Article: Improve Your Audio System - Tonight!

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[botrytis]

When you said tabloid, I thought it would be 🍺 or a Cannabis 🚬 . Silly me....

[JR_Audio]

Hi Chris. This is my strong opinion too. CU in Munich? All the best. Juergen

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, JR_Audio said:

Hi Chris. This is my strong opinion too. CU in Munich? All the best. Juergen

I will absolutely be in Munich. Can’t wait to see you!

[firedog]

Couldn't agree more. Just spent a week working on my new setup. Measured and setup correction myself with Audiolense. Not bad. Definitely better than what I started with. 

 

Then sent my measurements to Mitch Barnett at Accurate Sound.

He looked at my measurements, saw something odd, and I measured again, getting  better measurements as a result of his expertise. He then sent me 3 filters - one each day for 3 days. The first was good, the second was better, and the third was great!

This system is now locked in - room effects gone and the sound is clear and very alive sounding.

 

Mitch is easy to work with and will work with you to get a result you are happy with. 

 

The expense involved is a tiny fraction of what I spent on the hardware. It's without a doubt the best bang for the buck in audiophilia. If you aren't doing this you aren't getting all  you paid for with your system and not enjoying the music as much as you could.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, firedog said:

Couldn't agree more. Just spent a week working on my new setup. Measured and setup correction myself with Audiolense. Not bad. Definitely better than what I started with. 

 

Then sent my measurements to Mitch Barnett at Accurate Sound.

He looked at my measurements, saw something odd, and I measured again, getting  better measurements as a result of his expertise. He then sent me 3 filters - one each day for 3 days. The first was good, the second was better, and the third was great!

This system is now locked in - room effects gone and the sound is clear and very alive sounding.

 

Mitch is easy to work with and will work with you to get a result you are happy with. 

 

The expense involved is a tiny fraction of what I spent on the hardware. It's without a doubt the best bang for the buck in audiophilia. If you aren't doing this you aren't getting all  you paid for with your system and not enjoying the music as much as you could.

 

Your comments gave me happy goosebumps. That has been my experience exactly!

[AudioDoctor]

Given that I am temporarily going to be moving into a smaller room which will become my home office / music listening space, this article and others on this topic have piqued my interest as something that can help with the problems of bookshelf speakers on a desktop. My question is this. How do I get the room as good as it can get and then, how do I get the measurements?

[DuckToller]

Jason, @AudioDoctor

Are you listening nearfield on your office desk?

Or with a distance in your Eames lounge chair?

Celebrate a sunny Labor Day, Tom

[DuckToller]

3 hours ago, firedog said:

Couldn't agree more. Just spent a week working on my new setup. Measured and setup correction myself with Audiolense. Not bad. Definitely better than what I started with. 

 

Then sent my measurements to Mitch Barnett at Accurate Sound.

He looked at my measurements, saw something odd, and I measured again, getting  better measurements as a result of his expertise. He then sent me 3 filters - one each day for 3 days. The first was good, the second was better, and the third was great!

This system is now locked in - room effects gone and the sound is clear and very alive sounding.

 

Mitch is easy to work with and will work with you to get a result you are happy with. 

 

The expense involved is a tiny fraction of what I spent on the hardware. It's without a doubt the best bang for the buck in audiophilia. If you aren't doing this you aren't getting all  you paid for with your system and not enjoying the music as much as you could.

 

Which microphone did you use?

[daverich4]

I have Mitch’s filters for my Focal Utopia 2022’s and have been happy with the results. I’ve used HAF corrections in my main system for many years but based on the success of the headphone filters it might be time to try his service with my stereo.

[AudioDoctor]

14 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

Jason, @AudioDoctor

Are you listening nearfield on your office desk?

Or with a distance in your Eames lounge chair?

Celebrate a sunny Labor Day, Tom

 

It will be nearfield.

[DuckToller]

20 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

It will be nearfield.

Fellow German Julian did a Video for this

But you can always ask @mitchco

😉

[Deyorew]

You know I recently bought a $400 Sony home theater receiver that was on sale for a rather modest home theater room. The room previously sounded like junk. I was blown away at what that Sony room correction processing power brought.

 

not only am I a purest turned believer I will take it further and say the days of Wilson speakers and stacks of DCS being required for out of this world sound are numbered.

 

how long will it be before a modest $10,000 speaker and amp combo makes a $100,000 system completely negated due to processing? I can’t wait.

[Meridimac]

Thierry at homeaudiofidelity.com (HAF) also offers crosstalk cancellation versions of his excellent room correction filters, which are derived from your physical listening position measurements along with sweep file recordings using a calibrated mic. You can buy just the rc FIRs, pay a little more for additional filters with basic xtalk added (which is what I use), or opt for more customization to account for the shape of your head.

 

I’ve been using HAF since 2018 in both a 7.1 theater and stereo setup, updating measurements (and filters) several times when changing speakers or significant acoustic elements/treatments. My most recent set was installed for new speakers a month ago -and this guy’s work just gets better and better IMHO. Highly recommended.

 

Now that the hobby is abuzz about BACCH and XTC, the term “room correction” should also embrace efforts to deal with crosstalk distortion.

[mitchco]

@Meridimac I feel Thierry's plugins are underrated. I really like what Room Shaper does to reduce the low frequency decay time in rooms. I haven't tried X-talk Shaper yet, but I know my friend @Archimago has a good review of it.

 

I tried uBACCH and if I set up my speakers 25 inches apart and sit 6 feet back, (as per Arch's article in Part III), the soundstage is the size of my front wall. Really incredible effect.  But that is not a practical setup (for me). Moving back to an equilateral triangle, the effect is pretty much neutralized. Further disappointed by the unreasonable price tag.

 

I am hoping to give X-talk Shaper a trial and plugin it into HLHost and shoot a video on how one can easily add plugins to Roon or Qobuz or other music sources that do not support the plugin model. Video will be for both Mac and Windows.

[mitchco]

9 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

My question is this. How do I get the room as good as it can get and then, how do I get the measurements?

For two channel measurements, REW does a great job of getting the measurements. I use a slightly different method to avoid the two clock issue of trying to sync a record stream (UMIK-1 USB ADC with it's own clock) with the playback stream (DAC with its own clock). It's not just clock drift but the random start and stop times of each stream that never shall meet.

 

The idea is to put REW in wait mode and then play a "sweep" file that is a prerecorded .wav file one plays in the music player, just like any music file. The left and right sweep files contain a start "chirp" that tells REW when to start recording. Then the 20 Hz to 20 kHz sweep plays, followed by a stop chirp, which stops REW from recording further. This approach eliminates any timing issues using 2 clocks. 

 

I made a couple of "rough" videos on how to to this on Mac and on Windows using these sweep files. Initially, go easy on the volume until all connections are sorted and the process is repeatable. Then turn up the volume to your regular listening level and then take the left and right measurements. Send me the REW .mdat measurement file so I can evaluate your room. That's step 1. 

[firedog]

8 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Which microphone did you use?

"just" the UMK-1 from mini-DSP

I used to have an expensive pro measurement microphone.

It needed a preamp.

This is USB based and much easier to use.

I can't compare results, as I sold the expensive mic.

But I'm very happy with the results with the inexpensive mic.

Seems to me the key is a decent mic with an individual calibration file, and not a generic one.

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, firedog said:

"just" the UMK-1 from mini-DSP

I used to have an expensive pro measurement microphone.

It needed a preamp.

This is USB based and much easier to use.

I can't compare results, as I sold the expensive mic.

But I'm very happy with the results with the inexpensive mic.

Seems to me the key is a decent mic with an individual calibration file, and not a generic one.

Oh that's good, that you like your outcome and that you achieved it with the Umik-1.

I do my measurements with the 2nd gen Umik-1, too. Just looking for assurance 😉

[Meridimac]

7 hours ago, mitchco said:

 

I tried uBACCH and if I set up my speakers 25 inches apart and sit 6 feet back, (as per Arch's article in Part III), the soundstage is the size of my front wall. Really incredible effect.  But that is not a practical setup (for me). Moving back to an equilateral triangle, the effect is pretty much neutralized. Further disappointed by the unreasonable price tag.

I demoed BACCH4Mac last year, but decided against keeping it past the trial period because it was expensive, complicated to set up, and required a USB signal to run through my old laptop if I wouldn’t also buy a Mac Mini. -All too much for me at the time even though the system gave a surprising soundstage improvement within a very narrow listening position. I liked the effect for most recordings very much but, like you, I am back to the classic 60 degree triangle.

 

HAF xtalk filtering in my standard setup is more general “reduction” for a broad sweet spot where you can sit any way you want, rather than total “cancellation” within a rigid, narrow space, -unless you pay $$ Theoretica for a head-tracking system.

 

I also use the miniDSP USB microphone.

[botrytis]

1 hour ago, Meridimac said:

I demoed BACCH4Mac last year, but decided against keeping it past the trial period because it was expensive, complicated to set up, and required a USB signal to run through my old laptop if I wouldn’t also buy a Mac Mini. -All too much for me at the time even though the system gave a surprising soundstage improvement within a very narrow listening position. I liked the effect for most recordings very much but, like you, I am back to the classic 60 degree triangle.

 

HAF xtalk filtering in my standard setup is more general “reduction” for a broad sweet spot where you can sit any way you want, rather than total “cancellation” within a rigid, narrow space, -unless you pay $$ Theoretica for a head-tracking system.

 

I also use the miniDSP USB microphone.

 

My issue with the BACCH software it was very specific for a very small, sweet spot, like listening to a pair of ESL 57 speakers. Get out of the zone even a small amount, it didn't sound good. Maybe that is just me. Also, the expense, as it cost more than my whole system does. 

 

I get why people like it. Just not for me. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm really trying to keep an open mind about BACCH and crosstalk cancelation. Currently it isn't for me, but I'm really happy to hear guys like @JoeWhip, who has spent quite a bit of time with it recently, tell me they like it and think there's something there. 

 

Options are always good. 

[PYP]

11 hours ago, mitchco said:

I am hoping to give X-talk Shaper a trial and plugin it into HLHost and shoot a video on how one can easily add plugins to Roon or Qobuz or other music sources that do not support the plugin model. Video will be for both Mac and Windows.

If my room works well with my speakers (perhaps open floor plan, cathedral ceiling and asymmetric placement help?) and improving timbre/tone is my goal rather than increased soundstage per se, which tools/software do you recommend?

[mitchco]

Hi @PYP I would recommend taking acoustic measurements of your speakers in your room at the listening position. Then by looking at the frequency response we can understand the tone/timbre of your system and what areas may need adjusting via DSP/DRC tools. 

 

If you have a measurement mic and can follow one of the measurement procedures below, please send me the measurements and I can take a look. Thanks.

 

12 hours ago, mitchco said:

For two channel measurements, REW does a great job of getting the measurements. I use a slightly different method to avoid the two clock issue of trying to sync a record stream (UMIK-1 USB ADC with it's own clock) with the playback stream (DAC with its own clock). It's not just clock drift but the random start and stop times of each stream that never shall meet.

 

The idea is to put REW in wait mode and then play a "sweep" file that is a prerecorded .wav file one plays in the music player, just like any music file. The left and right sweep files contain a start "chirp" that tells REW when to start recording. Then the 20 Hz to 20 kHz sweep plays, followed by a stop chirp, which stops REW from recording further. This approach eliminates any timing issues using 2 clocks. 

 

I made a couple of "rough" videos on how to to this on Mac and on Windows using these sweep files. Initially, go easy on the volume until all connections are sorted and the process is repeatable. Then turn up the volume to your regular listening level and then take the left and right measurements. Send me the REW .mdat measurement file so I can evaluate your room. That's step 1. 

 

[Wine Doctor]

My system includes a Trinnov Altitude 16, which seems to offer very high quality room connection for immersive audio system (Wilson Audio Alex V and other Wilson Audio speakers, combined with D'Agastino amps).  How do you compare the sound quality for the Accurate Sound set-up versus the Trinnov Altitude 16?

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Wine Doctor said:

My system includes a Trinnov Altitude 16, which seems to offer very high quality room connection for immersive audio system (Wilson Audio Alex V and other Wilson Audio speakers, combined with D'Agastino amps).  How do you compare the sound quality for the Accurate Sound set-up versus the Trinnov Altitude 16?

Trinnov is likely the best processor for room correction but still can’t compete with state of the art solutions. I’ve recommended Trinnov to many people because it’s very easy and very good. 
 

I know it has been discussed around here before, with some actual facts and graphs, but I can’t find it while I’m on the go at the moment.