The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[sphinxsix]

Greta Thunberg and some of the world’s leading climate scientists have written to EU leaders demanding they act immediately to avoid the worst impacts of the unfolding climate and ecological emergency.

The letter, which was sent before a European council meeting, says the Covid-19 pandemic has shown that most leaders are able to act swiftly and decisively, but the same urgency had been missing in politicians’ response to the climate crisis.

It has been signed by 80,000 people including some of the world’s leading scientists.

Thunberg and other leaders of the school strikes movement across Europe said the €750bn EU Covid recovery plan was inadequate.

 

Greta Thunberg says EU recovery plan fails to tackle climate crisis.

 

 

 

[sphinxsix]

 

First active leak of sea-bed methane discovered in Antarctica.

 

[sphinxsix]

 

The new study, likely to be the most influential yet, narrows range of probable temperature rises.

 

[sphinxsix]

The cost of preventing further pandemics over the next decade by protecting wildlife and forests would equate to just 2% of the estimated financial damage caused by Covid-19, according to a new analysis.
Two new viruses a year had spilled from their wildlife hosts into humans over the last century, the researchers said, with the growing destruction of nature meaning the risk today is higher than ever. It was vital to crack down on the international wildlife trade and the razing of forests, they said.
The key programmes the scientists are calling for are: much better regulation of the wildlife trade, disease surveillance and control in wild and domestic animals, ending the wild meat trade in China, and cutting deforestation by 40% in key places. There was a clear link between deforestation and virus emergence, they said, with forest bats the likely reservoirs of the Ebola, Sars and Covid-19 viruses, and tropical forest edges a “major launchpad” for new viruses infecting humans.
“It’s naive to think of the Covid-19 pandemic as a once in a century event,” said Prof Andrew Dobson at Princeton University in the US, who led the analysis. “As with anything we’re doing to the environment, they’re coming faster and faster, just like climate change.”

 

Cost of preventing next pandemic 'equal to just 2% of Covid-19 economic damage'

 

                             

[John Dyson]

46 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

The cost of preventing further pandemics over the next decade by protecting wildlife and forests would equate to just 2% of the estimated financial damage caused by Covid-19, according to a new analysis.
Two new viruses a year had spilled from their wildlife hosts into humans over the last century, the researchers said, with the growing destruction of nature meaning the risk today is higher than ever. It was vital to crack down on the international wildlife trade and the razing of forests, they said.
The key programmes the scientists are calling for are: much better regulation of the wildlife trade, disease surveillance and control in wild and domestic animals, ending the wild meat trade in China, and cutting deforestation by 40% in key places. There was a clear link between deforestation and virus emergence, they said, with forest bats the likely reservoirs of the Ebola, Sars and Covid-19 viruses, and tropical forest edges a “major launchpad” for new viruses infecting humans.
“It’s naive to think of the Covid-19 pandemic as a once in a century event,” said Prof Andrew Dobson at Princeton University in the US, who led the analysis. “As with anything we’re doing to the environment, they’re coming faster and faster, just like climate change.”

 

Cost of preventing next pandemic 'equal to just 2% of Covid-19 economic damage'

 

                             

Deforestation or not, with the wet markets as they are, and the super fast travel to/from the wet-market areas -- the pandemic would likely have happened.  It is all about novel pathogens being introduced into the human population.  Many of the pathogens have existed a long time, and virus especially mutate all of the time.

 

I really do worry about those researchers with special funding interests doing an 'adjustment' to the problem so that they might increase the liklihood of new grants.   Too many interests appear to defocus the public attention by being too creative doing advocacy for their own selfish reasons.  (Altruism?  heh...)

 

Tp avoid the spread of the 'now-plague', hygiene and proper sanitation are most important.   'sanitation' includes all aspects (including restricing movements when appropriate.)  (Mask are part of that, along with travel restrictions when beneficia.)

 

Imagine if it was Ebola instead of COVID in Wuhan...   China was wise enough to practice some sanitation for their own people/economy (by local travel controls.) for the other areas of their own country, but didn't reasonbly quickly  disclose the information needed for other countries.

 

So, I see these results created by a lot of contributing causes.  Destructive political decisions, along with political advocacy taking advantage are certainly a contributing cause of part of the actual damage, along with the original sanitation and definitely irresponsible human encroachment into nature.  Perhaps most disgusting  are a lot of dirty players trying to take advantage, making the situation worse than it really needed to be.  Obviously, something bad was likely to happen, but there are some truly evil 'players'  out there.

 

John

 

[sphinxsix]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:23 AM, John Dyson said:

Deforestation or not,

Even if some studies on the influence of deforestation on spreading animals derived diseases were some exaggeration, this would be something I personally call a 'good lie'.

Think of the world as of a smoker who smokes more and more while his lungs volume decreases with each day.

 

[sphinxsix]

The Dutch are realists as usual.

 

Dutch city redraws its layout to prepare for global heating effects

 

Utrecht rooftops to be ‘greened’ with plants and mosses in new plan

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Rising temperatures will cause more deaths than all infectious diseases – study

 

 

[semente]

Letter from economists: to rebuild our world, we must end the carbon economy

The carbon economy amplifies racial, social and economic inequities, creating a system that is fundamentally incompatible with a stable future

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/04/economists-letter-carbon-economy-climate-change-rebuild

 

 

Start by voting out the incompetent populists, I say.

[sphinxsix]

An interesting read IMO.

 

'The Amazon is the vagina of the world': why women are key to saving Brazil's forests.

 

Indigenous leader Célia Xakriabá and Vagina Monologues author V discuss Brazil’s biodiversity crisis and why this is the century of the indigenous woman

 

 

 

[Racerxnet]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:09 PM, sphinxsix said:

Greta Thunberg and some of the world’s leading climate scientists

 

Greta has what qualifications in the scientific community? Wasn't she the one who had a car full of plastic wrappers from food, while complaining about the plastics within the ecosystem. POT kettle BLACK. Who/what is going to replace the oil used to manufacture our everyday products as well as reduce the population to reduce resource usage. You want to die first?? Your kids? Manufacturers need to get onboard instead of planned obsolescence.

[DuckToller]

@Racerxnet

 

Wasn't it you who brought down the @sphinxsix thread idea about a musical reaction from Covidean times?
Pls correct me if I remember wrongly. If I am correct, please behave better in this thread which has already 30 pages ...
Tom

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, Racerxnet said:

Greta has what qualifications in the scientific community?

It's meaningless.

 

1 hour ago, Racerxnet said:

Wasn't she the one who had a car full of plastic wrappers from food, while complaining about the plastics within the ecosystem.

Also meaningless, even if she had had 2 tones of plastic in her car she has done more for the environment than me, you, all participants of this thread and president Trump taken together.

 

1 hour ago, Racerxnet said:

You want to die first?? Your kids?

I actually have to ask you the same question from a position of a person who is really concerned with the possible consequences of the global warming 

 

1 hour ago, Racerxnet said:

reduce the population

We've heard it before, I only hope there are no some particular ethnic groups on your mind..

 

[Summit]

2 hours ago, Racerxnet said:

 

Greta has what qualifications in the scientific community? Wasn't she the one who had a car full of plastic wrappers from food, while complaining about the plastics within the ecosystem. POT kettle BLACK. Who/what is going to replace the oil used to manufacture our everyday products as well as reduce the population to reduce resource usage. You want to die first?? Your kids? Manufacturers need to get onboard instead of planned obsolescence.

 

You don’t need to be a scientist to understand IPCC’s comprehensive Assessment Reports. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)'s goal is to guide and explain to politicians and others science and risks related to climate change.

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Wasn't it you who brought down the @sphinxsix thread idea about a musical reaction from Covidean times?

No, I think I discussed with him more or less the question of what is more important in the context of the pandemic - human jobs or human lives.. Guess what was his opinion on that.. 

Unfortunately he (?) is not the only one to think so..

@Racerxnet If these were us who discussed the topic, I must say I was wrong - IMO your president also in this field didn't do so ..well.. great.. after all.

 

[sphinxsix]

Back  on topic.

 

In July 2020, Kiwibank announced a policy that rules out any future lending or investment in fossil fuels. This makes them the first bank in New Zealand to commit to being Fossil Free, and the first bank in the world that has committed to withhold banking services from coal, oil and gas companies – they won’t even take fossil fuel companies on as customers!

 

 

 

 

 

[sphinxsix]

This or law aimed at limiting fossil fuels extraction or some other idea.?

I would be really interested in what knowledgeable AS guys have to say on this topic.

 

The postponed Cop26 climate conference will take place in 2021

[John Dyson]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:40 AM, sphinxsix said:

Back  on topic.

 

In July 2020, Kiwibank announced a policy that rules out any future lending or investment in fossil fuels. This makes them the first bank in New Zealand to commit to being Fossil Free, and the first bank in the world that has committed to withhold banking services from coal, oil and gas companies – they won’t even take fossil fuel companies on as customers!

 

 

 

 

 

Without the recent investment done by the US, we wouldn't be using natural gas as often.  Also, without previous investment, we'd still be using coal and other such horrible sources of energy like some other countries are still probably increasing (e.g. coal.)

There is a balancing act on the investment thing, and there is a time for bridging.   Investing in more coal plants -- probably very bad, changing from coal to natural gas -- a good step.   Moving to oil from natural gas -- a bad thing.  Getting natural gas for free during pumping oil -- good thing.   Eventually, there will be less need for fossil fuels.

 

It is not an all or nothing thing, but there needs to be SOME movement, especially movement away from coal plants and burning refuse without proper measures.   Building new coal plants is probably a sin (but sometimes the entire circumstance isnt known by the rest of us.)

 

To me, it isn't a religion, nor should it be -- but it should be a change.

The thing that bothers me most are 'pledges' that are missed.   Best not to misinform or be misguided -- try to do things that are real.

Frankly, I don't like the idea of no electricity when there is no wind -- and perhaps storage might be the best place to invest.

Also,  would love to see more investment in studying Thorium -- but I am so far outside of my area of expertise, don't know if that is a dry well.

 

John

 

 

[PYP]

In the U.S., very little can be done unless Congress appropriates funds and creates policy for subsidies and tax breaks.  Where I live the sun is shining almost all the time.   How many home owners use solar?  Very few.  We purchased our solar panels when there were tax breaks.  Without the subsidies at the time, the cost/benefit equation wouldn't work.

 

In my subdivision, only two neighbors have solar.  Storage systems aren't ideal, but with a grid-tied system you always have power -- sometimes from the power company and sometimes from your solar panels.    

 

Policy requires leadership and Ms. Thunberg is correct that we don't have that in the U.S. government at the moment.  

 

Folks were hoarding toilet paper when the virus hit.  What happens when the food supply is affected by climate change?  Watch out!

[sphinxsix]

I hope everyone is safe.

 

The future has arrived. These explosive fires are our climate change wakeup call - Peter Gleick in San Francisco

 

 

[sphinxsix]

On 9/7/2020 at 2:20 PM, John Dyson said:

To me, it isn't a religion, nor should it be

 

I don't think I'm religious.. I just post some links every now and then here because I think it's important.

One more thing, IMO it wouldn't necessarily be that bad if being engaged in the environmental field replaced some religions.

Especially for our children.

 

[John Dyson]

26 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

 

I don't think I'm religious.. I just post some links every now and then here because I think it's important.

One more thing, IMO it wouldn't necessarily be that bad if being engaged in the environmental field replaced some religions.

Especially for our children.

 

Religions aren't really the problem, but using them as weapons against other people -- political, economic, etc -- that is where misuse of religion or metaphysics becomes problematic.   Many of our current 'problems' are caused by twisting society movements and corrections into a'war' (class war, economic war, etc...)  of some kind.

 

Religions tend towards 'faith' and not 'intellect'.   We already have too many emotions going on out there!!!   There is a place for religion, but maybe not so much in an intellectual/physics realm.

 

Emotions even pop up when trying to stay in the intellectual realm.  Metaphysics and faith are really confusing factors -- aren't we already very confused?  Even our supposed 'intellectuals' often become overly emotional, sometimes becoming blind to facts.

 

We are truly irrational creatures, aren't we? :-).

I have no solutions -- just observations.   I don't participate anymore - it is a jungle out there.

Darn'it -- just fix the problem :-).

 

John

 

[JoeWhip]

As someone who has been blessed to have visited all 7 continents, it is time we got off fossil fuels. I have seen the changes in the climate and the planet first hand. It is really depressing. As a family, do what we can. We drive Teslas and try to charge them with the cleanest possible sources of electricity. Hopefully one day we can go full solar here but not with current tech given our terrain. Millions of jobs can be created building out renewables. I saw an interesting video on line about a company in the UK that created solar tiles using a cement base that work very well and can be used on the typical UK home. Imagine if all new homes used this tech and when people replaced their roofs, they used this or a similar tech. Excess power could be fed back to the grid. Battery backup for night time. More jobs, better environment a win all around.

[PYP]

Isn't treating a finite resource as finite just common sense?  It should be.  No need to politicize it or turn it into a religion.  Do we want clean water and clean air for ourselves and the generations that follow?  Do we want the world to be able to feed itself?  It cannot do that right now.  It is estimated that "food insecurity" in the developing world will nearly double this year to 265 million.  The pandemic has made this worse, of course, but it nothing compared to the soon-to-be and long-term effects of climate change.  That is a fact.  Scientists agree on this much.  

 

And even the non-thinkers among us should see how science is needed in times of stress, like this pandemic.  Hasn't this pandemic illustrated the we may not have the leaders we need (worldwide) to address these issues?  What kind of leadership will be needed when food becomes scarce and whole communities need to move inland from the coasts?  Those are two very real possible outcomes.  So, yes, passions can run high because these issues were raised eloquently in the 70s and we still delay.

 

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.  

 

  

[semente]