AudioDoctors dead simple audio tricks...

[Jud]

Wow, 15 devices!! This seems excessive.

Are you sure they are all needed in the playback chain?

How much aggregate current draw is anticipated?

 

So this is the problem: the devices also include the TV, a Blu-ray player or two, one of my two music HDDs, one of my 3 eero routers, my PS3, my Apple TV, a couple of DirecTV boxes, tuner, phono, El Cheapo....

 

Yeah I could plug these into separate nearby wall plates, but everything is on the same circuit so that I'm thinking would exacerbate the problem. I'm not particularly looking for an expensive "audiophile" solution, just something that I can plug everything into but the amp.

[AudioDoctor]

So this is the problem: the devices also include the TV, a Blu-ray player or two, one of my two music HDDs, one of my 3 eero routers, my PS3, my Apple TV, a couple of DirecTV boxes, tuner, phono, El Cheapo....

 

Yeah I could plug these into separate nearby wall plates, but everything is on the same circuit so that I'm thinking would exacerbate the problem. I'm not particularly looking for an expensive "audiophile" solution, just something that I can plug everything into but the amp.

 

One or more of these?

 

AC Power Conditioner Dectet | PS Audio

 

or this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/P11VT3-Performance-SurgeArrest-Splitter-Protection/dp/B0012YLTR6

[The Computer Audiophile]

I've heard really good things about some of the Shunyata products lately. Anyone else?

[Jud]

One or more of these?

 

AC Power Conditioner Dectet | PS Audio

 

or this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/P11VT3-Performance-SurgeArrest-Splitter-Protection/dp/B0012YLTR6

 

This is going to aggravate folks who are just trying to help, so my apologies in advance. I'll tell you why I think these won't help me.

 

- I don't want to use more than one strip, because I've only got two outlets (if I'm going to do what you talked about, plugging into one 2-socket outlet, leaving one socket to plug in the amp directly). I don't want to daisy-chain strips, because I'm thinking once again that will foster ground loops.

 

- I don't want surge protection, which is widely reputed to degrade sound (unless you get the expensive variety, which degrades the sound either less or not at all, depending on whom you believe).

 

- So I need a single strip with room for 14-15 plugs, no surge protection, preferably no extraneous noisy circuitry like the LEDs everyone likes to put in their switches to let you know the strip is turned on. (Don't know if you've noticed, but many of these seem to become intermittent over time - I'm guessing that's electrically noisy.) Anyone know of anything like that?

 

- My wife and I plan to start the construction of our new home in the next few months, so something on the order of a Shunyata is definitely not in the budget.

[mrvco]

I've been using Blue Circle Audio's PLC Thingee power conditioner with good success.

[mansr]

- So I need a single strip with room for 14-15 plugs

 

Get two 10-socket strips and connect them to a two-way splitter. Or shorten the cord on one to a few inches and chain it off the other.

[alfe]

Get two 10-socket strips and connect them to a two-way splitter. Or shorten the cord on one to a few inches and chain it off the other.

 

And a fire extinguisher for safety

[AudioDoctor]

This is going to aggravate folks who are just trying to help, so my apologies in advance. I'll tell you why I think these won't help me.

 

- I don't want to use more than one strip, because I've only got two outlets (if I'm going to do what you talked about, plugging into one 2-socket outlet, leaving one socket to plug in the amp directly). I don't want to daisy-chain strips, because I'm thinking once again that will foster ground loops.

 

- I don't want surge protection, which is widely reputed to degrade sound (unless you get the expensive variety, which degrades the sound either less or not at all, depending on whom you believe).

 

- So I need a single strip with room for 14-15 plugs, no surge protection, preferably no extraneous noisy circuitry like the LEDs everyone likes to put in their switches to let you know the strip is turned on. (Don't know if you've noticed, but many of these seem to become intermittent over time - I'm guessing that's electrically noisy.) Anyone know of anything like that?

 

- My wife and I plan to start the construction of our new home in the next few months, so something on the order of a Shunyata is definitely not in the budget.

 

It might aggravate some, but not me. Stupid thing to get aggravated about. Sounds like there may be some DIY in your future...

 

[AudioDoctor]

And a fire extinguisher for safety

 

HA!

[AudioDoctor]

I've heard really good things about some of the Shunyata products lately. Anyone else?

 

No idea. Power conditioners is a road I have only begun to travel.

[artur9]

I'm not particularly looking for an expensive "audiophile" solution, just something that I can plug everything into but the amp.

 

Maybe you can get PIAudio Group to make you a 15 plug strip.

[TubeLover]

So this is the problem: the devices also include the TV, a Blu-ray player or two, one of my two music HDDs, one of my 3 eero routers, my PS3, my Apple TV, a couple of DirecTV boxes, tuner, phono, El Cheapo....

 

Yeah I could plug these into separate nearby wall plates, but everything is on the same circuit so that I'm thinking would exacerbate the problem. I'm not particularly looking for an expensive "audiophile" solution, just something that I can plug everything into but the amp.

 

Jud,

 

Speaking from experience, to be safe, you must, at the very least, separate the tv from all the rest. Too much power draw from tv's. I once had two VERY high quality (professional level) line conditioners of the same model. These were made available to me by a vendor I worked with, or I could not have afforded them. The first one I attached to at least eight pieces of audio equipment, including amplifiers without issue. The second I plugged into only my tv, and was forced to immediately disconnect it, as the tv literally caused it to screech and almost instantly overheat. Now granted, that was a plasma tv, with higher current draw, but still. To this day, I have limited a single line conditioner or high quality power strip to a single television. Just my thoughts.

 

JC

[accwai]

Speaking from experience, to be safe, you must, at the very least, separate the tv from all the rest. Too much power draw from tv's. I once had two VERY high quality (professional level) line conditioners of the same model. These were made available to me by a vendor I worked with, or I could not have afforded them. The first one I attached to at least eight pieces of audio equipment, including amplifiers without issue. The second I plugged into only my tv, and was forced to immediately disconnect it, as the tv literally caused it to screech and almost instantly overheat. Now granted, that was a plasma tv, with higher current draw, but still. To this day, I have limited a single line conditioner or high quality power strip to a single television. Just my thoughts.

 

It might be worst than that. Even if it doesn't cause the audio side to screech, a TV on the same power bar can degrade the micro dynamics and soundstage noticeably. And it might not be just the power draw. Depending on how sensitive the audio side is, just having the TV on standby and plugged in can affect the sound. So one can't assume just just because the TV is turned off, it will have no side effect. One has to test to find out. In my case, all video gear are on a separate AC circuit. The only link between audio and video is a Toslink cable. So the ground on the two sides are not mixed.

[Jud]

Get two 10-socket strips and connect them to a two-way splitter. Or shorten the cord on one to a few inches and chain it off the other.

 

The splitter sounds like an idea. Don't particularly want to do surgery on cords or daisy-chain outlet strips (the latter is what I've got now).

 

Anyone know of a couple of 8- or 10-socket strips, non-fancy (w/o surge protectors) at reasonable prices, even hopefully non-audiophile reasonable prices?

 

Another question, would lifting the ground for the strip the TV plugs into with a "cheater plug" have any effect for good or ill?

[Middy]

I'd get a qualified electrician in and add some extra sockets so you don't burn down your house...

 

Safety first brother... ...then check your insurance......

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Jud]

I'd get a qualified electrician in and add some extra sockets so you don't burn down your house...

 

Safety first brother... ...then check your insurance......

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

It's fine, no load I don't already have on the circuit. It's just that I've accumulated this welter of 5(!) daisy-chained power strips over a decade or so and would like to rationalize things, plus not incidentally clean up some noise from ground currents.

[mansr]

I'd get a qualified electrician in and add some extra sockets so you don't burn down your house...

 

[mmerrill99]

Jud, forgive me for saying this but you have some contradictions here - on the one hand you say you don't want audiophile quality yet you are looking to reduce ground loop issues & lumping all devices together to be fed from the same mains spur.

 

Do you currently have a ground noise issue or are these devices not even in use at the moment?

[Melvin]

The splitter sounds like an idea. Don't particularly want to do surgery on cords or daisy-chain outlet strips (the latter is what I've got now).

 

Anyone know of a couple of 8- or 10-socket strips, non-fancy (w/o surge protectors) at reasonable prices, even hopefully non-audiophile reasonable prices?

 

Another question, would lifting the ground for the strip the TV plugs into with a "cheater plug" have any effect for good or ill?

 

Completely ignoring you're request for non-surge protection, I will recommend Brick Wall products, which I've used for years. I hear no degradation of sound with mine in place. In fact, there may even be a slight improvement compared to plugging directly into the wall outlet. (As with most things audio there are plenty of folks in both camps.) This is a link to their 8-outlet box and they also have a 10-outlet rack-mountable one.

 

Eight-Outlet Audio Surge Protector | Brick Wall

[The Computer Audiophile]

I've used this one in the past - https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-10-Outlet-Master-15-Foot-F9D1000-15/dp/B000BVC0WO

 

Belkin prices are always good and the build quality of this one is great (all metal).

 

[Speedskater]

If you want to take it to a higher level, these are 'good engineering practices' :

Grounding Systems

 

SRPP :: System Reference Potential Plane

STGP :: Signal Transport Ground Plane

ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Grid

ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Conductors

ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Potential

ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Plane

MESH-CBN :: Meshed Common Bonding Network

MESH-IBN :: Meshed Isolated Bonding Network

PEC :: Paralleled Earth Conductors

PBC :: Paralleled Bonding Conductors

 

Conductive Structure

 

*****************************************

It's really not about one outlet box or one receptacle, it's about reducing the total length of cords & cables from component to component.

[Jud]

Jud, forgive me for saying this but you have some contradictions here - on the one hand you say you don't want audiophile quality yet you are looking to reduce ground loop issues & lumping all devices together to be fed from the same mains spur.

 

Do you currently have a ground noise issue or are these devices not even in use at the moment?

 

I do currently have a particular ground noise issue. Even if I resolve that, I'm supposing the current configuration (perhaps I'll post a diagram, but would not want to make strong men weep just yet) would be quite vulnerable to that sort of thing.

 

Not wanting "audiophile quality" may not be as much of a contradiction as you would suppose. It's going to sound ludicrous considering what I'm complaining about, but simplicity is something I've found beneficial from an audio perspective. And you can read any number of audio sites that will tell you the bells and whistles on many audiophile power protection and distribution units are bad for sound. (E.g., surge suppression - which after some time is also a fire hazard, as the metal oxide varistors that are bad for sound also become vulnerable to combustion under load after a while; or Das Blinkenlights that many manufacturers can't seem to resist. All surge suppression isn't so inimical to sound or a fire hazard, and is incidentally better at surge suppression, but that costs some real money.)

[mmerrill99]

I do currently have a particular ground noise issue. Even if I resolve that, I'm supposing the current configuration (perhaps I'll post a diagram, but would not want to make strong men weep just yet) would be quite vulnerable to that sort of thing.

I think you are jumping the gun a bit - solve your ground noise issue first & then see what configuration you can use which is more robust

 

What is your GN issue, anyway?

 

Not wanting "audiophile quality" may not be as much of a contradiction as you would suppose. It's going to sound ludicrous considering what I'm complaining about, but simplicity is something I've found beneficial from an audio perspective. And you can read any number of audio sites that will tell you the bells and whistles on many audiophile power protection and distribution units are bad for sound. (E.g., surge suppression - which after some time is also a fire hazard, as the metal oxide varistors that are bad for sound also become vulnerable to combustion under load after a while; or Das Blinkenlights that many manufacturers can't seem to resist. All surge suppression isn't so inimical to sound or a fire hazard, and is incidentally better at surge suppression, but that costs some real money.)

Sorry, but you are correct - it does sound ridiculous "simplicity is something I've found beneficial" & then you want 15 devices plugged in - what am I missing here?

 

NB I agree about the PS devices, btw - they introduce more problems than they solve, IMO

[Jud]

I think you are jumping the gun a bit - solve your ground noise issue first & then see what configuration you can use which is more robust

 

What is your GN issue, anyway?

 

 

Sorry, but you are correct - it does sound ridiculous "simplicity is something I've found beneficial" & then you want 15 devices plugged in - what am I missing here?

 

 

There wasn't much I could do audio-wise with the electrical sub for our home (couldn't fire him because he came with the contractor who came with the land), so I've got 3 2-outlet receptacles all on the same circuit for both the audio and video equipment. We're selling the house within a year so I'm not having rewiring done. In the new house I believe there will be much more opportunity to do better planning in advance. But meanwhile I've got all this stuff to plug into one or more of these 3 wall plates....

 

I tried doing some isolation, plugging the TV and other noisy stuff into an MIT Z-strip, and plugging the DAC and preamp into a Mapleshade power strip, but this little ground noise issue has arisen lately (can't tell you more about it specifically just yet, sorry), and AudioDoctor's proposed solution has an appealing simplicity to it.

[Jud]

If you want to take it to a higher level, these are 'good engineering practices' :

Grounding Systems

 

SRPP :: System Reference Potential Plane

STGP :: Signal Transport Ground Plane

ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Grid

ZSRG :: Zero Signal Reference Conductors

ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Potential

ZSRP :: Zero Signal Reference Plane

MESH-CBN :: Meshed Common Bonding Network

MESH-IBN :: Meshed Isolated Bonding Network

PEC :: Paralleled Earth Conductors

PBC :: Paralleled Bonding Conductors

 

Conductive Structure

 

*****************************************

It's really not about one outlet box or one receptacle, it's about reducing the total length of cords & cables from component to component.

 

I'd be interested in more detailed descriptions, since as I've noted in this thread, my wife and I plan to have a new home built soon and I would like to be able to discuss provisions for the audio and video systems with the electrical sub well in advance.