The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[sphinxsix]

Some more good news from EU.

 

EU pledges coronavirus recovery plan will not harm climate goals

 

On 5/13/2020 at 1:49 PM, semente said:

Unless we change the paradigm of infinite growth and consumerist lifestyle and making the top 1% richer there's no way we'll ever make it.

 

I must admit that IMO also making 10% of all the countries richer and thus further away from the so called '3rd' world may and probably will not work. Maybe what the coronavirus crises should have showed us is the fact that we live in a world that is so interconnected and so interdependent that thinking in terms of 'us' and 'them' simply may not work anymore 

 

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Air pollution in China back to pre-Covid levels and Europe may follow

 

Climate change in deep oceans could be seven times faster by middle of century, report says.

 

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Climate crisis to blame for $67bn of Hurricane Harvey damage

 

 

[semente]

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Pandemics result from destruction of nature, say UN and WHO

 

 

Climate crisis: alarm at record-breaking heatwave in Siberia

 

 

 

Deadly heat is killing Americans: A decade of inaction on climate puts lives at risk

 

 

 

[Summit]

Environmental regulations in Egypt is lacking big time. A new bridge in Giza, Egypt, has upset people in the area. The bridge runs so close to the residential buildings that residents will be able to walk from their balconies to the bridge.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/har-ar-bron-som-nastan-snuddar-husen

[elcorso]

Not for direct cause of fossil fuel consumption, but very dangerous

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/smoke-australian-fires-rose-higher-ozone-layer-than-ever-before?utm_source=Editors_Picks&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorspicks062120

 

Roch

[sphinxsix]

On 6/20/2020 at 7:04 PM, Summit said:

Environmental regulations in Egypt is lacking big time. A new bridge in Giza, Egypt, has upset people in the area. The bridge runs so close to the residential buildings that residents will be able to walk from their balconies to the bridge.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/har-ar-bron-som-nastan-snuddar-husen

This looks really sick.

 

[Summit]

9 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

This looks really sick.

 

 

Yep it is sick. I work with environmental regulations before roads and other big infrastructure are built in Sweden and can say that the regulations are very different, which am happy for.

 

I have been to Egypt (2006) and the air and cars in Cairo was the worst I have seen ever and I have been to a lot of places.

[sphinxsix]

 

Worth reading IMO.

 

World has six months to avert climate crisis

 

 

[elcorso]

On 6/25/2020 at 5:48 PM, sphinxsix said:

 

Worth reading IMO.

 

World has six months to avert climate crisis

 

 

We're going too far, don't you think ?

 

 

 

Roch

[sphinxsix]

17 hours ago, elcorso said:

 

 

We're going too far, don't you think ?

 

 

 

Roch

 

We are going very far indeed. Let's hope we will not go all the way..

 

[sphinxsix]

 

Coronavirus - world treating symptoms, not cause of pandemics, ongoing destruction of nature will result in stream of animal diseases jumping to humans, says UN report.

 

 

[Summit]

Despite all the talk about the importance of a green transition in the economy, at least $ 151 billion has been invested in fossil fuels during the corona pandemic. Only $88.63 billion supporting clean energy.

 

https://www.energypolicytracker.org/region/g20/

[sphinxsix]

3 hours ago, Summit said:

Despite all the talk about the importance of a green transition in the economy, at least $ 151 billion has been invested in fossil fuels during the corona pandemic. Only $88.63 billion supporting clean energy.

 

https://www.energypolicytracker.org/region/g20/

 

But fortunately it seems there are some who begin to treat the environmental problems with the seriousness they deserve. 

 

3 unexpected ways to tackle climate change

 

I personally have signed a petition demanding a green covid recovery plan which has to be presented to the participants of the November G20 summit but I'm afraid that in case of the climate crisis 'clicktivism' may not be enough..

 

[John Dyson]

On 5/28/2020 at 5:04 PM, sphinxsix said:

Some more good news from EU.

 

EU pledges coronavirus recovery plan will not harm climate goals

 

 

I must admit that IMO also making 10% of all the countries richer and thus further away from the so called '3rd' world may and probably will not work. Maybe what the coronavirus crises should have showed us is the fact that we live in a world that is so interconnected and so interdependent that thinking in terms of 'us' and 'them' simply may not work anymore 

 

 

The problem about 'us' and 'them' is that the standards are so varied.   Some cultures tend to create improvement without international regulation, and others will not improve, even when they have created fake-laudible goals.

 

We have much more immediate risk that the environment culture seems to totally ignore:  mismanagement of biological pollution.  All of the world just  get damaged by environmental/biological malfeasance, the results of such misbehavior appears to be getting worse.  The whole world just got damaged by either: filthy wet markets, or intentional husbanding of an insidious virus?  What kind of regulation is in place for this more terrible, immediate threat to humanity (and potentially many mammal species?)  What kind of international tribunal for the intentional repression of warnings to the rest of the world?

 

There is a much more immediate potential fatal (at least damaging) risk that appears to be ignored for political reasons and business greed.

 

John

 

[sphinxsix]

7 hours ago, John Dyson said:

What kind of regulation is in place for this more terrible, immediate threat to humanity (and potentially many mammal species?)  What kind of international tribunal for the intentional repression of warnings to the rest of the world?

These are actually the questions I've been asking myself recently.

IMO this may be really the high time for us to shift from the 'us and (or even vs) them' perspective towards more let's say 'we are one world' perspective, no matter how idealistically and utopian this might sound. In general I would probably be in favour of finding some balance between exerting political and economic pressure on the countries which could afford switching to clean energy but don't want to do that and helping (loans, grants) the countries which really can't afford it. We should be aware that in the later case we would be in fact helping ourselves or in the other words - saving our own a.. 

 

BTW I must admit I was reading this, this morning with my eyes really wide open.

 

Green New Deal in all but name.

 

[sandyk]

8 hours ago, John Dyson said:

There is a much more immediate potential fatal (at least damaging) risk that appears to be ignored for political reasons and business greed.

 +1

[sphinxsix]

@John Dyson Sorry, I actually didn't answer your questions, I can only say that IMO also in this case we need an international, world wide cooperation, I'm not an expert on that topic (nor any other that is discussed here for that matter), I can only suggest checking out e.g. the first link from this post:

 

 

[John Dyson]

41 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

@John Dyson Sorry, I actually didn't answer your questions, I can only say that IMO also in this case we need an international, world wide cooperation, I'm not an expert on that topic (nor any other that is discussed here for that matter), I can only suggest checking out e.g. the first link from this post:

 

 

Looking at it realistically, we have had pandemics far in the past -- they are caused more by travel & ignorance instead of destruction.  Perhaps this time, we have purposeful malfeasance in the mix -- akin to, but with even more destructive intent to the pox infested blankets here in the early Americas.

Frankly, I see the current pandemic more a matter of biological warfare (the spread was entirely voluntary -- willfull 'ignorance'.)

In either case though, whether we are speaking about incedental environmental destruction, or intentional pandemic -- there needs to be standards, and egregious malfeasance/misbehavior should be amenable to a world court.

 

All too often, we see these laudible goals, but seldom met.  Likewise, when the goals are less formalized, then we have successful management...  What is the right solution to the problem (if real?)   The correct solution is to solve the problem, as methodology is less important than solving the real problem.

 

Unfortunately, we are headed for a cold cycle in world temperatures -- what is the correct management solution, when short term there might be a heating issue?

 

Likewise, we don't need 'yet another 5yr plan' or similar.   In history, there have been a lot of laudible goals, but talk is cheap.

 

John

 

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

Perhaps this time, we have purposeful malfeasance in the mix

I very much doubt it.

 

1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

Unfortunately, we are headed for a cold cycle in world temperatures

I don't think so. At least not in the time perspective we should be really interested in right now.

 

1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

what is the correct management solution, when short term there might be a heating issue?

Let me ask a different question - what if short term is all we have and possible consequences of 'incorrect management' could much worse than what's going on now around the world in connection with the pandemic.?

 

BTW this may be some good news:

 

Oxford coronavirus vaccine triggers immune response, trial shows. Early results also indicate vaccine is safe.

 

Trials involving 1,077 people showed the vaccine injection led to them making antibodies and T-cells that can fight coronavirus.

 

[John Dyson]

21 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

I very much doubt it.

 

I don't think so. At least not in the time perspective we should be really interested in right now.

 

Let me ask a different question - what if short term is all we have and possible consequences of 'incorrect management' could much worse than what's going on now around the world in connection with the pandemic.?

 

 

About the temperature rise -- yea, we still have some increases before the dip into another cold wave -- the temperatures are still rising a bit because of the plant's orbit, but decrease in sunspots have suppressed some of the rise.  We have very substantial aspects of the planet's orbit that we cannot control, and are in the midst of some orbit dependent increases.   Gotta separate the variables, to get a correlatiot.  (Sunspot variations, orbit variations -- there is even a multi 100k year cycle that really enlongates the orbit more-- can get really cold than just the ice age variations.)  And, yes, the pollution coming from countries who haven't even slowed down their CO2 increases, even MORE coal plants -- it is a real mess.   There are LOTS of variables and even more politics, before a good set of choices can be made.   Just willy nilly twisting the economy of country A, while country C keeps on polluting worse and worse -- gotta make the right decisions.

 

About the pandemic:

 

The pandemic could have been better controlled (like on the west coast), if we knew about the spread ahead of time.  We didnt' realize (because of a lack of transparency from the source country) that Europe had already been terribly infested.  The US only protected itself from direct China travel to some extent at first.

 

Social distancing is super effective, and the strongest social distancing is limiting travel.

 

China's intentional behavior and lack of willingness to gather info by the WHO (because of political ties to China) is what let the pandemic go totally haywire.  Now, it is fully inserted itself into human population.  If one suggests, oh well, it would have happened anyway -- please refer to Ebola.   Think about the China behavior, but instead the virus was Ebola...  Thank God the filthy wet markets (or screwed up research -- either one) didn't create something as bad as Ebola.  China took advantage of the situation.

 

The big tell about the PRC virus  control in China -- look at the huge amount of international travel to/from Wuhan (but travel not allowed to domestic China).  This is targeted germ warfare.

 

John

 

[R1200CL]

10 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

BTW I must admit I was reading this, this morning with my eyes really wide open.

 

Green New Deal in all but name.

Which women he choose as Vice President is said to be very important as well. She is very likely to be the US next president if Biden win. He has said he will only do 4 years. 

[sphinxsix]

@John Dyson I'm sure China can be blamed for some cover ups in particular during the initial stages of the pandemic. At the same time it can not eclipse the fact that in many countries (IMO also in the US) dealing with the disease was and in many cases still is very incompetent and political goals proved to be more important than people's health and lives.

I think I will stop here. 

 

[John Dyson]

27 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

@John Dyson I'm sure China can be blamed for some cover ups in particular during the initial stages of the pandemic. At the same time it can not eclipse the fact that in many countries (IMO also in the US) dealing with the disease was and in many cases still is very incompetent and political goals proved to be more important than people's health and lives.

I think I will stop here. 

 

The problem with the US is that the Federal government has so little power...  Each state interacts with the people.  Note the pushback in the states against even the Federal government protecting its own buildings in the violence afflicted areas.

Almost all interactions with the people directly are under state control.

The US is so inconsistent from one area to another, and with mostl of the authority about people/health/schools (except under insurrection) is in the states.

The best that the Federal government can do is to advise the states and support their needs with resources (note the super fast rampup of ventilators after all of the supplies in the country were not replenished in the past.)  The country was left naked, and has had to catch up realizing our stupid historical foreign policy.

Should a rancher area in the middle of no-where follow the same rules as NYC?  Nope.

The US is so heterogenious that a single rule doesn't fit all, along with the states having all of the authority -- and the extreme hatred and emotional dissolution in some cities -- ALL of the problems exist in the localities.  The US per-se has done what it can do, other than take over with full police powers (there are some laws that allow a take over, but that would be another can of worms.)

 

People who don't understand how the US works could certainly be confused, but the US is, in a way, 50+ countries or one country.  It is more like Britain with Wales, Scotland, and England than it is like England being split into 'shires.'.    Where Britain might be split into several 'countries', the US has 50+ (incl Puerto Rico/Washington), and the US counties have varied kinds rules when it comes to Federal vs State control/sovereignty.

The other problem is the political manipulation going on, the lack of proper control of borders, etc.  It was designed from the start that the federal government is relatively weak.  It is even weaker with the emotional problems in certain big cities and irrational/irresponsible local politicians.

It is time for the American people to get more serious about electing competent local leaders.   A city leader should be more competent than how they are acting nowadays.

 

John