Roon 2.0

[mourip]

Hi,

 

I have been using Roon for several years. Combined with integrated Qobuz it has really opened up my musical world. The most recent version 1.8 has been rock solid for me. I run the Core on Windows Server 2019 and the endpoint on a NUC running Piero's great Audiolinux.

 

They just released version 2.0 of their OS. Evidently it is mainly to enable users to get to their own music when remote from their home network. It is called ARC and has already been mentioned here.

 

I am not really interested in ARC but very interested in being able to survive the update with my server and library intact. If you go to the Roon Community forums it it as bit like being at the last day of Pompei, with people screaming and running through the streets while ash and rocks rain down. Not a pretty sight.

 

I decided to wait a bit until they remove the bodies and sweep the streets but am wondering if anyone here has already successfully updating.

 

Thanks for any input from those who have gone boldly!

[Mercman]

I have been listening to the early access version of 2.0.  I have strongly suggested that my friends update to 2.0 unless they have old versions of Windows or OSX. Version 2.0 of Roon is just that good!

[mourip]

Thanks a lot. 

 

If you go to Roon Community you would think we were having a mass extinction event!

 

I think that most issues were either with ARC or older servers though...

[Mercman]

Remember, Roon has more than 100.000 users. What goes on at the Roon site does not represent the majority of users or we all would be running iTunes like in the "old days". 🤣

[Marco Klobas]

I have never seen such a flood of posts on Roon's Community forum like with the 2.0 release.

 

I use RSS: I see literally hundreds of new threads a day addressing in one way or another the new release and, more specifically, ARC.

 

Even Apple's new iPhone releases make less traffic...

[Mercman]

Have you actually read the comments posted at Roon?

 

Many could have been answered if the posters just took the time to read the release notes.

 

I’m not saying that some folks aren’t having legitimate issues. But to suggest that the sky is falling is a bit too much.

[Marco Klobas]

I read just a few threads.

 

I even replied in two of them (double NAT related issues, since I have a double NAT setup in my home too) trying to give help. So far I didn't get any further feedback from the open posters.

 

I feel that the majority of complaining users have little knowledge of networking and are easily panicking. I'm absolutely not a network engineer and yet I had ARC working within seconds even with my double NAT network. I admit that I'm familiar with the port forwarding concept, though.

 

I agree: a lot of users just start new threads without making a little research in advance.

[ericuco]

1 hour ago, Marco Klobas said:

I agree: a lot of users just start new threads without making a little research in advance.

I find this happens a lot here on AS as well. Several members have bought DAC’s that don’t support Linux-based computers then start threads trying to figure out why they don’t work or how to workaround the issue. If they had just read the product documentation prior to purchasing the DAC it would save a bunch of heartache. Same with HQPlayer, users can’t figure out how it works without reading the documentation.

 

More on topic, I have upgraded to Roon 2.0 without issue on my Linux server and iPad remote. I don’t use ARC but did find that there was a Roon entry in the UPnP section of my router. I have since turned off UPnP based on recommendations here on AS.

[botrytis]

Which DAC's don't support Linux? Can you name them?

 

Linux oft time doesn't need drivers.

[ericuco]

25 minutes ago, botrytis said:

Which DAC's don't support Linux? Can you name them?

 

Linux oft time doesn't need drivers.

 

The original T+A DAC8 DSD is one. The T+A website even had a section on it and a separate document stated:

 

"Linux is not officially supported by T+A for the use with our D/A converter DAC 8 DSD.
Nevertheless it is possible to use the DAC 8 DSD as a USB D/A converter with Linux PCs."

 

The NuPrime IDA-8 is another.

 

That said, these would generally work with Linux but limited to DoP when the user wanted to use "native" DSD in HQP.

 

Let's get back to the topic at hand.

[botrytis]

That is all I wanted to know - thanks. I haven't seen one and that is why I am asking.

[firedog]

Roon now has a procedure for sticking with 1.8 or downgrading from 2.0 to 1.8. This is something they didn't do before. See the forum.

 

2.0 seems to be much the same as 1.8, with ARC being the big feature.

 

Unfortunately, I can't get ARC to work in  my setup so far. Hope they figure it out. 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, botrytis said:

Which DAC's don't support Linux? Can you name them?

 

Linux oft time doesn't need drivers.

 

exaSound is one that kind of works and doesn't. It works perfectly fine if you use their networked ones tough. But the USB connected ones are not that easy.

 

[botrytis]

TY.

[BCRich]

Anyone with a Euphony Summus Server get 2.0 working? Robert at Euphony said no issues on his end, on both V3 and V4.

Appreciate the feedback.

Thanks…..Mike

[Mauidj7]

@MercmanI don't know about the sky is falling. Roon is not the easiest thing to set up in many instances and lots of folk are not IT experts. They are entitled to ask for help or clarity when a brand new version is released. Help is often not received or worse, they are put down by the know it all community.
I think one of the biggest issues this time, is that it no longer works if you have no internet connection. Even with your own locally stored music! This was not divulged in any releases and caught many people off guard. I know it may be irrelevant for most but many people have bad internet connections on a regular basis. Now we are shut out of our own music when it goes down. This is why there is now a 1.8 Legacy version that will receive updates until the end of the year, Then you are SOOL! If you saw some of the replies to these customer posts from their COO of all people, you wold understand why the screaming is so loud. Thanks Roon🤬 

[Mercman]

4 hours ago, Mauidj7 said:

@MercmanI don't know about the sky is falling. Roon is not the easiest thing to set up in many instances and lots of folk are not IT experts. They are entitled to ask for help or clarity when a brand new version is released. Help is often not received or worse, they are put down by the know it all community.
I think one of the biggest issues this time, is that it no longer works if you have no internet connection. Even with your own locally stored music! This was not divulged in any releases and caught many people off guard. I know it may be irrelevant for most but many people have bad internet connections on a regular basis. Now we are shut out of our own music when it goes down. This is why there is now a 1.8 Legacy version that will receive updates until the end of the year, Then you are SOOL! If you saw some of the replies to these customer posts from their COO of all people, you wold understand why the screaming is so loud. Thanks Roon🤬 

 I’m sorry that the new version of Roon is a big disappointment for you. I just don’t see the “screaming” from folks as being a catastrophe for Roon after checking out the site this evening. I guess I’m missing this outcry.

 

I also have little IT knowledge, but did receive help and advice from other Roon users that helped me to get things working. 
 

Obviously, my comments are worthless to folks like yourself that don’t have good internet service. 
 

I understand your frustration with this new release.

 

 

 

 

[Mauidj7]

On 9/22/2022 at 8:53 PM, Mercman said:

 I’m sorry that the new version of Roon is a big disappointment for you. I just don’t see the “screaming” from folks as being a catastrophe for Roon after checking out the site this evening. I guess I’m missing this outcry.

 

I also have little IT knowledge, but did receive help and advice from other Roon users that helped me to get things working. 
 

Obviously, my comments are worthless to folks like yourself that don’t have good internet service. 
 

I understand your frustration with this new release.

 

 

 

 

Thank you Steve.

I can see how this does not affect the vast majority of their user base so I guess they have weighed up the pros and cons of upsetting a few for the benefit of their new model. It was apparently done to improve the database and searches...or something like that.
Ironically when I signed up as a lifer the question that convinced me to do so was..."What if you go out of business...can I still use Roon and access MY music?" Answer..Definitely YES!!!!!
So now they are totally going back on this promise. If or when they go out of business no one will be able to get service with this new system. I thinks its disgusting behavior and they probably could find themselves in hot water if people wanted to push.

I've invested tens of thousand of dollars in my Roon streaming equipment and this is a big blow. Fortunately I can move to Minimserver or something else. Sure glad I didn't buy a Nucleus ;-)

Such a shame as its a pretty decent product (could even be great if they spent more time fixing issues rather than bringing a bunch of new and unnecessary stuff to the platform) but the company and their lack of real customer service are not so great IMO.

TG for my SACD's and vinyl. Still the best :-)

[musicjunkie917]

9 minutes ago, Mauidj7 said:

Thank you Steve.

I can see how this does not affect the vast majority of their user base so I guess they have weighed up the pros and cons of upsetting a few for the benefit of their new model. It was apparently done to improve the database and searches...or something like that.
Ironically when I signed up as a lifer the question that convinced me to do so was..."What if you go out of business...can I still use Roon and access MY music?" Answer..Definitely YES!!!!!
So now they are totally going back on this promise. If or when they go out of business no one will be able to get service with this new system. I thinks its disgusting behavior and they probably could find themselves in hot water if people wanted to push.

I've invested tens of thousand of dollars in my Roon streaming equipment and this is a big blow. Fortunately I can move to Minimserver or something else. Sure glad I didn't buy a Nucleus ;-)

Such a shame as its a pretty decent product (could even be great if they spent more time fixing issues rather than bringing a bunch of new and unnecessary stuff to the platform) but the company and their lack of real customer service are not so great IMO.

TG for my SACD's and vinyl. Still the best :-)

 

Please. Enough with the hyperbole!! The sky is not falling....

 

If Roon goes out of business, they will put out one last release that does not require online access to their servers. So no, they are not going back on that promise. What they have done with this last release is stupid in my mind. Requiring Internet access at all times is crazy.

[botrytis]

Volumio also seems to require internet access at all times. I am thinking about trying Daphile again and it is free. 

[Mauidj7]

4 hours ago, musicjunkie917 said:

 

Please. Enough with the hyperbole!! The sky is not falling....

 

If Roon goes out of business, they will put out one last release that does not require online access to their servers. So no, they are not going back on that promise. What they have done with this last release is stupid in my mind. Requiring Internet access at all times is crazy.

FYI......I was the one who said the sky is not falling. Read my first post please.

That quoted comment was the answer they gave in reply to the going out of business question posed years ago. Have you asked that question today? Does it still apply and if so how, given that their structure is now 100% cloud based? Can they do that, and if they can, why not now? I'm open to being corrected. All I know is that right now with 2.0 if the internet goes so does my Roon based music...hyperbole or not.

 

 

[stefano_mbp]

8 hours ago, Mauidj7 said:

Thank you Steve.

I can see how this does not affect the vast majority of their user base so I guess they have weighed up the pros and cons of upsetting a few for the benefit of their new model. It was apparently done to improve the database and searches...or something like that.
Ironically when I signed up as a lifer the question that convinced me to do so was..."What if you go out of business...can I still use Roon and access MY music?" Answer..Definitely YES!!!!!
So now they are totally going back on this promise. If or when they go out of business no one will be able to get service with this new system. I thinks its disgusting behavior and they probably could find themselves in hot water if people wanted to push.

I've invested tens of thousand of dollars in my Roon streaming equipment and this is a big blow. Fortunately I can move to Minimserver or something else. Sure glad I didn't buy a Nucleus ;-)

Such a shame as its a pretty decent product (could even be great if they spent more time fixing issues rather than bringing a bunch of new and unnecessary stuff to the platform) but the company and their lack of real customer service are not so great IMO.

TG for my SACD's and vinyl. Still the best :-)

The point is that you’re buying a license to use their services and you’re not buying their sw, therefore should they go out of business you cannot use their services anymore

[katools]

With Roon 2.0 mandating an active internet connection to listen to ANY music including that stored locally and their persistent failure to address architectural and functional shortcomings:

• no true user profiles
• no distinct user libraries
• inability to properly deal with box sets
• inflexible genres
• radio/dj relying on poor or inconsistently assigned genres & ignoring unidentified albums
• inability to assign track genres
• inability to assign scores to albums and/or tracks
• inability to point other users to an artist, album or track on Spotify you think they may enjoy
• inability to create community with users having similar tastes
• inability to copy/paste any text into clipboard
• inability to add revews where there are none or to replace reviews with your own or another sourced elsewhere
• inability to disable reviews
• no dynamic playlists
• no Deezer, Spotify, Apple or Amazon music interface
• forced library rescan every time you restart Roon
• no support for WOL
• no Web client
• no native Linux client
• no support for Wavpack

As much as their underlying playback engine is excellent, the user experience is way too limiting (and they clearly don't care to enhance that).  Couple that with the notion that you will not be able to listen to music if you have issues getting online and their stated intent is to further dumb down local functionality in favour of shifting it to the the cloud and it's abundantly clear Roon will not be able to serve my medium or longer term needs.  I feel like the time is now to to look for an alternative.

 

It's a really pity the open source community has developed 100's of players/ library managers, reinventing the wheel over and over.  Imagine what could be achieved if a pool of motivated music lovers that happen to be developers combined their resources in creating an open source replacement leveraging Musicbrainz & Discogs along with user tags/edits.  I would gladly donate cash to such an endeavor.

[StreamFidelity]

To bring in positive thoughts, check out this thread: 

 

Where in the world have you taken ARC? Let us know here!

 

Wonderful pictures from the road listening to music via ARC. I'll be doing that soon too. 👍

[botrytis]

I can tell you there are places in the US that cell phones have no connection at all. MANY places.