Uptone Audio Regen

[AndreasB]

Dear Alex,

 

I have read also in an earlier post that enclosed Solid Regen Connector the shield/braid aren't not connected with the A&B connectors. Obviously by default by the Solid adapter manufacturers.

 

The USB Audio cables I have investigated resp. decomposed do use braid / shield as ground on top off pin4. Therefore I am using a " solid" custom made 2<->2,5 inch "Solid" adapter with connected shields / braids ( according the USB 2.0 standard). Expecting that this would be superior to Solid Regen adaptor. That's the reason (good or wrong) that I didn't used neither compared it with the Solid Regen Connector.

 

All other custom made USB cables I am using (as posted a few days earlier on CA) are max 8-10 inch. From Mac Mini=> Schiit Wyrd = > Amber Regen => Schiit LOKI DSD. Off topic: Shorter in my case an audible improvement.

 

If not connecting the braid/ shield like the Solid Regen Connector is a better audiophile solution I do need to change all other USB cables too. Or is that a wrong direction? Especially your remark that " you let us speculate what is best solution " triggers me? In my opinion we do need better guidance from the real Guru's like you.

Am very eager to hear your answer and that of others CA-members too.

 

Very best regards, Andreas

Ps. Besides that I will spend some hours coming weekend comparing both Solid" Connectors and 2 new short USB cables without the shield / braid soldered. I don't know what the outcome will be. And if my iPhone can corrupt the USB signals ....due a lack of shielding?

 

 

Indeed "solid" USB adapters are not really solid. I have cut open and dissected almost a dozen of the lift buggers (in choosing the maker of the one I include with the REGEN). They are all mostly the same. The 4 pins are run and soldered to each plug with about 15mm of wire.

 

These adapters (at least all the ones I have tested) do not connect the shields from one side to the other. I personally don't see this as a problem since they do connect pin 4 ground wire and virtually every USB device--host port, DAC, etc. (including the REGEN) ties pin 4 ground to its jack shield. So while adaptor shields "float" when you test it unconnected, they don't soon as you plug it into something. I'll leave it to you and John and others to speculate if that is a good thing or not.

[JohnSwenson]

On the subject of shields and grounding the basic concepts are simple, the shield needs to be connected to the chassis at both ends. This says absolutely nothing about how it should be connected to the to the ground wire in the USB cable. Purely from a shield effectiveness standpoint the shield does not have to be connected at all to the ground wire, as long is it is connected to the chassis at both ends.

 

The standard in USB land is that the shields are connected to the chassis ground at each electronics box and the ground wire is also connected to the chassis ground in each box. With this setup the best practice is for the shield in a cable to be isolated from the ground wire in that cable. The shield passes through and the ground wire passes through, but they do not connect IN THE CABLE. The connection between shield and ground wire happens in the electronics box, not the cable.

 

So it looks like the solid adapters are doing it right, they have shield connectivity from end to end, and ground wire connectivity from end to end, but the shield and ground wire are not connected together. They could be better, from Alex's description it sounds like the shield is connected in the form of wire just like all the others. The correct geometry would be an actual shield around the other wires. But at least having a wire connecting the shields of the two connectors makes an attempt at properly preserving the impedances.

 

So boiled down to the basics,

 

in a CABLE:

shields are connected end to end

ground wire is connected end to end

shield and ground wire are not connected in the cable

 

In a BOX:

shields connected to chassis

ground pin connected to chassis

 

That should about do it.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

So it looks like the solid adapters are doing it right, they have shield connectivity from end to end, and ground wire connectivity from end to end, but the shield and ground wire are not connected together. They could be better, from Alex's description it sounds like the shield is connected in the form of wire just like all the others.

 

Morning John:

Hope you got some better rest last night. That was a LONG call we had--and I have already ordered in some of those .1" header quads we spoke about to experiment on that solution.

 

Regards the adapters: That's the thing. They DON'T connect the shield from one side to the other. Once you plug one into anything (even just on one side), then you can get continuity between the shields because as we have both said, the device connects shield to pin 4--generally right at the jack.

 

--Alex C.

[rogerdn]

Can the stock blue iFi cable that ships with the iUSBPOWER be purchased separately ?

 

Does anyone know ?

[Cycleman]

I do not agree, it might be cheap, it might be chinese but like other iFi products they are carefully selected and work very well. I couldn't believe that a stock cable from an iFi product could be better than all those much higher priced cables discussed here, so I bought the SUPRA cables to test. As I said the iFi stock cables work significantly better in my setup.

 

The iFi iUSB Power blue stock cable is 56cm long (measured like the 70cm SUPRA cable).

 

To be clear, does the iFi blue USB cable just work better than any other short cable?

 

Or does the iFi also work better, in your system, than the supplied solid USB connector?

 

Or are you using a cable only because the solid USB connector does not fit in your space?

 

It's an average give away cable; a little aggressive compared to better cables. Does have some clarity

but it's not a serious higher end audio component.

 

I am talking about the iFi Gemini, Wireworld Starlight Silver etc.

 

If this were an in-person conversation, and you had interrupted like that, I would probably say something like:

"Sorry, Eff-Mak, I was talking with Dyson, not with you."

 

But no, it's an interwebs conversation, which means in some people's minds that they should directly answer questions clearly addressed to other people.

 

Dave, who says the key words in his previous post were "in your system" which of course anyone other than Dyson whom he was addressing cannot really answer logically

[RichB]

Can the stock blue iFi cable that ships with the iUSBPOWER be purchased separately ?

 

Does anyone know ?

 

No (not from iFi or their US Distributor.). Though I would not be surprised if you can find the exact cable for sale on eBay or somewhere else on line... It's a generic cable and not proprietary to iFi AFAIK.

 

I would like to point out that besides the dual headed Gemini USB cable, they DO make a regular A to B USB cable called the Mercury. It is available in 0.5m ($105) and 1.0m ($135) lengths. It is not as inexpensive as the Supra, but it is a good sounding USB cable. It does adhere to the 90ohm spec too . . .

 

Accessory – Mercury

 

Specs:

[TABLE=width: 506]

[TR]

[TD=width: 248]Conductor[/TD]

[TD=width: 248]Heavy OHFC continuous cast copper[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Insulation:[/TD]

[TD]Polyethylene[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Shielding:[/TD]

[TD]Dual-shields[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Impedance[/TD]

[TD]90ohms[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Connectors[/TD]

[TD]iFi ‘FINAL’ USB connectors[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Lengths/Weights:[/TD]

[TD]0.5m/270g (0.595 lbs)

1.0m/290g (0.639 lbs)

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[ErikM]

I'm fortunate that I can use the solid connector with my Devialet. So I'm wondering in a typically neurotic audiophile fashion is there such a thing as a super high quality solid connector.. Some Mil-Spec, made of unobtainium adaptor?? Aluminum case, solid silver, wire kinda of thing ;-)

[fmak]

These adapters (at least all the ones I have tested) do not connect the shields from one side to the other. I personally don't see this as a problem since they do connect pin 4 ground wire and virtually every USB device--host port, DAC, etc. (including the REGEN) ties pin 4 ground to its jack shield. So while adaptor shields "float" when you test it unconnected, they don't soon as you plug it into something. I'll leave it to you and John and others to speculate if that is a good thing or not.

 

I pointed out in posts in AA (or may be even here) that connecting the shield to the send end

rather than connecting these both ends do affect sound quality. In this case, it is not whether the

shields are connected in adapters that matters, but whether usb cables should be made up that way,

and whether this can lead to poorer sound quality.

 

If I get time, I shall try this out as systematically as possible...

[Jim Smith]

All 300 REGEN units for August delivery are now sold out. (Those are #1641 thru #1914 and they will ship throughout August.)

 

Orders placed now, starting with #1915, will ship the first week of September.

 

In the morning and on Monday the last 60 (of 300) July REGENs go out, and that finally covers everyone who was promised for July (up to order #1640). Whew!

 

I am trying to get out in front of this wave, hopefully to the point where we can actually ship from stock the same week the orders are placed. To that end, September's build is for 500 units. That should finally get us caught up and with on-the-shelf stock. But who knows, maybe a magazine review will appear and another wave will come. Really crazy.

 

Thanks,

Alex C.

 

Alex,

 

My Quarter Notes newsletter for 7,000 subscribers comes out shortly.

 

In it, among other topics, I discuss my REGEN amber.

 

For now, I can only say that it could adversely affect your spare time.

 

Best,

 

Jim

[Superdad]

My Quarter Notes newsletter for 7,000 subscribers comes out shortly.

 

In it, among other topics, I discuss my REGEN amber.

 

 

Wow, thanks Jim! Please do send me a copy.

And BTW, it is no longer necessary to append the UBB REGEN name with "amber." 97 of the first 98 "green" users have upgraded, and the installed base is now well over 700. It's all amber!

[YashN]

The correct geometry would be an actual shield around the other wires. But at least having a wire connecting the shields of the two connectors makes an attempt at properly preserving the impedances.

 

So boiled down to the basics,

 

in a CABLE:

shields are connected end to end

ground wire is connected end to end

shield and ground wire are not connected in the cable

 

In a BOX:

shields connected to chassis

ground pin connected to chassis

 

Based on what I've read these past two days as I'm planning v4.x of my DIY USB cable, this is what we want, and I would add only that the specs (for USB 3 that I just saw) recommend a peeling back of at most 2.5mm of shielding when soldering at the connectors, and also that the shield do a good 360 degrees around the connector shell for proper EMI/RFI shielding, in essence a proper Faraday cage around the internal 4-wires.

 

It's actually a bit disheartening to see the very diverse and contradictory info from several manufacturers, but I think it might be because the requirements between USB 1, USB 2 and USB 3 have changed a lot.

[YashN]

Regards the adapters: That's the thing. They DON'T connect the shield from one side to the other. Once you plug one into anything (even just on one side), then you can get continuity between the shields because as we have both said, the device connects shield to pin 4--generally right at the jack.

 

Instant ground loop if the various chassis aren't equipotential?

[YashN]

I pointed out in posts in AA (or may be even here) that connecting the shield to the send end

rather than connecting these both ends do affect sound quality. In this case, it is not whether the

shields are connected in adapters that matters, but whether usb cables should be made up that way,

and whether this can lead to poorer sound quality.

 

If I get time, I shall try this out as systematically as possible...

 

That's going to be thoroughly interesting, fmak, I'm on my first iteration of my short USB cable myself, so will follow with interest and add a brick to the house if I can.

[kurb1980]

I got my REGEN about 3 days ago I initially plugged it in to my HDplex 9v which was powering my iDSD Micro. I found that the REGEN got very warm to the touch. The music sounded good right off the bat besting the iUSB in clarity and tightening of the bass presentation. I got curious so I decided to use the 5v output of the HDplex and run the iDSD Micro off battery power and bingo the SQ went up to another level. I didn't think it would get any better than previously with the 9v but I got worried that REGEN would overheat while powering the iDSD. I know the REGEN can handle it but I the SQ was different when powering the iDSD vs battery power.

[HumanMedia]

It's an average give away cable; a little aggressive compared to better cables. Does have some clarity

but it's not a serious higher end audio component.

 

Are wires getting crossed here (pun not intended)?

 

fmak are you referring to to the blue iFi cable or the Regen supplied cable as being a cheap throw away?

 

And I know that iFi went to great lengths to insure 90ohm impedance in the Gemini and split cable. They even rejected the first batch of the split cable which ended up in Chinese stores before the official release.

 

So the small blue cable wasn't made to higher standards and is a throw away?

Even if so is it still better than all other short premade cables?

[kurb1980]

Are wires getting crossed here (pun not intended)?

 

fmak are you referring to to the blue iFi cable or the Regen supplied cable as being a cheap throw away?

 

And I know that iFi went to great lengths to insure 90ohm impedance in the Gemini and split cable. They even rejected the first batch of the split cable which ended up in Chinese stores before the official release.

 

So the small blue cable wasn't made to higher standards and is a throw away?

Even if so is it still better than all other short premade cables?

 

I use and have the Gemini + Mercury along with the "blue cables" and I'm using the stock blue cables "which are USB3" and they sound just as good if not better than the Gemini + Mercury combo with the iUSB. But in my opinion my the REGEN bests the iUSB with iDSD's stock cables.

[tims]

Do you any photo's of your DIY USB cable or perhaps a guide on how to build one? Thanks

 

Based on what I've read these past two days as I'm planning v4.x of my DIY USB cable, this is what we want, and I would add only that the specs (for USB 3 that I just saw) recommend a peeling back of at most 2.5mm of shielding when soldering at the connectors, and also that the shield do a good 360 degrees around the connector shell for proper EMI/RFI shielding, in essence a proper Faraday cage around the internal 4-wires.

 

It's actually a bit disheartening to see the very diverse and contradictory info from several manufacturers, but I think it might be because the requirements between USB 1, USB 2 and USB 3 have changed a lot.

[YashN]

Do you any photo's of your DIY USB cable or perhaps a guide on how to build one? Thanks

 

That was hard to find again, but yes, I have posted a description here in post 640 in the USB Cable comparisons thread. The posts before and after may provide additional helpful info.

 

There is some info on my blog too, but I am fairly certain there is a much better step-by-step and in depth description somewhere here.

[YashN]

There is some info on my blog too, but I am fairly certain there is a much better step-by-step and in depth description somewhere here.

 

Moving back up the thread, manually, it seems post 518 is what we were looking for.

 

And the blog entry with some recent listening impressions are here:

Reviving my DIY USB cable and finding Wow! again

[Morten]

Hallo, I have asked before but now I can see that the issue about the short USB cables have been opened again...

 

Have any one any experience with this one?

 

best USB cable, USB cable, USBcable, USB, cable - AQVOX Audio Devices

 

Kind regards Morten

[lmitche]

That was hard to find again, but yes, I have posted a description here in post 640 in the USB Cable comparisons thread. The posts before and after may provide additional helpful info.

 

There is some info on my blog too, but I am fairly certain there is a much better step-by-step and in depth description somewhere here.

 

This week I acquired a .7 meter Supra cable and placed it between the green and amber REGEN. This replaced the handmade 8 inch 3 wire USB cable made with BELDEN star quad which uses the shield as ground. The same hard adapter, with the 5v pin removed, continues to connect the amber REGEN to the DAC. John wasn't kidding, the Supra gave me a nice bump in SQ equivalent to a 1/4 - 1/3 of a REGEN improvement. Very nice!

 

Just for grins, I replaced the hard adapter used to connect my SMS-100 to the green REGEN with the now redundant DIY cable.

 

This is like adding another full REGEN. My DAC, an Auralic Vega, has finally stopped it's habit of making one or two drop outs when switching between tracks of various resolution in it's fastest USB sampling (EXACT) mode. Music has reached a new level of "coherence" across the image. New details have been revealed in that "time to listen to the whole music collection again kind of way. Like most of the best USB tweaks, there is a perception of a volume increase.

 

Why was the hard adapter such a bottleneck? The BELDEN cable has a nominal impedance of 40 ohms. Is this the difference?

 

Anyway, since the thread is back to discussing hard adapters, I thought it best to share this latest CA weirdness.

 

Larry

[sligolad]

Interesting that this discussion has kicked off since I have removed the short solid AB adapter supplied on my setup for the past week.

The reason I went down this road is that I was feeling like I was lacking a bit of heft/body/weight from my listening experience so I started experimenting with different configurations.

 

I tried the Short AB adapter on the USB out of the Audio PC and put the 1.2 mtr. PPA Red USB going from the Regen to the DAC and the Audio PC could not see the DAC which is what I was seeing on initial install, so I got to thinking that the output from the Regen is very sensitive to whatever you put ahead of it to the DAC.

 

I also had a short Blue iUSB cable from purchases some time back of the original iUSB 5v units and I stuck this in in place of the short solid AB connector between the Regen and the DAC and instantly heard the weight and Body I felt I had been missing.

 

Straight away I went and ordered 2 of the 0.7mtr Supra cables and I am now running with a Supra between the Regen and the DAC, to be honest so far everything sounds as good as when I put in the Blue iUSB cable but maybe there is a little more body but I will need more time to let it settle in.

 

For me there is no going back to the short solid AB connector.

Cheers, Pearse.

[Dyson]

To be clear, does the iFi blue USB cable just work better than any other short cable?

 

Or does the iFi also work better, in your system, than the supplied solid USB connector?

 

Or are you using a cable only because the solid USB connector does not fit in your space?

 

I haven't any solid adapter with me right now, I will compare again next week and let you know what I hear.

[steklo]

Straight away I went and ordered 2 of the 0.7mtr Supra cables and I am now running with a Supra between the Regen and the DAC, to be honest so far everything sounds as good as when I put in the Blue iUSB cable but maybe there is a little more body but I will need more time to let it settle in.

 

For me there is no going back to the short solid AB connector.

Cheers, Pearse.

 

I asked Supra about making shorter USB cables yesterday and after I explained why, telling them about the very positive experiences made by a lot of us with Supra and Regen, guiding them to the Regen threads on CA and thus showing that we are a lot of potential customers crazy enough for such a product they promised to discuss it when their stuff is back from their summer vacations.

[highstream]

I have both the TotalDac D-1 and the Regen. They work GREAT together. The Regen added to the ToatlDac D-1 USB makes great sounding music. They work independently. The Regen alone makes its own worthwhile improvement.

I hope that helps you.

 

Which end do you have the TD1 on? To what degree the TD1 box and the Regen address different issues?

 

I use a Kora LPS to supply 5v to a JCAT USB card. Is that sufficient for the Regen?