semente Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Priaptor said: But of course, we won't do anything that will really make a difference because as usual, it is easy to manipulate the masses, spew a different narrative and inertia is very hard to break. People will feel good buying their solar panels and EV and everyone can feel good again. We should change our habits, reduce our footprint. The only other thing in our power is the vote. But is there a Green party in the US? Germany seems to be headed in the right green direction. sphinxsix 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, PYP said: It makes sense for economists to fully price a product, which would include the carbon footprint. At least then folks know what they are buying and the true cost to the planet. Overall, I think we are moving in the right direction, but too slowly. As the situation worsens, some solutions won't be viable any longer. Does it really make a difference? I think CA can teach a lot of what NOT to do despite their beliefs that they do it best. They have by far the highest gas prices in America with little change in driving habits. People adapt and don't change. Inertia rules Also, even if did make one think about it, what goal does it achieve other than to grease the palms of the Government who will find a way to waste whatever money they collect. Perfect example are highways. How many ways are we going to find a way to tax highways. Now they are discussing taxing miles driven. From my perch, the more taxes you give the government, the more latitude you give them for rationalize and justify fraud and abuse, which of course, they are never held accountable for. Again, I have no issues or complaints about rational economic incentives toward cleaner energy but our current strategies will do little to effect change. I am greedy. I want my rivers and nature back as they were meant to be. But that would require real sacrifice. Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, semente said: We should change our habits, reduce our footprint. The only other thing in our power is the vote. But is there a Green party in the US? Germany seems to be headed in the right green direction. I am not that familiar with Germany's approach. Could use a primer if you care to elaborate. I say that sincerely and not to pounce. Link to comment
Popular Post semente Posted September 24, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Priaptor said: I am not that familiar with Germany's approach. Could use a primer if you care to elaborate. I say that sincerely and not to pounce. This series of 3 podcasts is a good place to start: Can Germany Save the World? Because of its war history, Germany remains frightened of being assertive on its own. Yet it holds the key to enabling Europe to become the third global pole to China and America. This programme looks at Germany’s current place in the world: the facts, the psychology and the consequences. John Kampfner visits Duisburg in the gritty Ruhr area with its ambition to become “China City”. He goes to the former East, where businesses are desperate for closer ties with their former ally, Russia. He discusses the dilemmas Germany faces in its dealings with Russia: tensions over the poisoning of the opposition leader Alexei Navalny, and questions over the completion of the Nordstream 2 gas pipeline from Russia to Germany. He looks at the pressure Germany is under to increase defence spending, and asks whether the country is ready to be more assertive and to take its place on the world stage. And then there is the question of what Germany represents. Today, one quarter of those living there have a non-German ethnic background. It used to be the crossroads between East and West. Now it’s a magnet for the global south. Germany looks and feels different. This final programme assesses whether, through its foreign policy and increasingly diverse population, Germany could become the standard bearer for liberal democracy in a more uncertain and often authoritarian world. How confident is the country as it looks ahead to a time without Angela Merkel at the helm? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1cgm https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1cgn https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct1cgp PYP, Priaptor and sphinxsix 3 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
semente Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 7 hours ago, Priaptor said: Does it really make a difference? I think CA can teach a lot of what NOT to do despite their beliefs that they do it best. They have by far the highest gas prices in America with little change in driving habits. People adapt and don't change. Inertia rules Also, even if did make one think about it, what goal does it achieve other than to grease the palms of the Government who will find a way to waste whatever money they collect. Perfect example are highways. How many ways are we going to find a way to tax highways. Now they are discussing taxing miles driven. From my perch, the more taxes you give the government, the more latitude you give them for rationalize and justify fraud and abuse, which of course, they are never held accountable for. Again, I have no issues or complaints about rational economic incentives toward cleaner energy but our current strategies will do little to effect change. I am greedy. I want my rivers and nature back as they were meant to be. But that would require real sacrifice. I agree that many hobbies and the associated consumerism are part of the problem. Forums, webzines and video channels only throw more wood in the fire. No one needs a new DAC, USB gadget or cable, pair of speakers... There is enough hi-fi gear in the world to serve the needs of the next two generations and yet we crave for the new and the better. "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Popular Post semente Posted September 24, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2021 Dealing with the climate crisis will require a change in paradigm. The producer/consumer society is unsustainable and has a massive negative impact in the habitat which supports human, animal and vegetable life. It needs to be changed and will have a huge financial cost, a cost which must be supported by big business and the top 1% but which will require adapting from every single person. We can’t achieve the necessary changes without distributing wealth in a fairer and more even way, without more state control and profit ceilings and very strict regulations to control money and manufacturing standards. We needs strong and honest politicians, free (from business-interference) media, a more educated population and competent researchers/thinkers to help us mould this new world. Where there’s a will... DuckToller, sphinxsix and PYP 2 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Jud Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 4 hours ago, semente said: We needs strong and honest politicians, free (from business-interference) media, a more educated population and competent researchers/thinkers to help us mould this new world. Sad to say this, because I share the goal and try to do my part as I see it, but I think the response to this came from a hokey old US TV show called Dragnet. Dragnet was a show about Police Sergeant Joe Friday (told you it was hokey) bringing miscreants to justice every week. Friday's character specialized in a less sophisticated version of the acerbic one-liners Clint Eastwood and then Arnold Schwartzenegger would go on to make much more famous. One week I happened to turn to it as Friday was interviewing a generic leftist longhaired hippie troublemaker type. The hippie was passionately protesting that his actions were intended to bring about a future more perfect world. Sgt. Friday (deadpan, acerbic): "Can't have a perfect world." Mr. Hippie (outraged, impassioned): "Why not?!" Sgt. Friday (deadpan, acerbic): "No perfect people." Mr. Hippie: Visibly deflated silence. The Internet is only the latest of a long line of technologies and institutions that were supposed to make us better educated, better off, and better behaved. In general we do seem to be making slow, incremental progress on the first two. But I doubt that better education has actually made us smarter or our decisions better, and I don't think human behavior has changed much if at all as a result. We got into this mess being the vastly imperfect humans we are, and in the increasingly unlikely event we get out of it, it will have to be via methods this same vastly imperfect humanity can utilize. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
semente Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Jud said: We got into this mess being the vastly imperfect humans we are, and in the increasingly unlikely event we get out of it, it will have to be via methods this same vastly imperfect humanity can utilize. Perhaps got into this mess being the vastly greedy humans we are. Or am I the only one to see a correlation between profit and environmental disaster? Deregulation and weak governance got us here, mostly driven by corruption but also by ideology. It wouldn’t be so bad if we all had profited more fairly but that is not the case. In my view savage capitalism is incompatible with any solution. "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
semente Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Jud said: The Internet is only the latest of a long line of technologies and institutions that were supposed to make us better educated, better off, and better behaved. In general we do seem to be making slow, incremental progress on the first two. But I doubt that better education has actually made us smarter or our decisions better, and I don't think human behavior has changed much if at all as a result. I do agree with this. I often say that one of the biggest failures of modern civilisation is the belief that school is enough to make an honest, hard working and sensible human being out of most people. What better illustrates this than the current rise in populist governments? "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
DuckToller Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 contributed that 2019 , Summerbreeze ... .. " What importance does the weather (or change of climatic conditions) have for us audiophiles, you may like to ask? We have power conditioners, linear power supplies, solid state amplification and power hungry transducer, just because we can and we want to! ... And if there has been a wise SO, our system is accompanied by a nearly noiseless AC in our condo. Albeit, you are lucky ... Here in France, we usually have to deal with limitations in the grid, because some of the nuclear plant's reactors have been proven less resistant against overheating as expertly expected and thus have the need to be shut down more often for grace periods during the summer. I've noticed that ain't different in Germany and Belgium. Given that obvious vulnerability in European power resources which came to light, some people wonder why the French Nuclear Power lobby had successfully dichotomized the once so promising DESERTEC project during the last decade: Solar and Wind power for the European markets originated in the Sahara? As an Audiophile, I really appreciate the idea of regenerative clean power from sustainable energy sources, even more, if the system is able to improve energy supply to North Africa and the Sub-Saharan regions!!! Who would imagine that shareholders, for example of Siemens, GE, Trane and Goodman, or other companies that profiteered from shareholder value proposition/generation based on cheap & limitless consummation of energy sources for cooling aids, would stand up with their accumulated wealth to take on responsibility for environmental issues evolving as a consequence of these profits? I'd reckon, they would rather pay their advocates to prevent them of the obligation than to support victims of the existing/coming climate change. In short, there were billions of wealth made for investors and companies with engineering, manufacturing, installing and supplying HVAC systems, not only in the USA, but the environmental costs externalities, social & opportunity costs related to their economic success are usually distributed to the public budget. Which nowadays is forced to invest into a "big, beautiful wall" rather than support climate change prevention. It is not only a European problem alone, that available knowledge and wisdom haven't been used sufficiently to avoid a crisis that can't be controlled by state forces or conglomerates. In an age of denial, watercraft & wind energy nowadays are often criticized by their environmental impact and the unbearable costs of the future deconstruction. This argument didn't stop past decisions to build fossil fueled or nuclear power plants and gas & oil drilling platforms. It's 2019, the year when SHELL is using the uncertainty about Brexit to circumvent European legislation in order to back away from the formerly planned environment respecting deconstruction of its outdated oil-drilling platforms in the North Sea. Leaving an "estimated 11,000 tonnes of raw oil and toxins remaining" within the Brent oilfield between the Shetlands and Norway's west coast, as its removal would be "too costly and risky". Elsewhere in the USA, Floridians still believe it is God's will to get plagued by hurricanes, which are growing more destructive every year. You may wonder, if the long time denial of climate change and the discombobulating treatment of the science and scientists behind its explanation, has led people to believe, it's consequence is now an inescapable doom. And can no longer be reversed by human action and decisions or, for example, by executing the idea of re-size & de-growth . "... any serious proposals to change our lifestyles – cutting down on driving, flying or imported avocados – are considered “beyond the pale, heretic, almost insane”. This is especially true of air conditioning, where calls to use it less are frequently treated as suggestions that people should die in heat waves, or evidence of a malicious desire to deny other people the same comforts that citizens in wealthy countries already enjoy" (The Guardian,2019) As a counter argument often the low-efficiency use of energy for heating during the wintertime in old cities like Minneaopolis appears valid, as long as you do not put it into perspective. Although my family uses only ventilation in-house, nonetheless, I do not condemn air conditioning, overall. It has enormous positive effects on wellbeing and productivity in several countries, including the USA. In my personal conviction, this much desired effect of local cooling just unfortunately (too often) delivers an irreversible effect on global heating, with exceptions granted for cooling systems run by sustainable power generation. Still, the penetration of AC usage in European households north of the Mediterranean Sea is at about quarter compared to data from the US, and it differs a lot between the south and the north. Especially Germany and its neighbors having been traditionally outspoken critics of personal use of air conditioning, while the northern countries have nearly no usability scenario for AC. This is the cultural background for my personal assessment. Another point is to review the impact it has on our resources and climate change. I fully advocate solutions that would be as close as possible to a net zero carbon footprint." Link to comment
Jud Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, semente said: Perhaps got into this mess being the vastly greedy humans we are. Or am I the only one to see a correlation between profit and environmental disaster? Well of course who profits from corporate profit? Vastly greedy humans. I don't understand the distinction some folks make between corporations run by and comprised of individual people, and individual people when they leave work at the corporations and are sitting at home. Ethically, what is different? Quote Deregulation and weak governance got us here, mostly driven by corruption but also by ideology. I disagree with Priaptor that government is somehow uniquely less competent and more wasteful compared to private corporations. But seeing the deregulation and weak governance humans have so far wrought, what makes you think people will suddenly change? Quote It wouldn’t be so bad if we all had profited more fairly but that is not the case. Yes it would be so bad, unless by "we all" you include all living things on the planet, meaning humans would have been good stewards right along. Sorry not to be offering any quick solutions, but I'm not that smart. semente 1 One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
PYP Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 8 hours ago, semente said: We needs strong and honest politicians, free (from business-interference) media, a more educated population and competent researchers/thinkers to help us mould this new world. Where there’s a will... We can already see the difference that strong leadership has made in some countries during the pandemic. Will these be the same nations that lead the way in climate change policy? I believe social awareness does change and makes a difference over time. And generational differences will help. Young folks are already helping to change the conversation, but while many can vote now they won't be in organizations in positions of power for some time. What happens in the meantime? semente 1 Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Popular Post Iving Posted September 24, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2021 Human beings are good at one thing in particular ... setting good ideals - and failing to live up to them. As individuals, how many of us can say we live our lives according to our own best principles and standards. Closing the gap between how we would like to behave, and how we actually behave, improves personal happiness - since we become less conflicted, and satisfaction is obtained at a lower threshold. But shortcuts ever beckon. As Lord Darlington said in Oscar Wilde's 'Lady Windermere's Fan', "I can resist everything except temptation." As nations, we extol equality and social justice – setting ambitions for the greater good. But at the United Nations – arguably the nearest we have to any international forum for co-action – our representatives (whether on behalf of democracies or not) are sent there obliged to act/vote in the national interest. Self-interest and co-operation for the greater good are mutually antagonistic – well - depending on how you count the beans. In truth they are not if people can be satisfied with less. We don’t need half of what we think we need. Where is the evidence that human beings really care about their fellow creatures. We tolerate extreme and widespread poverty in the world. We tolerate wars and proxy wars in which those who suffer most are not even antagonists in the fight. Yet we venture into space, and half expect to meet intelligent extra-terrestrials with whom we may converse without shame. If there’s one thing that does provoke behaviour change it’s a personal crisis. An earthquake in our lives – literal or metaphorical. At once we surrender all our small prerogatives and concentrate instead on survival. The climate problem boils down to one thing. Can human beings wake up and smell the coffee before they are left with no choice. In other words – co-operate towards the greater good before it is too late. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere that human beings are approaching even a starting point in relation to global warming and its consequences. We roll the dice with nature’s tipping points. For most of us – bar the odd hurricane – our daily lives rarely encounter the larger forces of nature. But they are colossal beyond imagination. We just have to learn the art of co-operation. Human beings have never exercised this kind of surrender collectively (on a large scale) in living history – the victory over self-will in favour of community. As a general truism, those bearing the early and most severe brunt of climate change are the poorest. Those most lacking in political voice. But even in the developed world, there is no brake power. Half of lower Manhattan will endure storm surges within a few decades. The wealth gap is widening right across the world. The population is still rising too. What chance – in probability terms – does a child born today stand of never experiencing climate-related crisis. Or the consequences of nuclear and/or biological war. The latter quite foreseeably contingent on the former. “Oh don’t be such a pessimist”, the ostriches bleat with their heads half in the sand. “Technology will save us.” “The Young ‘uns ‘ll figure it out.” Well – Greta Thunberg may come across as someone who insists on herself a little. But any young person today who stands up to be counted against the dereliction of her/his predecessors does so with full justification. What a backbone she must have. The youngest of all have the greatest stake in the future. If they have the vision to gel around the kind of practical measures that might rein us back from the brink, the oldest amongst us have just too much brass neck if we don’t get out of the way. Here they come Looking so alive They're here for business But it's all none of your jive Brighter tomorrows are in their eyes You'd better make way for the young folks Oh, yeah yeah yeah yeah They say yes and you say no They ask you why, and you close the door My old friend, I thought you knew by now You can't do that to the young folks Oh, no no no no You might not like it, but I've got to tell you (you might not like it) Gotta tell you (yeah, I gotta tell you) You'd better make way for the young folks Oh, yeah yeah yeah yeah They're marching with signs They're standing in lines, yeah Protesting your right to turn out the light In their lives Here's the deal Accept it if you will They're coming on strong It's their time to live My old friend I thought you knew by now You gotta make way for the young folks Oh, yeah yeah yeah yeah You may not like it, but I've got to tell you (you may not like it) Gotta tell you (yeah, I gotta tell you) Oh, oh, oh you'd better make way You gotta make way You'd better make way For the young folks (Ooh yeah) You may not like it, but I've got to tell you Gotta tell you (I got to tell you) You'd better make way You gotta make way You better make way For the young's folks (Ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah) DuckToller, PYP and semente 2 1 Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 A couple of words by Greta Thunberg from Berlin on the occasion of 'Fridays for Future' kick off. Utrecht, NL, today. The first banner says 'System change not climate change' and I personally wholeheartedly agree. Glad to see an animated discussion here, I regret I don't even have time right now to read all the posts.. semente 1 Link to comment
semente Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 On 9/24/2021 at 8:50 PM, sphinxsix said: A couple of words by Greta Thunberg from Berlin on the occasion of 'Fridays for Future' kick off. She hits the nail in the head. Covid proved that (most) people are willing to accept change in an emergency situation. The change must come from the gorvernments, and it is a matter of politics and economic ideology whether or not governments are willing to make new rules. But governments in democratic countries are elected by people so ultimately it's down to voters to make change happen. PYP 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
PYP Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 3 hours ago, semente said: The change must come from the gorvernments, Yes, plural: federal, state, municipal and community. If voters made this a priority, the politicians would need to show results. For voters to make this a priority, they need good information and people like Greta who organize large groups and keep the issue in front of us. It is impossible, however, to wade into the aftermath of the destruction caused by a hurricane, etc. and say in essence: this is caused by our choices and we need to change now. But the poor people who have been affected, surely re-assess whether to re-build or leave, and governments then need to make the difficult decision about whether they encourage re-building in the same area or help move populations to safer places or, when possible, protect that area from further destruction. Many difficult choices now and in the near future. And politics has become a fundraising task instead of developing leaders who can step up when needed. semente 1 Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Popular Post Iving Posted September 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2021 4 hours ago, semente said: The change must come from the gorvernments ... governments in democratic countries are elected by people so ultimately it's down to voters to make change happen. 50 minutes ago, PYP said: Yes, plural: federal, state, municipal and community. If voters made this a priority, the politicians would need to show results. For voters to make this a priority, they need good information and people like Greta who organize large groups and keep the issue in front of us. And politics has become a fundraising task instead of developing leaders who can step up when needed. Climate change and nuclear weapons are two sides of the same coin, having a crucial thing in common. The cause of all wars is nations. Also - national self-interest determines energy policy. National self-interest gets in the way of the greater good as argued in my last post. The fast track to nuclear disarmament and green energy control is a world weapons and energy policy. That policy would have to be policed. The policing would have to be discharged by a global commissioner. Whether you call it world government or not, that commissioner's authority must come from somewhere. Let's call it the rubber stamp of the international community. The League of Nations for international co-operation was established in 1920 in the aftermath of The Great War. It was succeeded by the United Nations in 1946. No matter what explanations may be advanced for the failure or political toothlessness of these entities, there is a dignified precedent for international co-operation/cohesion for the purpose of preventing the unthinkable. This is the only way climate disaster can be averted. Everybody knows this is true. People in various arenas and domains have a variety of motives and reasons for biting their tongue. But we are what we talk about. PYP and semente 2 Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 On 9/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, Priaptor said: Most of the absurd ideas involve penalizing with progressive and devastating taxes on those countries who are most cooperative. What about companies which are not interested in cooperation in the name of our future.? On 9/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, Priaptor said: With a perfect grid, if the US converted all cars and light trucks to EV we would reduce CO2 by 1.3% at most worldwide. Taking into account that it would be 1.3% in the global scale it's not so little IMO. Beside that according to my knowledge the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities in the United States is from burning fossil fuels for electricity, heat, and transportation, the non electric cars are definitely a part of this and not so small one.. On 9/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, Priaptor said: Over the last 3 decades greenhouse emissions have increased 11.5% worldwide More than that, much more.. On 9/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, Priaptor said: In order to save money on manufacturing, we now ship our manufacturing to the biggest polluters in the world, namely China, India, Indonesia and Viet Nam. You've omitted the USA and Russia which both are in the top 4 polluters and are the top 2 polluters per capita. On 9/23/2021 at 10:50 PM, Priaptor said: bring back manufacturing to those locations with cleaner manufacturing indices or demand change in those that are indeed doing the biggest polluting. It's also about transport being the source of 15% CO2 emissions worldwide. https://www.c2es.org/content/international-emissions/ I would agree with many points you made. And add voting responsible, climate conscious politicians, they really matter On 9/23/2021 at 11:08 PM, PYP said: Then we vote for the folks who do not ignore the problem and try to address it. +1 of course! On 9/23/2021 at 11:08 PM, PYP said: What can be done about China? Or Russia.? Important question. On 9/23/2021 at 11:26 PM, Priaptor said: What can we do about China and others? IMO both political and if necessary economic pressure strong enough to be efficient and with readiness to take the consequences of both. On 9/23/2021 at 11:26 PM, Priaptor said: Even more absurd than Kerry's rationale for flying a private jet followed by a huge limousine to a climate talk. C'mon, it's just a propaganda.. this is much more meaningless than millions of people switching to EVs.. Let's let him/them travel whichever way they want provided they do the right things in a wider perspective. On 9/23/2021 at 11:34 PM, DuckToller said: Would you/we / Europe/USA achieve climate goals with 100% inbound production? I doubt it. No way. On 9/24/2021 at 9:27 AM, semente said: Dealing with the climate crisis will require a change in paradigm. Definitely! IMO covid is already a lesson which should've said a thing or two to people on this planet, e.g. about the need of just, solidary one world simply because we all are just vegetables in the same soup.. Has the lesson been learnt.? I'm not sure.. On 9/24/2021 at 9:27 AM, semente said: Where there’s a will... I've found some risky statements in this book but I hope/believe this one is true.. That's it from me for now, gotta go. semente 1 Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 It is eye opening to see that so many have so much faith in governments to fix problems they largely created and are never held accountable for. By no means am I naively supporting unregulated corporate entities to fix things, as our latest richest companies such as FB, AAPL, NVDA, GOOG, AMZN, etc. demonstrate by not only their reliance and desire to engage and support the biggest polluters in the world BUT that being said, it is like blaming the current healthcare issues on United Health, etc. who just followed the trail of money government lays out for them. While I appreciate Jud's perspective, it is also important that we recognize, not just here in America but everywhere in the world, that no group of people can be so manipulated and wield so much power while being so influenced by so little money (relatively) than our politicians. While I don't want to change topics, I do wish to use healthcare as the perfect example of how government is influenced, bought off and uses propaganda to enrich some at the cost of so many. LBJ claimed when signing Medicare in 1965 that "if this thing costs more than 500 million dollars I will look like one damn fool". Well JUST 55 years later, this boondoggle now costs over 1 trillion, there is more dislocation of our healthcare system than ever as a result of government created cost shifting and price fixing while payment to caregivers have not only stagnated over the last 30 years, but have decreased on a COLA basis while "administrative costs" (another term for payoffs to corporate healthcare) have increased 17x over the same period of time. Obama admitted to reigning in 15% fraud and abuse as a method to fund Obamacare. A deal was cut with the big insurers to get paid up front for Obamacare but pay later; guess what, that "pay later" never happened and all we saw was a further dislocations of markets. Again, this is not a left right thing; RBRVS instituted under Reagan/Bush, Gingrich's SGR, Bush's DRA act, Trump's surprise billing and so many more I choose not to list have done NOTHING to enhance care and has done everything to cause market dislocations. So how are they held accountable? They aren't. In fact, they convince an easily malleable and uneducated public that they the Gov't who created the problem is here to fix it, my favorite and the clapping seals called the general public bark their approval . LMAO. Such a clear case as THE ESTEMED Bob Menedez of NJ not only walks free because of a hung jury but is never tried again and continues to preach morality to the rest of us. If I remember correctly, his bribes were a few flights to S. America, hookers and some cash; look at the amazing influence that bought Salomen Melgen, MD. Remember, that was a small one compared to the really big ones Back to environment. The same occurs when huge multi-billion $ corporations hold so much sway with so little money (relatively speaking) over those who can influence so much that this is what you get and we, the people, discuss the micro stuff which never has any real significant influence rather than the macro picture such as the massive dirty manufacturing footprint that really is so much easier to fix than the small stuff. Market dislocations by bad policy and bribes, etc. has led us to this. I understand the perspective of "well I can only do what I can as an individual" but that is no excuse for dismissing the root cause of what and why we are we are. Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 44 minutes ago, Priaptor said: It is eye opening to see that so many have so much faith in governments to fix problems they largely created and are never held accountable for. Wanna fix it without governments.? You seem to have really moved to the left... 😉 I used to sympathize with anarchosyndicalism in my youth, not sure the world will go in this direction anymore though 😎 Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: What about companies which are not interested in cooperation in the name of our future.? Taking into account that it would be 1.3% in the global scale it's not so little IMO. Beside that according to my knowledge the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions from human activities in the United States is from burning fossil fuels for electricity, heat, and transportation, the non electric cars are definitely a part of this and not so small one.. More than that, much more.. You've omitted the USA and Russia which both are in the top 4 polluters and are the top 2 polluters per capita. It's also about transport being the source of 15% CO2 emissions worldwide. https://www.c2es.org/content/international-emissions/ I would agree with many points you made. And add voting responsible, climate conscious politicians, they really matter +1 of course! Or Russia.? Important question. IMO both political and if necessary economic pressure strong enough to be efficient and with readiness to take the consequences of both. C'mon, it's just a propaganda.. this is much more meaningless than millions of people switching to EVs.. Let's let him/them travel whichever way they want provided they do the right things in a wider perspective. No way. Definitely! IMO covid is already a lesson which should've said a thing or two to people on this planet, e.g. about the need of just, solidary one world simply because we all are just vegetables in the same soup.. Has the lesson been learnt.? I'm not sure.. I've found some risky statements in this book but I hope/believe this one is true.. That's it from me for now, gotta go. First let me correct the facts of what I said. It is the USA who has increased emissions according to some by 11%. In fact, there is great evidence to show that since 2005 USA greenhouse gas emissions have decreased to 1990 levels so the 11% is in fact much lower. As far as companies NOT wanting to cooperate, who are they? Companies such as Apple, etc. who want to increase margins to save you a couple of bucks on their iPhones while doing so at the expense of the environment by manufacturing their stuff by the biggest polluters and then using CO2 spewing transportation to deliver their goods? Those companies or are we going to to pigeonhole companies like Haliburton and the rest. I understand the desire to use the "per capita" argument because it is a manipulation of the data and proves a point that some want to prove. America, more than most, actually has been reducing their environmental footprint. IMHO not enough and clearly with some of the stupidest policies around, CA, being the showcase for that. Of course what the "per capita" argument hides, as it is such a good propagandizing tool is that since WWII by far, America had the largest manufacturing index for the world and even now, despite China, America still has the largest manufacturing index with a fraction of the pollution of China, whose much larger population will mitigate their "per capita" footprint. Of course, few developed countries have the geographical disparity of the US and another reason why the "per capita" comparisons don't tell the full story. Kind of difficult to compare the geographical disparity of Germany, France, England, etc. to America. We find similar propaganda as it pertains to "access to healthcare" in America where some love to propagandize the access being restricted to inner city socially economics underprivileged WHEN the real restriction of access and those most vulnerable are those who live furthest from healthcare because of the same geographical disparity. It would be absurd to assume that America could provide less polluting mass transit to this geographical disparate nation when doing so would actually increase emissions because it would serve so few and emit so much. Russia, ok include them. How about the EU's enabling of Russia, can we include them as well or do they get a pass. Yeah, they are dirty and hold them accountable economically. We have a funny perspective in this world. We like to hold some countries accountable through embargos for their political and/or terrorists actions yet no such activities occur to what some believe is our biggest concern, namely Global Warming. As to the political and economic thing, it is too broad of brush. Both are at fault and unless those who are in power are held accountable nothing will happen. We the people are so polarized that even when it comes to the environment, something "we the people" should cherish will take sides along political lines and ignore the elephant in the room. I don't have faith in man to ever wake up until of course its too late. Wait Kerry flying on a private plane spewing CO2 while his limo on standby spewing CO2 while he talks global warming is just "propaganda". LMAO. This is what I am talking about regarding political perspectives. If you can't recognize the hypocrisy and the absolute Marie Antoinette moment than you need to look harder. If we are going to depend on government leaders to lead do you NOT THINK their own acts should set the standards for those they govern? Do you really think that he or anyone should get a pass because in their minds, they deserve "offsets" because in their minds the good the do is worth more than what they pollute not just from their private jet but from their mouth? It is anything but propaganda. It is telling of the whole mess of those who govern with NO accountability and who are so easily bought off. The switching to EV by the general population I find interesting. Again, I am NOT against it but it does need to be put into perspective. It kind of reminds me of the draught mess in CA. Taking a short shower is nice because it may make you feel like you are doing something but it really is doing almost nothing. Same with "transportation". 29% of American CO2 comes from transportation. 60% of that comes from cars and light trucks. So if every American converted to EV with a PERFECT grid we could reduce global CO2 by just 2%. Also, we need to recognize that it takes 30,000 miles of driving an EV before its benefits outweigh ICE detriments to the environment so a perfect grid really only reduces global CO2 emissions by 1.4%. All it takes is a month of manufacturing by China to mitigate all the benefit of converting every light truck and car in America to an EV with a perfect grid. Which of course brings up the next case of real "renewable" energy which is another fabrication since so much of it is hydroelectric, the further towards the equator, the more the methane (as well as ecological disasters which isn't counted). We count CO2 in 80 year cycles. Unfortunately methane has 88 times the greenhouse effect as CO2 but because it takes 10 years to convert to CO2 its effect is mitigate when using the 80 year cycle which really underestimates the effect. Personally, I like to recognize the reality, they hypocrisy and the future. Our current micro perspective and vilification of those who can make little change is counterproductive to what is really necessary which few have the spine to enact or even just recognize. Link to comment
semente Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, Priaptor said: It is eye opening to see that so many have so much faith in governments to fix problems they largely created and are never held accountable for. By no means am I naively supporting unregulated corporate entities to fix things, as our latest richest companies such as FB, AAPL, NVDA, GOOG, AMZN, etc. demonstrate by not only their reliance and desire to engage and support the biggest polluters in the world BUT that being said, it is like blaming the current healthcare issues on United Health, etc. who just followed the trail of money government lays out for them. Governments are elected to serve the people but abide to the will of big money corporations. So we need different, honest, competent people in Government. But many voters seem too irrationally attached to parties (as if they were football clubs), and quite a few are suspicious of coalitions. After the most recent financial crisis Icelanders arrested the bankers and the government and took control of country. It may not have had the perfect outcome but it could be a way of balancing the powers. But it requires civilized and educated populations and competent and honest people willing to come forth and occupy the leading roles. Not many countries would survive such a revolution and the result would be chaos. PYP 1 "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: Wanna fix it without governments.? You seem to have really moved to the left... 😉 That is what you got out of my rant? LMAO. No, what my comments claim is that the current corrupt government can and will not fix it. When the leader of the free world admits that there is 15% fraud in abuse in the largest social program they oversee, I think there is a problem. When laws are passed that benefit some at the expense of most there is a problem. When laws that others have to abide by, like insider trading or failure to pay taxes weaponized against some while those in power skate free, there is something wrong. When a 2 trillion dollar company can buy off a politician with just a couple of hundred grand worth of influence there is something wrong. Lastly, when, like in American, we have these appointed bodies failing to really be held accountable under the Delegation of Powers clause, it is literally a setup for fraud and abuse which has literally spiraled out of control with ZERO accountability except for some scam hearing for the clapping seals in front of the computers while nothing is ever done. Link to comment
semente Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, Priaptor said: As far as companies NOT wanting to cooperate, who are they? Companies such as Apple, etc. who want to increase margins to save you a couple of bucks on their iPhones while doing so at the expense of the environment by manufacturing their stuff by the biggest polluters and then using CO2 spewing transportation to deliver their goods? Those companies or are we going to to pigeonhole companies like Haliburton and the rest. Ok so we now have a couple of tools we can use: - our vote - our buying choices Perhaps the answer is to stop buying from Apple. In fact the answer may have to come to reducing consumption and increasing corporate profit tax and hunt down tax evasion and shut down tax heavens to re-balance the scales. US and European governments have been invading countries and toppling regimes for the good of their patrons, the big corporations. Perhaps, through the UN, they should instead be imposing sanctions on regimes/states that harbour money laundry and tax evasion. "Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256) Link to comment
Priaptor Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, semente said: Governments are elected to serve the people but abide to the will of big money corporations. So we need different, honest, competent people in Government. But many voters seem too irrationally attached to parties (as if they were football clubs), and quite a few are suspicious of coalitions. After the most recent financial crisis Icelanders arrested the bankers and the government and took control of country. It may not have had the perfect outcome but it could be a way of balancing the powers. But it requires civilized and educated populations and competent and honest people willing to come forth and occupy the leading roles. Not many countries would survive such a revolution and the result would be chaos. Yeah, Iceland did do some good. Agree. America has become a joke politically as has most of the world. The internet has made people dumb not smarter. They have become the copy and paste fact checkers rather than doing some primary research into the aspects of what they claim to be experts in. One thing Iceland is NOW facing though, ironically, is the potential total instability of their infrastructure and environment as these trillion dollar corporations try to manipulate their government and people with the big $$ of large cloud warehouses that Iceland appears to be "perfect" for. Link to comment
Recommended Posts