ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Based even only on sheer brilliance of its participants arguments, 

AS is the best audio forum by a really looong way.

It's 4am here in Europe, good night.

Good morning 😁

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, plissken said:

 

I'm not ridiculing you. If you believe your points that support $14k to $40k devices that reproduce pedestrian 20Hz to 20Khz then that is what you believe.

 

My red herring part comes into what you are saying about products that don't come with that price tag. That is support, build quality, longevity. Sorry I just don't accept that based on my experience. It's routine to get 10-12 years out of sub $1K electronics. My Samsung Plasma is going on 11 years old and showing no problems. My Sanyo PLV Z60 PJ is 11 years old and looks great with a bulb replacement. Both under the $1K mark.

 

Sorry that you read that as ridicule. I thought when I posted about the $499 DC-1 still going strong after 10 years that I answered that.

I should note that I do t mean a product still works for ten years. I mean new features are added for ten years. Plus, these companies will still fix the products decades after they are out of production. Audio Research has a million bucks worth of parts for old products. I like that and value not throwing away a product because it breaks. 
 

My Samsung Frame TV lasted 2 years. Samsung said sorry. 🙂

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

 

You're still talking about DACs and I said the site has moved well past and onto things that produce sound (speakers and headphones) and the things that drive those (amps).

 

You are right you shouldn't care about DACs ! DACs are solved by the competent Engineers - even by Schiit Audio now (they are sending DACs to Amir to measure and doing well). 

 

Not sure why you single out Chinese but you're not reading what I wrote before or conveniently ignoring - RME engineer is there and product measured superbly, Chord Qutest measured superbly. 

 

Benchmark DAC, superb.

 

Universal Audio's top end pro audio interface measured state of the art.

 

Please read my examples carefully and no need to bring Chinese into it? Even though many of them have solved the DAC performance thing too.

 

The funniest thing with the Schiit example is that the Engineers of Schiit products listened and changed their engineering and now send gear to Amir. But the consumers are still stuck in their mindset. 

 

i find that comical

 

But move beyond DACs. And forget about the engineers being on the forum if that is distracting you.

 

KEF R3, Genelec monitors, KRK monitors, Neumann monitors, Sennheiser headphones, Dan Clarke headphones, Purifi based amps, Hypex based amps, THX based amps - all getting great measurements and recommendations.

 

The whinging about measurements has become silly when you look at the overall picture

 

Respectfully please don't bring up DACs again 😃

 

I think we have a major miscommunication issue. I don’t want to taint our other good forum conversations that are productive 🙂

 

I just don’t understand the appeal to authority, but I have a feeling you aren’t trying to do that even though that’s what I see. This, I’ll stop now and say that I’ll continue to enjoy our discussions on the Merging Anubis. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I'm hoping to make Munch show next year so maybe we can share a beer with Jussi and finally settle the technical debate once and for all and publish an AES journal LOL

Would love to meet!

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

So what happens when Amir posts APx555 measurements and the designer of the DAC (I hate still talking about DACs but seems I have to) posts his own APx555 measurement and they are different ?

 

Same key measurement gear (different overall setup probably) but different results?

 

Well this happens in the case of Chord Mojo.

 

It didn't change my opinion of my Chord Mojo at all. The designer shared his own APx555 measurements in this case. So it wasn't one persons word against another persons measurements. It was measurement based. Rob Watts of Chord is heavy into measurements and loves to tell the world he was one of the first in all of Europe to own the APx555...

 

The audience is left to decide what they want.

 

I wish there were more cases like this where manufacturers simply posted their own measurements. Then people can decide if Amir is simply measuring wrong. But there aren't enough of these examples. Maybe this is changing now (thanks to Amir).

 

Schiit Audio now post their own APx555 measurements on their website and send gear to Amir. I never thought I'd see that day.

 

Funnily enough, later Chord Qutest was measured as state of the art by Amir.

 

The professional thing to do is to measure something, send those measurements to the manufacturer, determine if there is a discrepancy between the measurements or an error, if something is wrong with the measurements  - fix it before publication, if two measurements are different- figure out why before publication, then publish. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

30 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Hi again

 

He already does that if manufacturer sends him gear...

Seems unreasonable to expect this if a general public consumer sends him gear or he purchases himself. 

 

I fully understand you want to defend a couple of your forum sponsors who have had products scrutinised by him (I own and enjoy their products too) but coming up with dated arguments like focusing on Chinese DACs and SINAD chart and that he should behave like a website that receives sponsorship and advertising money, is a bit of a stretch and unreasonable in my opinion. I assume this comes from your difficult position.

 

But others can read the arguments and decide for themselves.

 

I purely use ASR to see if a product does what the manufacturer themselves claim it does. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Why one would rather have no verification and just have marketing and reading other peoples subjective impressions, well I can't understand that... we've had many examples of manufacturers not delivering what they claim - not what somebody else claims.

 

To use SINAD as an example since everyone seems to be obsessed with this one number (manufactures typyically specify THD+N % btw, a common spec) if a manufacturer claims a SINAD of 98 dB and that's verified to be accurate, they are good in my book...  I am not obsessed with the ranking aspect. I am not obsessed with 115dB thresh-hold of hearing - I listen at 70-80dB max... Some fans of ASR seem to be obsessed with the rank. I'm not.

 

 

I don’t want to defend anyone. 
 

If someone is truly out to educate people and offer honest objective information, he would absolutely talk to the manufacturer. We’ve all seen what happens when he has screwed up the measurements and retracted them in 5pt text several days later. You can’t unring the bell. 
 

On the other hand, if some likes to feed his ego, publish gotcha style measurements, and revel in the schadenfreude cesspool that follows, then go ahead with publishing potentially inaccurate measurements that can be a disservice. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, botrytis said:

If anyone wants some suggestions of where to by unique teas, US people, just PM me. Chris already did and I will share the wealth, as it were.

+100

[The Computer Audiophile]

43 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

This is poor form - no question about it! Fully agree with you there. Rob H covers this kind of thing in the YouTube podcast link I shared.

 

He absolutely needs to improve the way in which he communicates , I've already mentioned this and agreed with someone else that said this.

 

I also don't trust any measurements before he got his APx555 and even his earliest when he got the machine.

 

I do trust them now - they correlate with the measurements of some of the biggest manufactures in on the planet (both pro audio and consumer audio... KEF, Genelec, Chord (Qutest), JBL, Revel, Neummann, Sennheiser, Universal Audio, RME, Motu, Focusrite).

 

That doesn't change the fact that I believe we absolutely need more 3rd party verifications to verify that manufacturers products are doing what they claim their product does.

 

I'm going to keep repeating this because I'm waiting for someone to reply that we don't need this, life is fine just believing all manufacturers claims because all manufacturers are truthful with their own specifications...

 

I've been a huge Stereophile fan for many years , just for John Atkinson's measurements. And Tyll at Innerfidelity. I don't bother going to Innerfidelity anymore. They've long promised measurements were coming back but nada. I'll give up my Stereophile subscription once JA stops.

 

 

I'm not a fan of this either by the way.

 

 

Yes but you obviously have to write that because your forum sponsors are reading this too. It wouldn't be a look good if you didn't stand up for them. It's a difficult position to be in, I get that.

 

 

 

I'm happy we found common ground :~)

 

In addition, I support everyone who wishes to verify a product does what the manufacturer claims. Everybody wins when this is done correctly. However, everybody loses if it's done incorrectly. 

 

Here's the deal with me not standing up for advertisers. I only do business with good people and absolutely none of them want me to stand up for them. They are all adults who wish to stand up for themselves. Also, advertising with me guarantees companies a spot to advertise and nothing else. Not a product review or me talking about them in the forum or me standing up for them. I don't blame you for thinking otherwise because it's common in some areas, but I couldn't sleep at night if I stood up for advertisers.

 

Often times I happen to know quite a bit about how an advertiser operates and about its products, such as dCS discussed in this thread, but this has zero to do with them paying to show a banner on AS. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Let's move the tea discussion here - 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, asdf1000 said:

 

I see Teresa has seen this thread (which was the main point - so that she knew Amir wasn't an Asian woman 😄).

 

I never intended it to be a pro vs anti-ASR discussion but it somehow ended up like that.

 

I'm happy for you to have the last word here and close the thread.

 

I'm pretty sure that if we were all sitting together enjoying a beverage of our choice, that the discussion would be much more enjoyable. It can be hard to discuss some stuff via keyboard :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

48 minutes ago, danadam said:

He is not bashing it, so he must be a fan of it? Ah, to live in such a black-and-white world, must be a nice thing.

I don't think that's what Charles was saying, but it seems to me that anyone shooting for objectivity and science based audio information would certainly be analyzing and publishing information about MQA. If not, there must be a reason. I don't know what that reason is, but I'm guessing it has to do with commerce and money. Just my guess, based solely on being a human being and understanding how life works. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, danadam said:

I don't know where the money is in that.

Think about his business, which is a major conflict of interest, and the possibilities of talking bad about MQA. You have to consider the big picture and long term relationships. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

You leveled this type of criticism at Archimago. I think if I turned on monetization on my YT videos for the $0.007 it would make me I'd get painted with the same brush. Is there anything more than a gut feeling you have on this?

I said everything in my post. 
 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

22 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Always a problem for people that like audiojewelery 

What’s the problem with audio jewelry? Not everyone has to like things for the reasons you like things. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@plissken think about this for a second. 
 

MQA has been a huge topic in HiFi. Every objective site has torn it to pieces. Subjective sites have loved it. 
 

Why wouldn’t an objective site that gets off on schadenfreude be all over it? 
 

If an objective site thinks it’s good, then everyone would love to see more info about it. If it’s bad, then tell the world. 
 

Something else is at play. If you don’t think so, you’re drinking the cool aide. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Chris

  Unless, I missed it at a quick look,   Hydrogen Audio also appears to be silent on this issue, so perhaps something else IS at play here ? If they have discussed it, it certainly isn't in the General area in the last several months.

 

Alex

That's not a HiFi site. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, sandyk said:

No, but as an Engineering site, there should at least be some mention of it in this attachment 

 

Um, OK. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, plissken said:

 

I have and my conclusions are it's how mature people effectively have a debate.

You lost me. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 That says it all.

What all does it say?

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, botrytis said:

A quote from the last page of that thread on Hydrogen Audio.....

 

"Chris ConMan needs the MQA money to feed his kids"

 

That is a mature comment? R I G H T ! ! !

Yep that’s me. One of the audio press who actually accepted the bribe. Not. 
 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, sandyk said:

You could associate quite a few Audio Reviewer  names,  and a few forums to that one ? 😉

 Why has a forum with Audio in it's name (Hydrogen Audio)  and has such a high % of qualified technical members been silent on this issue for 3 years ? MQA is one of the biggest technical advances (if you believe the hype) in recent years .

That’s a question for the members of that site. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

The market place will speak and I have faith in the market place. And I think that has been proven correct.

I really wish this was true. I don't know a single person in any marketplace who asked for HDCP copy protection and all the glorious issues that come along with every new version of HDMI. Yet, here we're are. Blu-ray encryption? Nobody asked for it, yet we have it. 

 

I'm a big supporter of letting markets decide, but with entertainment it's one sided. I can't record myself playing Kind of Blue, find a competing album called Kind of Blueish, or anything similar. If you want what labels offer, you have to accept what they want to give you. If that's MQA, then that's MQA. 

 

Keep in mind that the labels have a stake in MQA. If it succeeds, the labels make more money. How's that for everyone. Force a DRM-like solution, make people pay a tax to hear the "somewhat full" version, collect said tax that you forced upon them.

 

Seems like something a consumer friendly site should investigate. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I’m famous!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, JoshM said:

 

Shameful anti-coffee agenda. I expect better from you, Chris! ☕🤣

Ha!

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I’ve never been on the ASR Forum before

 

 

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

mmmm....not sure I’ll be going there again! 

My condolences for your choice of username.