a  cleaner and more dynamic  Sound than possible with a external 10MHz-Clock Input.

 

happy listening

 

Sunny

[sunny_time_99]

Hello Jai, 

i am sorry i took not enought Pictures while i did the mod. I think you will get the information on the attached Picture. There is a 50 Ohm Connection between the sCLK Module. Instead of using the SotM Way, and feed the System with a 10 MHz to be upscaled to 12 MHz, that ist used by the USB-Reclocking Part (i mark it with a red circle, were you need to feed it with a 12 MHz-reference-Clock. You Need a 50 Ohm Clockoutput from a e.g. Neutron Star. and a 3.3V PK-PK Signal. You Need a  U.FL connector x 1 Cable to connect it.

 

Regards

Sunny