Isolation feet for Audio Gear

[wdw]

We don't have a forum for Isolation/Support equipment so am posting here.  

I recently installed a series of ISoAcoustics Orea isolation footers below my Devialet equipment.  (integrated DAC/Pre/Amp in a milled aluminum case)  

Due to the extremely rigid milled enclosure of the Devialet I had limited expectations that these footers would offer much, if any improvement, but the opposite was clearly audible without much needed for back and forth A/B comparisons.  Sound was more energetic with sharper musical definition between massed instruments and, surprisingly, cleaner and more articulate bass lines.

IsoAcoustics is a Canadian firm which has, historically, served the Pro market and are now moving into the home audio market and happily their price points are quite sane.  Not the range of the Ted Denny magic bean stuff.  They also make speaker footers and are now releasing set for a series of Titan footers for heavier speakers such as B&W and Magico.  I've used the Indigo at the base of the lower D440 and the Bronze in-between the two units.  The Bronze sells for $69 CAD and $50 USD with three required as a minimum.

I highly recommend that you have a listen if you have the opportunity .  I am confident they offer improvements.  Still surprised that mechanical isolation of relatively massive electronics can produce a more coherent sound.  

 

Link below:

 

http://www.isoacoustics.com

[Blake]

Warren, have you compared these IsoAcoustic footers to any other footers in your system?

[wdw]

22 minutes ago, Blake said:

Warren, have you compared these IsoAcoustic footers to any other footers in your system?

 

I did have a fairly extensive set of Sort Kones sprinkled throughout my system but they never did offer the level of improvement the Orea have.  It was immediately obvious to my wife and me that these little guys were a very clear improvement.  At their price point there is so little to lose if you give 'em a try.  On line at Amazon and Cruthfield...in Canada, Audiow3.com

I am confident the solutions offered by IsoAcoustics are more highly engineered and tested when compared to the various audiophile offerings. 

Check out their site and some of the YouTube videos.  These guys are data based engineers, no magic dust nor unobtanium materials used.

I am truly interested in their new Titan series for my Magicos.

[rando]

Have you given the Barry Diament air/roller bearing system a try?

[wdw]

4 hours ago, rando said:

Have you given the Barry Diament air/roller bearing system a try?

 

No haven’t but there are shared modalities....well kinda.....maybe !  😌

[Axial]

I like their look, their big affordability factor, their Canadian heritage. 

They are worth trying them IMO, worth comparing with cheaper (squash balls) and much more expensive ...

 

They look like hi class record weights...clamps. 

[wdw]

27 minutes ago, Axial said:

I like their look, their big affordability factor, their Canadian heritage. 

They are worth trying them IMO, worth comparing with cheaper (squash balls) and much more expensive ...

 

They look like hi class record weights...clamps. 

 

No clamps...two outer rings of stainless steel with some kind of internal elastomeric surfaces of varying density which, I assume, do the work of absorbing/translating the energy from the device at hand...each end has a rubber concave surface which does seem to attach easily to each surface, top and bottom.  Smart mofos.

[Blackmorec]

Hi wdw,

Just like to point out that the sound changes you get from footers of any kind depend entirely on what the treated device, in this case Devialet amps are sitting on. If they are sitting on something resonant and highly coloured the changes will go in one direction. If on the other hand they are sitting on resonance controlled shelves of a optimised rack with properly engineered vibration grounding and isolation you’ll get entirely different results. In one case you may get solid improvements, in another you may just get exaggerated frequency extremes, depending on how the footers interact with their support base. 

 

[wdw]

11 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi wdw,

Just like to point out that the sound changes you get from footers of any kind depend entirely on what the treated device, in this case Devialet amps are sitting on. If they are sitting on something resonant and highly coloured the changes will go in one direction. If on the other hand they are sitting on resonance controlled shelves of a optimised rack with properly engineered vibration grounding and isolation you’ll get entirely different results. In one case you may get solid improvements, in another you may just get exaggerated frequency extremes, depending on how the footers interact with their support base. 

 

 

I believe your comments may be self-evident although your scenario seem to offer only two conditions....one dire, the other positive.

I know the Orea siting on a solid table but not an “optimized rack with properly engineered vibration...” are producing extraordinary improvements in my system.  Sure there will always be degrees of improvement in any setup but do not hear any of the “exaggerated frequency extremes” predicted in your post

[fas42]

Isolation feet, all sorts of fancy support mechanisms, are just means of post-engineering electronics components that are not built well enough to be insensitive to vibration effects, whether internally or externally originating.

 

Best solution is to find equipment that doesn't change its sound, irrespective of how it's supported or stabilised - it's "robust".

 

Next approach is to 'fix' what you have, by adding those isolation feet, etc, that best match the needs of the particular components - this is very much trial and error; I can't see a way of ensuring that the first item used to tweak with will be the "best" - only by going inside the component and working out where it's sensitive will the best 'solution' be arrived at.

[Ralf11]

do you have a list of "equipment that doesn't change its sound"  ???

[wdw]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Isolation feet, all sorts of fancy support mechanisms, are just means of post-engineering electronics components that are not built well enough to be insensitive to vibration effects, whether internally or externally originating.

 

Best solution is to find equipment that doesn't change its sound, irrespective of how it's supported or stabilised - it's "robust".

 

Next approach is to 'fix' what you have, by adding those isolation feet, etc, that best match the needs of the particular components - this is very much trial and error; I can't see a way of ensuring that the first item used to tweak with will be the "best" - only by going inside the component and working out where it's sensitive will the best 'solution' be arrived at.

 

Often wondered about all these threads and comments that appear to hold your opinions in some disbelief or mockery but not having read any of your posts I merely wondered why but in your response above I can easily why.  

Have you ever seen the make-up, internal composition and milled chassis of the Devialet?

If you had you couldn't have made your statement with a straight face.  Clearly my wife and I were astounded by the improvement, as it was unexpected in some sympathy to your position above, but never would have had your particular conceit on the subject. 

IMHO you are clearly wrong on this one.

[Blackmorec]

Actually I haven’t come across a piece of electronic hi-if gear that doesn’t repond in some way or another to its support, regardless of how good quality it may be. That’s because vibration is ubiquitous and has 2 sources; external floor and hi-fi-furniture borne and internally generated from things like transformers, power supplies, motors etc. 

In order to treat both types of vibration, the component needs to be isolated from external vibration and provided with a grounding path for internal vibration, 2 measures seemingly in conflict with one another. The efficacy of something like footers depend on 4 things; how well the original suppport isolates and grounds and how well the footer works in the same regard. If the original support structure does a poor job at both and you use a footer that say only isolates, you will hear an improvement. If on the other hand your original support does a good job at both and you insert the same footer it will increase isolation while actually preventing grounding and will make SQ worse. So results depend very much on where you’re starting from in terms of vibration control.

How does something simultaneously isolate and ground? Take a Symposium shelf as an example. The shelf is multi layer, starting on the outside with materials that closely match the hard surfaces of support structures and components. This provides vibration with a well matched impedance to ensure both external and internal vibrations pass into the shelf. Once in the shelf the vibration encounters increasingly ‘lossy’ layers which convert vibration into work and thereby heat. So very little vibration can pass through the shelf from support to component whilst providing a ‘ground’ for internal vibration to be removed from the component. 

Before anyone buys footers, they should consider how well their current set up isolates and grounds vibration and they really ought to get hold of footers on a trial basis  to evaluate exactly what they add or subtract in terms of sound quality.  

Personally I have read many rave reviews for footers that in my system failed to deliver because my rack had already taken care of both isolation and grounding. That’s not to say they didn’t change sound quality, the did, just not in a good way. 

[fas42]

9 hours ago, wdw said:

 

Often wondered about all these threads and comments that appear to hold your opinions in some disbelief or mockery but not having read any of your posts I merely wondered why but in your response above I can easily why.  

Have you ever seen the make-up, internal composition and milled chassis of the Devialet?

If you had you couldn't have made your statement with a straight face.  Clearly my wife and I were astounded by the improvement, as it was unexpected in some sympathy to your position above, but never would have had your particular conceit on the subject. 

IMHO you are clearly wrong on this one.

 

And I remain intrigued by the general inability of audio enthusiasts to understand that the weakest area of a system will dictate what the sound will be - they wet their pants in excitement at the fact that the front plate is twice as thick, and completely ignore the fact that the looming(?!!) of the internal wiring is sloppy as hell ...

 

One electronic part touching the wrong thing, or allowed to vibrate too readily, can completely undo the value of $100,000s of kit - circuits are not impressed by the cost of the bits used everywhere; if something is not right, the sound won't be right.

 

I have heard far too much expensive gear sound appalling to be the slightest bit interested in the "status" of the items - if it sounds like crap, it is a crap system.

[Dutch]

I agree with WdW. Considering how its built one would not immediately think (not intuitively anyway) the Devialets would be very much susceptible to vibrations. But of course anything receives outside and generates its own vibrations. For any layman it’s impossible to say how/what, which and where.

 

The 250 Pro I own and it is very similar to the 220/440 model looks like this. Milled from a single alu block, no wires inside (none!), height 4 cm so relatively small caps and everything mounted on a PCB. The bottom plate is pure, thick copper.

 

Mine is on a ‘plate’ support containing layers of ‘sand like’ minerals, some type of EMI blocking plate, ceramics all encased in wood. Yet I have not experimented much on this subject. Reading WdW’s experience tells me I perhaps should!  

 

 

 

[ferenc]

On 1/25/2019 at 7:20 PM, wdw said:

We don't have a forum for Isolation/Support equipment so am posting here.  

I recently installed a series of ISoAcoustics Orea isolation footers below my Devialet equipment.  (integrated DAC/Pre/Amp in a milled aluminum case)  

Due to the extremely rigid milled enclosure of the Devialet I had limited expectations that these footers would offer much, if any improvement, but the opposite was clearly audible without much needed for back and forth A/B comparisons.  Sound was more energetic with sharper musical definition between massed instruments and, surprisingly, cleaner and more articulate bass lines.

IsoAcoustics is a Canadian firm which has, historically, served the Pro market and are now moving into the home audio market and happily their price points are quite sane.  Not the range of the Ted Denny magic bean stuff.  They also make speaker footers and are now releasing set for a series of Titan footers for heavier speakers such as B&W and Magico.  I've used the Indigo at the base of the lower D440 and the Bronze in-between the two units.  The Bronze sells for $69 CAD and $50 USD with three required as a minimum.

I highly recommend that you have a listen if you have the opportunity .  I am confident they offer improvements.  Still surprised that mechanical isolation of relatively massive electronics can produce a more coherent sound.  

 

Link below:

 

http://www.isoacoustics.com

 

 

I am using Isoacoustics stands and Pucks everywhere on my desktop system. They work very well, there is an Iso Puck set under the Roger Mayer pre/tape simulator. Usually even the most affordable Iso-Puck works very well, the only exception is the Holo Audio Spring 2, where the original footers works roughly the same way as the Pucks. No real difference with or without. 

 

 

[Blackmorec]

32 minutes ago, Dutch said:

I agree with WdW. Considering how its built one would not immediately think (not intuitively anyway) the Devialets would be very much susceptible to vibrations. But of course anything receives outside and generates its own vibrations. For any layman it’s impossible to say how/what, which and where.

 

The 250 Pro I own and it is very similar to the 220/440 model looks like this. Milled from a single alu block, no wires inside (none!), height 4 cm so relatively small caps and everything mounted on a PCB. The bottom plate is pure, thick copper.

 

Mine is on a ‘plate’ support containing layers of ‘sand like’ minerals, some type of EMI blocking plate, ceramics all encased in wood. Yet I have not experimented much on this subject. Reading WdW’s experience tells me I perhaps should!  

 

 

 

Devialet components include a DAC which of course requires a quartz crystal oscillator.  Depending on the oscillator’s design, vibration can cause increased jitter with the corresponding impact on sound quality. 

[Dutch]

Just now, Blackmorec said:

Devialet components include a DAC which of course requires a quartz crystal oscillator.  Depending on the oscillator’s design, vibration can cause increased jitter with the corresponding impact on sound quality. 

 

Correct, there’s several inside.

[wdw]

6 hours ago, Dutch said:

I agree with WdW. Considering how its built one would not immediately think (not intuitively anyway) the Devialets would be very much susceptible to vibrations. But of course anything receives outside and generates its own vibrations. For any layman it’s impossible to say how/what, which and where.

 

The 250 Pro I own and it is very similar to the 220/440 model looks like this. Milled from a single alu block, no wires inside (none!), height 4 cm so relatively small caps and everything mounted on a PCB. The bottom plate is pure, thick copper.

 

Mine is on a ‘plate’ support containing layers of ‘sand like’ minerals, some type of EMI blocking plate, ceramics all encased in wood. Yet I have not experimented much on this subject. Reading WdW’s experience tells me I perhaps should!  

 

 

 

 

Considering the low price of entry, I suggest you give them a try.   

[wdw]

6 hours ago, ferenc said:

 

 

I am using Isoacoustics stands and Pucks everywhere on my desktop system. They work very well, there is an Iso Puck set under the Roger Mayer pre/tape simulator. Usually even the most affordable Iso-Puck works very well, the only exception is the Holo Audio Spring 2, where the original footers works roughly the same way as the Pucks. No real difference with or without. 

 

 

 

Impressive....their YouTube videos showing the positive influence of these stands was compelling

[wdw]

7 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Devialet components include a DAC which of course requires a quartz crystal oscillator.  Depending on the oscillator’s design, vibration can cause increased jitter with the corresponding impact on sound quality. 

 

Bingo !

[Ralf11]

has anyone done a blind listening test on their electronics with/with out isolators??

 

(not cone speakers - just ny electronic device)

[wdw]

R

9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

has anyone done a blind listening test on their electronics with/with out isolators??

 

(not cone speakers - just ny electronic device)

 

Rumour has it that Stevie Wonder uses them in his studio😉.....wondered when you get around to this....no blind testing at this end

[fas42]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:35 AM, Ralf11 said:

do you have a list of "equipment that doesn't change its sound"  ???

 

As a serious answer, no. The industry doesn't take engineering components to a sufficient degree seriously enough, hence the abundance of audio forums and websites suggesting and selling a vast array of fixes, many of the Harry Potter standard.

 

An automotive design from the 1960's for an advanced vehicle would be laughed out of the room, if proposed today - because the standards considered acceptable back then now look ridiculous. But audio in many ways has not advanced for decades - because the required standards have barely moved. If a car is driven faster, over a tremendous variety of road conditions, people expect it to behave in a completely predictable way - not so for audio; rigs have 'fragile' sound, and nominally the better they are, the more sensitive they become to almost everything.

[wdw]

52 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

As a serious answer, no. The industry doesn't take engineering components to a sufficient degree seriously enough, hence the abundance of audio forums and websites suggesting and selling a vast array of fixes, many of the Harry Potter standard.

 

An automotive design from the 1960's for an advanced vehicle would be laughed out of the room, if proposed today - because the standards considered acceptable back then now look ridiculous. But audio in many ways has not advanced for decades - because the required standards have barely moved. If a car is driven faster, over a tremendous variety of road conditions, people expect it to behave in a completely predictable way - not so for audio; rigs have 'fragile' sound, and nominally the better they are, the more sensitive they become to almost everything.

 

I think you are mistaking these threads as an appeal to  authority and you are willing to take up that mantle...but, unfortunately, this has to be deserved/earned, my friend.