From 0 to Xeon/AL/Roon Server in 2 days

[luisma]

Hi Bob, did you had a chance to compare the DCATX adapter plus 200W LPS and the 400W directly connected LPS?

Have anyone tried the HDPLEX chassis + DCATX + JS2 or PH SR7 LPS? and compare this with the proprietary HDPLEX solution?

 

[austinpop]

42 minutes ago, luisma said:

Hi Bob, did you had a chance to compare the DCATX adapter plus 200W LPS and the 400W directly connected LPS?

Have anyone tried the HDPLEX chassis + DCATX + JS2 or PH SR7 LPS? and compare this with the proprietary HDPLEX solution?

 

 

Roy is currently powering his 8700K server with 2 SR7 rails: a 19V rail powering an HDPlex DC-ATX converter, and a separate 12V rail powering the CPU (EPS).

 

On 5/24/2019 at 2:43 PM, romaz said:

Even with the 8700K server powered by an HDPlex 400W ATX LPSU and with no special clocking outside of my tX-USBultra, I prefer the big server to the i7 NUC but as I have figured out a way to independently power both the 8700K CPU and ATX motherboard (using a DC-ATX converter) with SR7 rails, the i7 NUC has now been officially retired.

 

He finds this combo far exceeds the HDPlex 400W ATX LPS, even though this has separate rails for the ATX (3.3, 5, and 12V) and EPS (12V).

[luisma]

Thanks Rajiv, that makes sense and correlates which what I would assume in terms of SQ, appreciate it 

 

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, luisma said:

Hi Bob, did you had a chance to compare the DCATX adapter plus 200W LPS and the 400W directly connected LPS?

Have anyone tried the HDPLEX chassis + DCATX + JS2 or PH SR7 LPS? and compare this with the proprietary HDPLEX solution?

 

The direct HDPlex 400 is better to my ear.  Less harsh. 

 

The js2 is 12 v and will not run the dc to atx

 

i do not have an sr7

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Roy is currently powering his 8700K server with 2 SR7 rails: a 19V rail powering an HDPlex DC-ATX converter, and a separate 12V rail powering the CPU (EPS).

 

 

He finds this combo far exceeds the HDPlex 400W ATX LPS, even though this has separate rails for the ATX (3.3, 5, and 12V) and EPS (12V).

 

Do you know how many Amps is Roy's SR7 EPS (12V) rail? And does he have TurboBoost enabled on the 8700K? 

[bobfa]

I have changed my system design and I am now running this Xeon based system as my server/streamer directly connected to my Kii Three Speakers.  The server is powered by an HDPLEX 400 supply.  The Kii Control is fed via USB using a Ghent JSSG USB cable to the ISORegn and USBPCP.  I am running the ISORegen on my LPS1.2 power supply.

 

The software on the Xeon is Eyphony OS with their Stylus player. The music is stored on my NAS and there is a test copy of the data on a spinning disk connected to the server.  I am A/B ing the system to see which sounds better.  I have a “fancy” USB card on the way from China to see how that works.

 

[bobfa]

I have made some changes to my system and I will document part of them on this thread.  I am going to update the lead page with the changes to the server as it has evolved to eliminate the things I migrated to both hardware and software!  

 

In the most recent systems change I have replaced my ISORegen with an SoTM txUSBultra from Audio Sensibility, with their full set of mods.  I am feeding it from my HDPLEX 400 through an LPS1.2 for power.  I am using an Ghent JSSG360 USB between the server and the txUSBultra and a Lush2 on the output to the Kii Control.

 

 

[bobfa]

Today I made another change to the system.  The server has a fiber ethernet cable to the main switch in my basement.  I was using a generic FMC from FS.COM and today I replaced it with the Sonore Optical Module.  I am using the same cables I had before. The GHENT JSSG360 Ethernet cable between the server and the FMC.  I will test with the Sonore provided short cable also.  I just wanted to change one thing at a time.

 

So here is the current USB setup with the SoTM and the Lush^2 cable:

 

 

Here is a shot of the Sonos Optical Module before I put it into the system:

 

**Note I am using Single Mode Bi-directional fiber cabling so I have a different SFP module. **

 

Bob

 

[Holzohr]

@bobfa

Hi Bob, what happened to your Element H card. Do you still have it?

 

Mario

[bobfa]

20 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

@bobfa

Hi Bob, what happened to your Element H card. Do you still have it?

 

Mario

It is in the server.  I am switching between it and the USB on the motherboard.  I am not ready to talk about that.  

[Holzohr]

I think I understand you. My "problem" is that AL and Euphony gives rt priority to the usb ports from the mainboard by default. Imho this doesn't seem to make any sense when you have a PCIe card like the Element H.

[Nenon]

@bobfa Bob - I just checked your latest changes. Thank you for the updates.

Can't resist to make a comment that if you haven't tried the new Apacer ECC memory, I would highly recommend you do so.

Also, since your 32GB Optane is $62, I am assuming it is the MEMPEK1W032GAXT version. I had that and compared to the M10 model (MEMPEK1J032GA01). The MEMPEK1J032GA01 sounded better in my system, but the difference was a lot less than the impact of the Apacer wide-range temperature Apacer ECC DDR4 RAM.

[baconbrain]

13 hours ago, bobfa said:

Today I made another change to the system.  The server has a fiber ethernet cable to the main switch in my basement.  I was using a generic FMC from FS.COM and today I replaced it with the Sonore Optical Module.  I am using the same cables I had before. The GHENT JSSG360 Ethernet cable between the server and the FMC.  I will test with the Sonore provided short cable also.  I just wanted to change one thing at a time.

 

So here is the current USB setup with the SoTM and the Lush^2 cable:

 

 

Here is a shot of the Sonos Optical Module before I put it into the system:

 

**Note I am using Single Mode Bi-directional fiber cabling so I have a different SFP module. **

 

Bob

 

 

Bob,

 

Perhaps a bit off topic, but what is your impression of changes to the USB input (via USBUltra, etc.) to the Kii Control? I have heard comments that it is fairly impervious to USB input enhancements ...

 

 

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, baconbrain said:

 

Bob,

 

Perhaps a bit off topic, but what is your impression of changes to the USB input (via USBUltra, etc.) to the Kii Control? I have heard comments that it is fairly impervious to USB input enhancements ...

 

 

I can demonstrate very simply that various "USB Sources" make a significant difference in sound.  G.I.G.O.  !!  The Kii's will let you hear what you are feeding them.  I think they also "elevate" things that are not that good.  

 

I have a couple of longer posts headed out soon.  They will be on the Massive thread in order to keep this cleaner.

 

RJF 

[bobfa]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

@bobfa Bob - I just checked your latest changes. Thank you for the updates.

Can't resist to make a comment that if you haven't tried the new Apacer ECC memory, I would highly recommend you do so.

Also, since your 32GB Optane is $62, I am assuming it is the MEMPEK1W032GAXT version. I had that and compared to the M10 model (MEMPEK1J032GA01). The MEMPEK1J032GA01 sounded better in my system, but the difference was a lot less than the impact of the Apacer wide-range temperature Apacer ECC DDR4 RAM.

I need to find a source for the RAM and make sure it will work with my Motherboard, etc..  It is on the list.....

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, Holzohr said:

I think I understand you. My "problem" is that AL and Euphony gives rt priority to the usb ports from the mainboard by default. Imho this doesn't seem to make any sense when you have a PCIe card like the Element H.

For me it is about time to try the different ports to see if there is a difference.  Then evaluate that!  The element card was in there for the USB disk drive.  I was actually thinking about taking it out to reduce stuff in the case.  I am looking at some new RAM and I may open-er-up and do both at the same time.  I have to source the ECC RAM first.

 

 

[Nenon]

I organized the Apacer group buy for NUC7i7DNKE in the Novel thread. Since then, a few people asked me for ECC RAM, and I am getting some of those two. Ping me on PM if interested, so we don't go OT. 

[rickca]

5 hours ago, Nenon said:

Also, since your 32GB Optane is $62, I am assuming it is the MEMPEK1W032GAXT version. I had that and compared to the M10 model (MEMPEK1J032GA01). The MEMPEK1J032GA01 sounded better in my system

That's weird.  It's only supposed to be a packaging difference.  MEMPEK1J032GA01 is retail and MEMPEK1J032GA01 is bulk.  Anyway, I'll trust your experience and order the MEMPEK1J032GA01.

 

It's unfortunate that Intel cancelled the M15.

[Nenon]

MEMPEK1W032GAXT is not the M10 version. 

I was comparing MEMPEK1W032GAXT to MEMPEK1J032GA01. 

[Dutch]

Intel lists a lower standby power usage for the M10. It’s more expensive everywhere too. Also found this in a FAQ: https://www.intel.me/content/www/xr/ar/support/articles/000024018/memory-and-storage/intel-optane-memory.html

 

Are there any differences between Intel® Optane™ memory module (Desktop platform supported only) and Intel® Optane™ memory M10 (Desktop and Mobile platform support)?

For 7th and 8th Gen Intel® Core™-i mobile platforms, you need the Intel® Optane™ memory M10 modules, with the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology 15.9 or later driver. The new M10 modules improve power management support, allowing mobile designs to use this technology. This technology (M10 module) can be used in either Desktop or Mobile Intel® Optane™ memory enabled platform

[rickca]

54 minutes ago, Dutch said:

The new M10 modules improve power management support, allowing mobile designs to use this technology.

Now I remember.  The original Optane memory didn't support low power states, but the M10 does.

[novaca]

Back to power again. Have you tried to compare HDPlex 200W to DC-ATX with HDPlex 400W to DC-ATX, ie HDPlex 400W not directly to the board? I know it doesn't make sense, but I'd like to see if the improvement is due to the difference of HDPlex200 vs HDPlex400, or the removal of DC-ATX. If DC-ATX (HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX) would be "usable" with better LPS, or is it really the weakest part...

[bobfa]

5 hours ago, novaca said:

Back to power again. Have you tried to compare HDPlex 200W to DC-ATX with HDPlex 400W to DC-ATX, ie HDPlex 400W not directly to the board? I know it doesn't make sense, but I'd like to see if the improvement is due to the difference of HDPlex200 vs HDPlex400, or the removal of DC-ATX. If DC-ATX (HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX) would be "usable" with better LPS, or is it really the weakest part...

I have not done that.  I am doubtful that the difference between the HDPLEX 400 and HDPLEX 200 driving their DC-ATX converter would make any difference.  I have no plans to try this at this time.

[latenz]

On 2/16/2019 at 4:51 AM, bobfa said:

Music storage is an interesting problem.  I read through the threads on AS about data storage and to be honest, without some summary there is too much data to compile into a “best practice.”   In my testing with a different NAS and a different server than I am running now, the NAS did not sound “as good.” I do not want the drive inside the server, as indications are that internal storage degrades sound quality. 

Hi

after all... the nas was a practical solution? Not a better sounding one? Have you tried internal storage in the one box solution. In theory it should disturb the sound but on the other hand you need a perfect network with perfect cables...

thanks for you’re inside knowledge...

 

best

[bobfa]

9 hours ago, latenz said:

Hi

after all... the nas was a practical solution? Not a better sounding one? Have you tried internal storage in the one box solution. In theory it should disturb the sound but on the other hand you need a perfect network with perfect cables...

thanks for you’re inside knowledge...

 

best

In further testing I was unable to reproduce the results from before.  I was testing with an older Sonic Transporter and small Synology 416Slim NAS.    A few days ago I had been running with a different systems design (still shown in my configuration on my profile.    In my custom server I tried putting an M.2 SSD inside and it was noisy.  I have an external Spinning Drive that has a separate power supply.  I have done A/B testing and could not hear the difference.  

 

I had stopped maintaining the external drive in favor of the NAS for simplicity of data management.  I am in the process of making some other changes and that HD is back in my system. I have another article in the works about where I am today.  

 

I am not sure that there are perfect cables or perfect networks.  I run enterprise networking hardware to keep up my skills in that realm and have the reliability I need (Ubiquity).