SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[ted_b]

Question: sacd_extract command line tool and avoiding clicks

sacd_extract reportedly has a bug that can cause clicks or other discontinuities between tracks when converting from ISO directly to DSF.

 

The solution, according to much discussion over the last two years, is to:

(1) use sacd_extract to convert ISO to DFF; then

(2) use Miska's DFF2DSF tool to convert the DFF to DSF.

 

Step (1) remains unclear to me. Should I use the -p switch to split the ISO into multiple DFF files, or should I use the -e switch to convert the ISO to a single DFF "edit master" file? Does the first option overcome the bug in sacd_extract? The second option seems useless because Miska's DFF2DSF tool does not seem to split a single DFF file into multiple DSF files.

 

 

First off, always use sacd_extract v0.38, which fixes the bug that caused clicks extracting to DSF (final blocks were truncated). Second, if you are not sure you have sacd_extract v0.38 then simply use Bogi's tool I've already linked to previously (two days ago in post 169). One of its goals is to seamlessly create a workflow that gets around the earlier DSF bug by first extracting to DFF, then saving the metadata temporarily (since DFF can't store it), then uses Jussi's converter to go to DSF, then adds the tags back in. It's all automated, and will delete the working files once done.

 

All that being said, the Windows and Mac versions of Jesus's ISO2DSD GUI tool already use the v0.38 version of sacd_extract so no worries there.

 

Finally, if you are a masochist (joking) and simply interested in doing all this manually with the command line tool, then go get v0.38 and use the arguments you'll find in the help listing.

 

 

Here is v0.38

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3487125/sacd_extract.rar

[Audio_ELF]

Shucks ... thwarted again!

 

I have a PS3 ... with too later firmware.

And now this new method ... uses the next generation Cambridge Audio player!

 

Oh well ... back to the drawing board.

[Iain]

Could someone please confirm if the Pioneer BDP-180 will work?

 

Nope. Link

 

Yep. 180 is out for now.

 

That reads as if it may be resolved at some point.

[ted_b]

That reads as if it may be resolved at some point.

Only in that the 180 was listed in the original post (which I can no longer edit) and was presumed to be a MTK8560 chipset. If the actual truth is that is is another chipset aside from 8560 or 8580 then, no it ain't coming back. Although there have been a couple addtl universal players discovered to be either an 8560 or 8580, there have been NO addtional chipsets found to work other than those two.

[cddumat]

Incorrect, at least for Oppo 103D on the latest stable US firmware. My stick is ExFAT formatted (I think; will double-check tomorrow).

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I did some more tests (on an azur 752BD) and these were my findings:

 

What did work for me:

- Using a USB stick with a partition table with only one partition (the first). The partition table could be MBR or GPT, both did work fine.

- The stick had to be formatted with FAT16, FAT32, ExFAT or even NTFS, all worked fine. Actually the FAT variants most probably were with VFAT extensions (is it possible to have them without these days?)

 

What did NOT work for me:

- using a stick without a partition table at all (be it mbr or gpt). No matter what filesystem has been used, it did not work. That is in line with the AutoScript line ".. cp /mnt/sda1/...", the 1 of sda1 specifying the first partition on a storage medium.

- using a stick with more than one partition: The tray opens and then quickly closes again before it is fully opened. Inserting a SACD after this does not help, the daemon is not reachable. No idea why this is the case, but it easily could be repeated.

- using a stick with a partition table (gpt or mbr), and using ext2fs filesystem.

 

What i did not try:

- using a partitioned USB stick with the appropriate partition not beeing the first, and then adjusting the AutoScript file to something as "... cp /mnt/sda2/... "

- Using other filesystems than FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, ExFAT, ext2fs

 

Hope this info helps some. The most important fact as i see it, is the necessity to use the first partition on a partitioned USB stick, at least for an azur 752BD. Filesystem seems to be fairly irrelevant, as long it is a microsoft one.

 

Feel free to correct me if your findings do disagree.

[Jarmo]

Thanks, will wait for Jarmo's reply.

 

 

As I wrote in my post, I don't know nothing about network, which cddumat clearly pointed out. I use Win 10 with basic configuration, I couldn't do any. But I didn't switched off DHCP. I turned off the option My Network from the player, which is on in Azur 752 by default. Now it is not a client to the UPnP servers as my PC. Clearly the connection is not down as I am ripping SACDs now, not before and I even tried the other computer in vain.

 

As I understand it (and I gladly admit this is just a wild guess with my knowledge), the player reserves the address and a port for the use of My Network and there is a collision as ISO2DSD tries to connect to the same address and use another port. Would be great to know, if I am totally wrong and someone with better understanding clears the picture. If not, well, I continue my rippings with joy, as this is fantastic. There are hundreds of SACDs in the public library in my home town . . .

[ted_b]

There are hundreds of SACDs in the public library in my home town . . .

 

As I stated in my first post (and in my SACD ripping guide) ripping and extracting SACDs is for those music discs that are your personal property, and is primarily intended for two purposes: 1) archiving ISOs (so SACD-R can be burnt if your orginal purchased disc is damaged) and 2) converting to file-playback for computer-based players capable of playing DSF or DFF. FYI. Off my soapbox.

[cddumat]

As I wrote in my post, I don't know nothing about network, which cddumat clearly pointed out.

 

Sorry, did not wanted to be rude, just to point out a bit about the network stuff that's going on.

 

I turned off the option My Network from the player, which is on in Azur 752 by default.

 

Strange, as i can rip with 'My Network' being turned on in my 752BD. So that does not seem to be an absolute showstoppper, but clearly for your situation. No idea why you are having these problems, i'm at a loss.

[austinpop]

Question: sacd_extract command line tool and avoiding clicks

sacd_extract reportedly has a bug that can cause clicks or other discontinuities between tracks when converting from ISO directly to DSF.

 

The solution, according to much discussion over the last two years, is to:

(1) use sacd_extract to convert ISO to DFF; then

(2) use Miska's DFF2DSF tool to convert the DFF to DSF.

 

Step (1) remains unclear to me. Should I use the -p switch to split the ISO into multiple DFF files, or should I use the -e switch to convert the ISO to a single DFF "edit master" file? Does the first option overcome the bug in sacd_extract? The second option seems useless because Miska's DFF2DSF tool does not seem to split a single DFF file into multiple DSF files.

 

While it is true that there was a bug in sacd_extract that was fixed in v0.38, it is also true that the problem of pop/ticks/clicks at track boundaries still exists in a post v0.38 world. As before, it seems to vary based on the choice of renderer or DAC, and can occur even on DFF files. Some have claimed it happens when the amplitudes at the end of the current track and the beginning of the next track are either a) not zero, or b) not equal, but I haven't seen anyone definitively get to the bottom this.

 

See http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-iso-dsf-no-clicks-23588/index3.html#post562664

[Jarmo]

Ted, in Finland, where I am living, you can copy for your own private use, but not for handing the copy over or selling it. Maybe it is so in USA, too? There are differences in copyrights laws in different countries. Or are SACDs a different case because of their more efficient copy protection?

[Jarmo]

Sorry, did not wanted to be rude, just to point out a bit about the network stuff that's going on.

 

 

 

 

Strange, as i can rip with 'My Network' being turned on in my 752BD. So that does not seem to be an absolute showstoppper, but clearly for your situation. No idea why you are having these problems, i'm at a loss.

 

You were not rude. My English expression is a bit clumsy, sorry.

[benalaur_01]

Thankyou Grill (#189) for reminding me about the Guano Apes SACD.

 

There were 3 discs I could not extract iso's from with the PS3

1/ Guano Apes - Don't Give Me Names

2/ Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy - Piano Trios No 1 and 2, Julia Fisher/Pentatone (weird characters in titles? paths too long?)

3/ Jacintha - Lush life (scratches on disc)

 

On the Oppo 105 iso's were successfully extracted from all 3

To extract dsf files - all good (except for the Mendelssohn iso required using a batch file to shorten the extracted file names (eg test batch file previously a few times on this thread)

I use tag and rename to add all the extra metadata - very easy to use

 

While I'm here, I'll add my 20c worth re the clicking/ticking issue with extracted dsf files (as this has been mentioned a few times on this thread)

My experience is purely related to the Oppo 105

I play dsf files via portable solid state discs attached to USB-A inputs or using o'share to play the files via my wireless network from my PC.

The Oppo 105 has 2 modes for playing back DSD - DSD mode (no base management) and PCM mode (files converted to 24bit 88KHz files, allows base management).

In DSD mode there are always clicks before and after each dsf track (but are quite hard to hear in the listening position on most files) - probably wouldn't be noticed unless one was actually listening for them.

In PCM mode - no clicks at all (even if listening with head phones). I use PCM mode always when listening to multichannel dsf (which is quite often)

 

In my experience dff files give the same result as the dsf but the ticks are even quieter.

 

I have used ISO2DSD and ISO2DSF programs (both work very well) but I still hear clicks in DSD mode on the oppo

 

I do use Foobar if I am working on the computer (any playing music via the computer speakers) and I don't hear any clicks or ticks when playing dsf in this situation.

 

Honestly the clicks don't bother me and once again my experience is limited to the oppo 105

[sneakmasterg]

Anyone tried with the US Pioneer Elite BDP-80?

 

It looks very similar to the BDP-170, but don't know if the chipset is the same.

 

This one works too!

 

I purchased a Pioneer Elite BDP-80FD and successfully ripped my first SACD with it. This is a good option for a lower cost player available in the US. I was able to find an Amazon warehouse deal for a "used" one under $150, though there are none that low at the moment. It will be nice not to have to worry about my PS3 which seems to die once a year.

[[email protected]]

How to know what chip my BD player is using?

[HedgeHog]

Another poster quoted the same checksums from PS3 to the non PS3 method, so loudness differences are perhaps in the DSD processing of your player/DAC, sumpin'.

 

Thanks...it might be but I output all media to 2x DSD via DoP. So the DAC should receive all signals as the same and my DAC's light indicate such. I found JRMC's Audio Analyzer tool and compared the a track's (Dire Strait's Money For Nothing) original redbook ALAC, redbook layer off the SACD, and the SACD layer. TBH, I'm not sure what all of it means.

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 800]

[TR]

[TD]Hugh Masekela - Stimela (Hope Train)[/TD]

[TD]ALAC[/TD]

[TD]ISO[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Volume Level (R128)[/TD]

[TD]-1.0LU[/TD]

[TD]5.1LU[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Volume Level (ReplayGain)[/TD]

[TD]4.02dB[/TD]

[TD]10.08dB[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Dynamic Range (R128)[/TD]

[TD]17.8LU[/TD]

[TD]17.9LU[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Dynamic Range (DR)[/TD]

[TD]16[/TD]

[TD]16[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Peak Level (R128)[/TD]

[TD]+0.7dBTP;+0.7Left,-1.4Right[/TD]

[TD]-6.7dBTP;-6.7Left,-7.4Right[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Peak Level (Sample)[/TD]

[TD]-0.7dB;-0.7Left,-1.4Right[/TD]

[TD]-6.7dB;-6.7Left,-7.4Right[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]BPM[/TD]

[TD]93[/TD]

[TD]93[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

I also noticed sometimes the track goes into clipping. So the rip must be doing something funny as I don't hear that playing the SACD on the Oppo.

 

Anyway, still super convenient and thanks to everyone involved.

 

-H

[Kal Rubinson]

.........................................

There were 3 discs I could not extract iso's from with the PS3......................................

 

On the Oppo 105 iso's were successfully extracted from all 3

Amen. I have had a similar experience. The Philips IFA Demonstration SACD produced only unplayable ISOs with the PS3s but a successfully playable one with the Oppo 105!

[RolandGo]

There are no hidden extensions, there is just one FAT32 partition.

 

I'll format the stick in a Windows computer tomorrow and try it again.

 

 

Still no luck. I'll keep on keeping on.

[One and a half]

The Cambridge Audio CXU arrived today with great anticipation (and expectation bias). This was a demo model from a dealer, so reset everything to factory defaults, found the auto play and resume, switched both off. FW version is CXU-07-1031.

 

Just in case, created a new MBR with Bootice on a blank Sandisk FAT32 8GB and copied the Autoscript folder with 3 files to USB thumb drive.

Ran Sonore ISO2DSD, mistook the Server IP by two digits out, so lessons learned, write down IP address. Execute and away we go!

 

Ripping speed was about 2.6MB/s about the same reported by other posters. The metadata for the tracks was already there, added cover art, album details with MP3TAG, not much effort then to play. Just superb.

 

Many special thanks to the developers of this method, for a simpleton like me to rip an SACD, I really appreciate the effort to make this process as seamless as playing the music, and it's glorious!

[One and a half]

Thanks...it might be but I output all media to 2x DSD via DoP. So the DAC should receive all signals as the same and my DAC's light indicate such. I found JRMC's Audio Analyzer tool and compared the a track's (Dire Strait's Money For Nothing) original redbook ALAC, redbook layer off the SACD, and the SACD layer. TBH, I'm not sure what all of it means.

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 800]

[TR]

[TD]Hugh Masekela - Stimela (Hope Train)[/TD]

[TD]ALAC[/TD]

[TD]ISO[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Volume Level (R128)[/TD]

[TD]-1.0LU[/TD]

[TD]5.1LU[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Volume Level (ReplayGain)[/TD]

[TD]4.02dB[/TD]

[TD]10.08dB[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Dynamic Range (R128)[/TD]

[TD]17.8LU[/TD]

[TD]17.9LU[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Dynamic Range (DR)[/TD]

[TD]16[/TD]

[TD]16[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Peak Level (R128)[/TD]

[TD]+0.7dBTP;+0.7Left,-1.4Right[/TD]

[TD]-6.7dBTP;-6.7Left,-7.4Right[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Peak Level (Sample)[/TD]

[TD]-0.7dB;-0.7Left,-1.4Right[/TD]

[TD]-6.7dB;-6.7Left,-7.4Right[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]BPM[/TD]

[TD]93[/TD]

[TD]93[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

I also noticed sometimes the track goes into clipping. So the rip must be doing something funny as I don't hear that playing the SACD on the Oppo.

 

Anyway, still super convenient and thanks to everyone involved.

 

-H

 

Yes, the Volume Level of -1.0 compared to +5.1 is a weird one. DR is much the same, but the peaks are lower for the SACD rip, don't quite follow this.

 

Either:

 

Jriver's tool is wrong

The SACD is recorded too hot (high)

DoP issue? (....maybe, bit of a stretch)

 

You can't do a checksum, since ALAC and the ISO are different. Can you extract a DSF and compare the same to the ALAC?

[wouterk]

Any suggestions for Pioneer BDP-180? 170 seems out of stock everywhere and I can't justify purchase of the Oppo for just ripping SACD ...

[CatManDo]

wouterk, read the previous pages. Ripping with the Pioneer BDP-180 does not work (currently).

 

I don't know where you live, but the Pioneer 170 is available new from a Marketplace seller on amazon.de

[seeteeyou]

More likely than not Pioneer BDP-180 won't get a "fix" in the near future, who knows?

 

---

Since BDP-80FD was already confirmed to work fine:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-oppo-or-pioneer-yes-its-true-29251/index10.html#post566837

 

We could take a look at our local Best Buy / Magnolia stores and find out if there were any deals as mentioned below:

 

 

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=276428

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/pioneer-bdp-80fd-streaming-3d-wi-fi-built-in-blu-ray-player-black/7671005.p?id=1219285527817

https://www.magnoliaav.com/shop/tv-video/blu-ray/p/pioneer-7671005/

 

Or simply grab used ones from New York for cheap:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-BD-80FD-Blu-Ray-Disc-Player/191928931813

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-BDP-80FD-Blu-Ray-Disc-Player/201629414361

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-Elite-BDP-80FD-Blu-Ray-Disc-Player/191928347980

 

 

3 of them are available from this brand spanking new seller right now, $99 + $15.43 shipping

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00LIQST6W

 

Brand new ones cost just under 300 bucks at the moment so that ain't such a bad deal IMHO

 

http://www.google.com/shopping/product/3417964196052218916

 

---

We could find plenty of brand new BDP-160 in China and it's like just under $150 a piece over there. Adding international shipping and TaoBao agent fees etc. should cost us 200 bucks or so.

 

These guys do accept PayPal and ship internationally, just ask them and see how much they're gonna charge for shipping etc.

 

http://www.shenzhenaudio.com

[One and a half]

One other thing:

The assigned DHCP address kept changing after three power off and on cycles.

 

So a fixed IP address is heartily recommended. Once the DHCP is assigned enter the Network setup and set the IP address from there, and leave the rest.

 

* - Cambridge Audio CXU (CXU-01-1031)

[wouterk]

Shenzhenaudio - their website does not include Pioneer unfortunately. I am based in Shenzhen close to Hong Kong. I contacted several HK shops with a listing of the BDP-170 on their website, but all seem to be out of stock. I contacted an eBay seller in the UK - no reply yet (listed as BDP-170, but all details are for the 160)

- where in China?

Thank you:)

[tmtomh]

Quickie question for those who's ripped SACDs successfully: Are your ISO's louder than the same RB layer ripped to FLAC? I have to turn down my volume quite a bit to play the SACD rips. FLAC and ISO are played from JRMC 21 w/ its volume maxed. Volume is controlled via analogue (I think) on my DAC.

I could be misunderstanding here, but I do know that many folks who rip SACDs and then convert them to PCM FLAC files, have their conversion apps (like Foobar I think) do a volume/gain adjustment during the conversion. I believe this is something to do with the different way DSD and PCM encode samples, and the resulting differences in the headroom of each medium.

 

In other words, my understanding is that a DSD signal that doesn't clip, could become a PCM signal with clipping if the conversion does not include a volume adjustment.

 

Is there any possibility that JRiver or something in your playback chain is converting your ISOs to PCM during playback?