Building a DIY Music Server

[Rovo]

will this not have an influence on the sound quality?

 

[Rovo]

with the Hammond chokes you will probably not notice 😉

[MarcelNL]

easy enough to add a switch with a bleed resistor and listen in open and closed position...I'm using a manual bleed resistor...the trouble is ease of use.

[Rovo]

I also use a manual bleed resistor. Quite easy when you are used to it. And always double check with the multi meter. 

[MarcelNL]

1 hour ago, Rovo said:

I also use a manual bleed resistor. Quite easy when you are used to it. And always double check with the multi meter. 

I love the crackle of making a connection when I forgot to bleed the caps every now and then...reminds me of the HUGE LPSU of the Le Monstre Amp many moons ago 

 

[Rovo]

aah, aah, living on the edge 😉

[Rovo]

In case people are interested in "squeezing" in the bigger chokes in a PC chassis, I managed to replace the two Hammond 159ZJ's with two Mundorf VN180-10's in my HQPLayer NAA Endpoint (with some modifications): 

 

The three caps on the right are a 22000uF and two 47000uF. Replacing these with a single 220000uF will save even more space. 

 

In case of more power/current hungry PC's where you would need the Mundorf VN300-10 instead of the Mundorf VN180-10, you better think twice (left the 180-10's, right the 300-10's): 

[Gavin1977]

Update on choke group buy: manufacturer is still very busy and not able to commit to new orders straight away.  Hopefully another update for you in the coming days, but unable to launch the formal group buy until then.

 

Thanks

[Downtheline]

Emile at Taiko posted about a 2 new switches he designed. Generation 5 will ship out soon, but costs 4800 euro. Today he showed a picture of the the gen 4 that will be significantly cheaper. Anybody interested? I am. He mentioned interest has been low. 

 

[MarcelNL]

I'm interested but no way that I'll replace my 2.5Gbit switch and Solarflare x2522 with Finisar 1475BTL and corning fiber for a 3+Keuro option without audtitioning some time this spring.

I plan to do a visit to Oldenzaal, easy enough for me...

 

With ultra high end audio (if that is not a weird name) it's exposure that sells, not messaging...at least with me.

I have pondered buying an extreme and be done tinkering, probably at close to the cost of my DIY path but the DIY is so much fun I'll not go that route.

[MarcelNL]

BTW: I attended Currentzis conducting Mahler 4th at RCO yesterday....loads of work to be done for audio at home....what an acoustic, what a performance....we did not dare play any music afterwards....colors, overtones, high and low freq definition in spades, what a room it is, and what an orchestre and what a conductor, a true once in a lfetime event!

[Rubberduck]

I hope this fits here as I didn't think it would warrant a new topic;

Looking into rebuilding my music server and was already considering upgrading to I2S at some point.

 

However, there's several I2S to HDMI modules around and looking up the schematic (was considering using a EngineeredRed XU2S, rather than the Amanero) I find the pin layouts confusing. They don't seem to match up 1:1, the labels seem different. Is there a quick guide out there or even a best pick? Would be nice if there were such a module which could be plugged onto the connector itself.

[MarcelNL]

2 hours ago, Rubberduck said:

I hope this fits here as I didn't think it would warrant a new topic;

Looking into rebuilding my music server and was already considering upgrading to I2S at some point.

 

However, there's several I2S to HDMI modules around and looking up the schematic (was considering using a EngineeredRed XU2S, rather than the Amanero) I find the pin layouts confusing. They don't seem to match up 1:1, the labels seem different. Is there a quick guide out there or even a best pick? Would be nice if there were such a module which could be plugged onto the connector itself.

please explain what your goal is? I2S can be connected without conversion so if I2S output is available you do not need this convertor, if I2S is not available you need something like the Pink Faun HEA bridge.

 

[Rubberduck]

18 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

please explain what your goal is? I2S can be connected without conversion so if I2S output is available you do not need this convertor, if I2S is not available you need something like the Pink Faun HEA bridge.

 

 

The Pink Faun doesn't fit my needs, not right now anyways and it doesn't fit nicely/at all with my DIY case CAD sketches.

 

I want to use the coaxial out from this one (directly available through a header) and expand with i2s hdmi later;

https://www.engineered.ch/products/usb-interface-1/

To connect it in the future to either a dac or amplifier with i2s input, want to use USB separately for another player.

 

I've got one of those green multi out boards from audiophonics now (coax/optical/aes/i2s) for testing but the Amanero is giving me problems.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/interface-modules/i2s-usb-to-aesebu-coaxial-optical-hdmi-digital-interface-32bit-384khz-dsd128-p-13627.html

The XU2S has the same connector as the Amanero and could connect them both, but due to space constraints rather don't.

 

[MarcelNL]

If I understand you correctly (correct me if I'm wrong)  you plan on using an existing output format and convert that to LVDS I2S? What I2S format you need will be dictated by the DAC you are using. I2S over HDMi if frequently being used but also not standardized (yet), you might run  into a DAC using I2S over RJ45 (ethernet)

 

(the Audiophonics website appears to be down)

 

[Rubberduck]

8 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

If I understand you correctly (correct me if I'm wrong)  you plan on using an existing output format and convert that to LVDS I2S? What I2S format you need will be dictated by the DAC you are using. I2S over HDMi if frequently being used but also not standardized (yet), you might run  into a DAC using I2S over RJ45 (ethernet)

 

(the Audiophonics website appears to be down)

 

 

I'm planning to use my current amplifier with coax in, if I get you right. Not converting anything.

 

For the future streamer I want to rip my SACD collection to DSF (which is DSD as I understand it) and pass that on 1:1.

Maybe it's better for me to wait till i2s gets finalised then? will be using Neutrik sockets so I could just blank it for now.

 

Ziggo connect wel trouwens

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, Rubberduck said:

 

I'm planning to use my current amplifier with coax in, if I get you right. Not converting anything.

 

For the future streamer I want to rip my SACD collection to DSF (which is DSD as I understand it) and pass that on 1:1.

Maybe it's better for me to wait till i2s gets finalised then? will be using Neutrik sockets so I could just blank it for now.

 

Ziggo connect wel trouwens

I2S may never be finalized/standardized...

 

Coax is just a cable geometry, not the holy grail IMO...I'd focus on the data format and see what cable you can use for that.

What inputs does your amp have, what amp is it?

 

I2S in native format is IME a nice step in SQ, but amps typically do not accept I2S unless it's an amp with integrated DAC (and in that case I doubt the benefit will be interesting enough to invest any money and effort in since most integrated DAC's are an afterthought)

[Rubberduck]

22 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

I2S may never be finalized/standardized...

 

What inputs does your amp have, what amp is it?

 

Just don't laugh, it's an older one and not particularly aimed at audiophile (also it's a receiver not so much an amplifier, sorry!).

Cambridge Audio Azur 351R, connected to both coax are my volumio streamer plus sacd player.

Yeah back then I had different priorities and now I want to upgrade most parts of the setup.

But would very much like to build another streamer and learn a lot on the way / try to see what software I like and I2S out just seemed like a good idea to me.

 

I'll wait out on i2s for now and just rethink everything a bit.

[MarcelNL]

I won't laugh, Cambridge makes nice gear! Just get going an build a streamer, you'll need a dedicated DAC at some point to lift SQ to the next level but until then I'd use whatever input format your amp can handle.

IME the order of sound quality is USB-SPDIF-I2S, but ultimately it all comes down to the quality of implementation...so a poor i2S implementation can sound worse than a great USB....

 

 

[Nenon]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

I won't laugh, Cambridge makes nice gear! Just get going an build a streamer, you'll need a dedicated DAC at some point to lift SQ to the next level but until then I'd use whatever input format your amp can handle.

IME the order of sound quality is USB-SPDIF-I2S, but ultimately it all comes down to the quality of implementation...so a poor i2S implementation can sound worse than a great USB....

I have a different opinion here. My best USB implementation is a lot better than my best i2S implementation. 

My best i2S implementation consisted of a PinkFaun I2S Bridge with ultraOCXO clock powered by a Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS. 

 

For a while, i2S was better than USB. I found out that the limitation with USB was the Amanero USB input in my DAC. The minute I replaced that with a JLSounds+reclocker (powered by 2 rails DC4 LPS), I realized how much better USB was, and I never looked back at i2S. 

 

Actually, I tried to make i2S working a few times after, but what I realized was that sending i2S over long distance (more than a couple of inches) degrades the sound quality significantly. LVDS and expensive HDMI cables helped but they were still far from the results I was getting with USB. Experts were telling me that but I was ignoring them and thought I was gettings very good results with my i2S implementation. However, after hearing well implemented USB, I can say they were right about that. 

 

USB is not perfect either. It has its own limitation and can be improved. That's why one of the projects I tried at the time was to take the pinkFaun i2S card (with ultraOCXO) and build a second daughter card on it which was a DAC. This way, the DAC would tap into the i2S signal less than an inch away. Unfortunately, I did not have enough knowledge at the time to do that and this project did not go anywhere. 

 

It has always been on my dream to build a PCIe DAC (in my case based on the pinkFaun i2S card). And not only Taiko did that but they redesigned it from scratch as a much better solution, rather than the "afterthought" solution I was trying to build. 

I do think that the Taiko DAC card will be a huge value for DIY.

 

It's a simple recipe:

- DIY server (in the Taiko chassis if you can afford it)

- ULPS feeding the Taiko DC-DC ATX

- Taiko DAC

And you get a world class digital source. Just connect it to your preamp and enjoy. And if you want to tweak things, there is plenty of stuff one can do - from adding a better LPS for the DAC to tweaking computer hardware and software or ULPS parts and cables. 

[Exocer]

To add to Nenon’s post, if you have an i9 9900k based machine or something in the 8th/9th gen range do yourself and add the SOTM SMB Q370 motherboard to your to try list. It sounds really really good, and I strongly feel that it has extracted way more performance from my system than I expected. This is without the additional clock board too.

 

Is it better than the Dual CPU Asus Sage builds? I do not know. Probably not. But I am much less curious now.

[Rubberduck]

You're all giving me a hard time choosing the right upgrade path :P

 

Well I already have a JCAT USB Crystek oscillator card (green version, not black) with a headphone amp on my desktop, so if I had a streamer with both I2S and USB I could compare them at some point.

But from that setup I can tell a shorter or better USB cable does make a minute difference somehow.

As for the Amanero, thought of testing the XU2S to see if that would make a difference.

Several people seem to really like that one, it just doesn't have (easy) upgradable oscillators.

 

@NenonHave you tried the Amanero in chain with the Taiko/another USB card? I could actually check for myself with Both the JCAT + Amanero but my current receiver probably isn't good enough to notice a difference anyways.

[MarcelNL]

It's very hard to draw conclusions from comparing I2S and USB as it comes down to how good the implementation of BOTH systems is and also important you'll be comparing TWO devices so there are 4 levels of implementation that may differ.

 

I agree with Nenon (he disagreed with my post yet I think we agree on the fact that implementation is the key to success for SPDIF/USB/AES/I2S etc, that HIS best implementation was not better then his best USB implementation does not mean USB wins the overall game IMO).

 

I2S is a bit of an odd format, it's the result of Philips coming up with a 'language' to let various IC's within the CD player communicate, it was not designed for long distance.

Long ago I was modding my CD-player and discussed I2S with one of the few remaining Philips engineers who worked on I2S and he basically told me that contrary to common belief the format is not limited to inches but that it can easily travel approx 20cm but that longer stretches require some additional care.

 

I2S over HDMI using LVDS is IMO not the best implementation, IMO Metrum has a better I2S system which uses Ethernet cable and RJ45 connectors and allows impedance matching. 

 

I2S explained:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I²S

 

I'm eagerly awaiting more detail on Taiko Audio's new proprietary digital data format, and most of all; if and how manufacturers will be able to implement it....just having one end of a new hopefully great digital data stream is not enough.

 

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

I2S over HDMI using LVDS is IMO not the best implementation,

 

Well the problem is that many (most) engineers are not picky about the LVDS driver/receiver chips they pick for their I2S over LVDS/HDMI implementations.  The datasheets for the typically used parts do not even have jitter specs.  Now if designers would look to the high-speed clock buffer and video driver segment they would find some very low jitter parts for good I2S.  But almost nobody does so.  One recent exception seems to be Holo with the Spring 3 and May, and a recent Singxer DDC--though I have not looked specifically at what parts they chose.

 

The above is not to excuse the fact that virtually no DACs send the master clock back up to I2S source--which would be the preferred way assuming the DAC's clock is bette than that of the source.  

Because of that, and because of great variability in DAC architecture, in some cases the I2S source (DDC) becomes the clock for the DAC (e.g. my original Holo Spring) (probably explains the great sonic differences between different I2S/HDMI cables), and in some cases the DAC is recovering the clock/data and resampling everything to something else anyway (e.g. PS Audio DirectStream).

 

In the end all inputs on a DAC are converting to I2S: So its S/PDIF>I2S, USB>I2S, Ethernet>I2S.  Advantage of these internal input stages is that the DAC's master clock can be fed to whichever input board, thus remaining the master. Earlier on, and you still see it some, USB>I2S boards had their own audio-rate clocks but that's a poor way to implement USB in a DAC.  

 

Thus you can see that it all comes down to proper implementation--and one can not generalize. 

 

[BCRich]

Hey Gang,

Those who have done the Taiko DIY Chassis build; what IEC Inlet have you used. The Furutech FI-09/09NCF does not fit. Lot’s of QC issues by the way. Disappointing to say the least. 

Thanks for the feed back in advance.

Mike