Official Qobuz Issues Thread

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

Not defending Qobuz, and I have no skin in this game...but did you consoder your network and/or system may be at fault here?

 

Selecting a track with that much lag seems a local (or ISP) network issue, not something I recognize even when using the Daphile Qobuz plugin that works for sure with some rerouting.

Mono? also not an issue I recognize playing Qobuz stereo files.

Almost mono, or such a collapsed sound stage enough to be mono. This is the result of noise artefacts entering the system interfering with timing of left and right information. The network is the same, i.e. router, switches, DX Filters Ether Regen, JCAT NET XE, renderer. Only difference is the modem where the Qobuz streaming comes from versus the local files on a Windows File Server. 

 

Can't do much about the cable modem, it belongs to the ISP, other than power it from a linear power supply and add a DX filter between it and the router. Currently the router and modem share the same Meanwell open cage type SMPS rated at 12V 10A. Will it help, not so sure, other than to add shielded network cables, more loop problems.

Mind's made up, Qobuz to the bin, already cancelled the free trial. 

[Audio Audio]

@David Craff would be nice if one could favour / follow labels, not only tracks, artist and releases.. 

 

Also: 

 

Light In The Attic Records

 

Light In The Attic

 

This is the same label, but does have two instances on Qobuz..

Light In The Attic Records

[111MilesToGo]

On 12/3/2022 at 1:36 AM, One and a half said:

Today's the day to try Qobuz on the free trial, never used Qobuz in streaming mode, only the occasional download.

 

I like 'Wednesday' soundtrack, classical, see how we go here. There are four tracks, longest is 2.22 minutes Paint it Black. Strange, the Original Soundtrack is some 48 tracks. 'Paint it Black' is almost mono.

 

OK, let's try something I know well, Sophie Milman, 'In the Moonlight - So Sorry', played back-to-back with the local library. Both are the 88.2 version. Now this track on the CD has sibilance on the 'so sorry', the Hires versions have tamed that somewhat, and the Qobuz version holds up to that. Dang this sounds like mono, the image is very much centred in the middle of the speakers with not much left and right at all. Man, this takes 10s or more to load the track, did I select the track ok on the ipad? Oh yes, it appears now multiple times in the playlist. I let the track run through, now disinterested as the end approaches.

 

Playing the local library, front and back image returns, with the fill between the centre and either side of the middle is working, harmonica on the left extreme and guitar on the right at the opening are working fine like before. Sophie's voice has the very fine vibrato, this is absent on Qobuz. Playback on the KEF LS50 in the office system with using the Limin app, U1 and the rest of the chain remaining the same. Listen to the whole track, entranced, then play the 'Album of the Evening', sounds lovely, engaging, totally listenable.

 

So, what's the point in listening to near mono, EUR149/year for this privilege/entertainment? C'est merde, if you ask me. Cancelling the free trial, not bothering.

 

9 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

Not defending Qobuz, and I have no skin in this game...but did you consoder your network and/or system may be at fault here?

 

Selecting a track with that much lag seems a local (or ISP) network issue, not something I recognize even when using the Daphile Qobuz plugin that works for sure with some rerouting.

Mono? also not an issue I recognize playing Qobuz stereo files.

 

7 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

That’s odd, I’ve bin listening to Qobuz for at least  10 hours this weekend and it was a joy. The soundstage was very wide actually, though I occasionally did notice a “stacking” of voice and instruments at the very center of the stage. But again this was occasionally with most of the times a wonderful positioning of instruments and singing. I do recoignize  the long loading times now and then. Can’t see the reason why since the pc is headless and avoid interrupting the listening session with a phone or tablet. It’s just a second or 5, it doesn’t bother me. 

 

6 hours ago, One and a half said:

Almost mono, or such a collapsed sound stage enough to be mono. This is the result of noise artefacts entering the system interfering with timing of left and right information. The network is the same, i.e. router, switches, DX Filters Ether Regen, JCAT NET XE, renderer. Only difference is the modem where the Qobuz streaming comes from versus the local files on a Windows File Server. 

 

Can't do much about the cable modem, it belongs to the ISP, other than power it from a linear power supply and add a DX filter between it and the router. Currently the router and modem share the same Meanwell open cage type SMPS rated at 12V 10A. Will it help, not so sure, other than to add shielded network cables, more loop problems.

Mind's made up, Qobuz to the bin, already cancelled the free trial. 

I‘m not affiliated with Qobuz or anybody else. My impressions are totally different from yours, like Lebouwsky said.

 

Maybe I have a little proposal for you. I saw your setup in your footer - quite a lot of things.

 

Maybe try Qobuz in a totally stripped down setup. Take your mobile phone, use it via mobile ISP not your home WiFi, plug in any IEM or even earbud, then run Qobuz. Maybe even MP3 is enough, otherwise switch to CD or hi-res quality in streaming (sure, ears your mobile data allowance). If you want to enhance that setting just a bit, hook a dongle DAC up to it (like DragonFly or any other). I‘m sure you will hear things very different from that ”quasi-mono“ you described.

[Lebouwsky]

It's definitely wise to determine what exactly is causing this problem  and I echo @111MilesToGo thoughts on simplifying the setup first. There are good reasons to not give up.

 

First of all, I‘m not affiliated with Qobuz as well, it's just that my listening experiences have become so much more engaging because of the new music I'm discovering continuously. And I encourage people to enjoy this luxary as well. It was not that long ago that I only used my own library. It mostly came down to listening to the same 50 albums again and again, spending quite some money on buying new music and maybe once or twice a month discovering a new gem. But the new album lost it's magic quite fast because of intesively repeating it by a lack of new input. Besides, deciding what to listen to next and actually searching (and skipping) through my library got me distracted from a relaxing experience.

 

With a quality music streaming service like Qobuz or Tidal I just let the autoplay go along, occasionaly manually interupting it when the algorithm is on the wrong path. Most of the time I just float on it and capture great songs passing by with my little Shazam landing net on my Iphone. The next day I look through the Shazam catch, which is new input for the next listening session.

 

And to encourage you and everybody else, my network is quite simple, with only a cheap netgear gs105se, powered by a simple switching power supply and some CAT6a cables in U/UTP (100% copper). I do own a quality diy server and a quality dac. When funds alow me to, I will experiment with a better network setup, but for now, this is more then good enough.

[Jud]

11 hours ago, One and a half said:

Almost mono, or such a collapsed sound stage enough to be mono. This is the result of noise artefacts entering the system interfering with timing of left and right information. The network is the same, i.e. router, switches, DX Filters Ether Regen, JCAT NET XE, renderer. Only difference is the modem where the Qobuz streaming comes from versus the local files on a Windows File Server. 

 

Can't do much about the cable modem, it belongs to the ISP, other than power it from a linear power supply and add a DX filter between it and the router. Currently the router and modem share the same Meanwell open cage type SMPS rated at 12V 10A. Will it help, not so sure, other than to add shielded network cables, more loop problems.

Mind's made up, Qobuz to the bin, already cancelled the free trial. 

As you say, your mind's made up, but very interesting how people/systems can result in such different impressions. I most often use Qobuz with Audirvana (another product on your bin list 🙂), and love the sound quality. The first artist I listened to was Cassandra Wilson, and the effect to me was jaw-dropping. I didn't know streamed music could sound as good as that. It was convincing enough that I've been a happy Qobuz subscriber since.
 

I wish you happiness in your musical journey, and hope you find a player and means of acquiring or streaming new music that gives you better results.

[athegn1]

I have a download location problem. I have replaced my Galaxy A7 with a Galaxy A53 5G. I have used Smartswitch to copy data, apps etc across. I also transferred the SD card from the A7  to the A53.

However Qobuz now has a problem; no downloads on SD card.

The path:-

SD card > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache

Is still there but Import cache is now empty. I guess this is because I had to re enter my login details on the new phone. So all downloads will need to be downloaded again;

On Internal storage there is:-

Internal storage > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache with the one test download I have tried.

But I cannot see how to amend Qobuz to make the download to:-

SD card > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache as I would like to.

I must have known a method in the past but cannot do it now.

Can anyone please advise before I start the long process of downloading all my music again?

[One and a half]

5 hours ago, Jud said:

As you say, your mind's made up, but very interesting how people/systems can result in such different impressions. I most often use Qobuz with Audirvana (another product on your bin list 🙂), and love the sound quality. The first artist I listened to was Cassandra Wilson, and the effect to me was jaw-dropping. I didn't know streamed music could sound as good as that. It was convincing enough that I've been a happy Qobuz subscriber since.
 

I wish you happiness in your musical journey, and hope you find a player and means of acquiring or streaming new music that gives you better results.

Things have turned around for Audirvana, since removing Bitdefender, V2x of Audirvana arriving and hosting on the same PC as the library files usability had improved where it is now the go to player.

 

Since the version is the Origin model, setting up the account for Qobuz is not in the DNA, cannot test this. The server is a busy one mainly intended for file serving other than audio, but results are quite good despite the racket.

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, 111MilesToGo said:

 

 

 

I‘m not affiliated with Qobuz or anybody else. My impressions are totally different from yours, like Lebouwsky said.

 

Maybe I have a little proposal for you. I saw your setup in your footer - quite a lot of things.

 

Maybe try Qobuz in a totally stripped down setup. Take your mobile phone, use it via mobile ISP not your home WiFi, plug in any IEM or even earbud, then run Qobuz. Maybe even MP3 is enough, otherwise switch to CD or hi-res quality in streaming (sure, ears your mobile data allowance). If you want to enhance that setting just a bit, hook a dongle DAC up to it (like DragonFly or any other). I‘m sure you will hear things very different from that ”quasi-mono“ you described.

I would agree to a stripped down model, the paths are already optimised for LAN based playback and this is working fine, the source has changed.

 

I'll check in the Lumin pages who uses the app with Qobuz to rule out irregularities with the software.

 

Sorry, a mobile phone and iem, nah, not gonna happen.

[111MilesToGo]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Sorry, a mobile phone and iem, nah, not gonna happen.

Sorry, my bad: Intended just as one temporary step for debugging, and help to see Qobuz in a different light. But your mind‘s made up …

[Chris Banner]

On 12/1/2022 at 8:41 PM, Chris Banner said:

There is a bug with the iOS app (specifically on iPad) whereby when you navigate back to the “now playing” screen, the display reverts to the “history” song list, requiring the user to constantly scroll to the right to display the now playing album art. Please can you fix this bug? Thanks!

Can someone from Qobuz please acknowledge this since I took the time to post about it. Their customer support is non-existent on any other platform, including their own. 

[AnotherSpin]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:00 AM, One and a half said:

Almost mono, or such a collapsed sound stage enough to be mono. This is the result of noise artefacts entering the system interfering with timing of left and right information. The network is the same, i.e. router, switches, DX Filters Ether Regen, JCAT NET XE, renderer. Only difference is the modem where the Qobuz streaming comes from versus the local files on a Windows File Server. 

 

Can't do much about the cable modem, it belongs to the ISP, other than power it from a linear power supply and add a DX filter between it and the router. Currently the router and modem share the same Meanwell open cage type SMPS rated at 12V 10A. Will it help, not so sure, other than to add shielded network cables, more loop problems.

Mind's made up, Qobuz to the bin, already cancelled the free trial. 

 

In my case replacing default power supply units with LPSU for each the router and ISP's optical cable to home network’s ethernet converter significantly improved the sound quality not only for Qobuz, but also for the computer's local files playback. 

[Norton]

On 12/4/2022 at 6:57 AM, Audio Audio said:

would be nice if one could favour / follow labels, not only tracks, artist and releases..

+1. “see the label” is a great feature which I use a lot.  Adding label to favourites would be a great addition and seem a relatively simple further step.

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

In my case replacing default power supply units with LPSU for each the router and ISP's optical cable to home network’s ethernet converter significantly improved the sound quality not only for Qobuz, but also for the computer's local files playback. 

Yes, the noise is 'getting in' via a backdoor, there are two pairs of DX filters arriving this week. First spot is between the modem and router, the next from router to file server.

[AnotherSpin]

3 hours ago, One and a half said:

Yes, the noise is 'getting in' via a backdoor, there are two pairs of DX filters arriving this week. First spot is between the modem and router, the next from router to file server.

It may help, however filters would be a problem of its own. BTW I am happy with Qobuz, sounds fine to me 🙂

[johey]

23 hours ago, athegn1 said:

I have a download location problem. I have replaced my Galaxy A7 with a Galaxy A53 5G. I have used Smartswitch to copy data, apps etc across. I also transferred the SD card from the A7  to the A53.

However Qobuz now has a problem; no downloads on SD card.

The path:-

SD card > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache

Is still there but Import cache is now empty. I guess this is because I had to re enter my login details on the new phone. So all downloads will need to be downloaded again;

On Internal storage there is:-

Internal storage > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache with the one test download I have tried.

But I cannot see how to amend Qobuz to make the download to:-

SD card > Andriod > data> com.qobuz.music > files > Music > Import cache as I would like to.

I must have known a method in the past but cannot do it now.

Can anyone please advise before I start the long process of downloading all my music again?

@athegn1 As far as I know there is no way to transfer the offline music to a different device. I've searched for this a few days ago as I also bought a new phone. I'd found this behaviour stated somewhere, so it's by design (sorry, can't find the reference anymore).
This is a bit of a bummer. Luckily the download works something like 50 times faster on my new phone (just a Galaxy A33, so not the fastest out there).

[Lebouwsky]

6 hours ago, One and a half said:

Yes, the noise is 'getting in' via a backdoor, there are two pairs of DX filters arriving this week. First spot is between the modem and router, the next from router to file server.

Before adding more components, maybe there’s a lot of leakage in your system, caused by out of phased connection of your electronics in the wall outlet. 
 

 

[athegn1]

athegn1 As far as I know there is no way to transfer the offline music to a different device. I've searched for this a few days ago as I also bought a new phone. I'd found this behaviour stated somewhere, so it's by design (sorry, can't find the reference anymore).
This is a bit of a bummer. Luckily the download works something like 50 times faster on my new phone (just a Galaxy A33, so not the fastest out there).

 

Thank you. Will have to download again. No problem but want to download to my SD card, as I did before; just can't find how I changed the download path.

[Savolax]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:00 AM, One and a half said:

Almost mono, or such a collapsed sound stage enough to be mono. This is the result of noise artefacts entering the system interfering with timing of left and right information. The network is the same, i.e. router, switches, DX Filters Ether Regen, JCAT NET XE, renderer. Only difference is the modem where the Qobuz streaming comes from versus the local files on a Windows File Server. 

 

Can't do much about the cable modem, it belongs to the ISP, other than power it from a linear power supply and add a DX filter between it and the router. Currently the router and modem share the same Meanwell open cage type SMPS rated at 12V 10A. Will it help, not so sure, other than to add shielded network cables, more loop problems.

Mind's made up, Qobuz to the bin, already cancelled the free trial. 

 

Maybe a related anecdote, but I had a similar experience on one particular album release. I was casually listening it on Qobuz and began wondering why it sounded so mono-ish. I actually had the same album still archived as an old MP3 version (LAME -V2 compression) and to my surprise the MP3 album sounded more stereo than the one on Qobuz.

I considered this could be due to differences in supply chain. I had JCAT USB Xe +LSP (with USB DDC +LPS) and used I350 T2 server NIC via EtherREGEN.

Decided to let Qobuz know about this issue. They provided graphs that their release is infact stereo. This bothered me so much that I had to dig up my CD stash and to extract the audio as FLAC only to claim Qobuz's version being altered somehow. They did not reply with our correspondence but later on I found this freshly extracted version on Qobuz. 

[Lebouwsky]

It would be interesting to share the songs that sound so mono. 

[RichardSF]

14 hours ago, johey said:

As far as I know there is no way to transfer the offline music to a different device. I've searched for this a few days ago as I also bought a new phone. I'd found this behaviour stated somewhere, so it's by design

It is not allowed by the record label companies. Their license agreements require that streaming services make offline files playable only on the original download device. The record labels are very strict about any possibility of music piracy.

[MarcelNL]

you can however share title, version and bitrate....

 

I have a hard time believing digital stereo can become mono just like that......sure a rip can be done incorrectly, or some processing done by a hamfisted audio 'engineer' at a studio (as far as I'm aware the files do not reside on Qobuz servers, yet I may be wrong), but having a stream transforming  from stereo between source file and home user is a stretch for me.

 

[111MilesToGo]

On 12/3/2022 at 1:36 AM, One and a half said:

Today's the day to try Qobuz on the free trial, never used Qobuz in streaming mode, only the occasional download.

 

…

 

OK, let's try something I know well, Sophie Milman, 'In the Moonlight - So Sorry', played back-to-back with the local library. Both are the 88.2 version. Now this track on the CD has sibilance on the 'so sorry', the Hires versions have tamed that somewhat, and the Qobuz version holds up to that. Dang this sounds like mono, the image is very much centred in the middle of the speakers with not much left and right at all. Man, this takes 10s or more to load the track, did I select the track ok on the ipad? Oh yes, it appears now multiple times in the playlist. I let the track run through, now disinterested as the end approaches.

 

Playing the local library, front and back image returns, with the fill between the centre and either side of the middle is working, harmonica on the left extreme and guitar on the right at the opening are working fine like before. Sophie's voice has the very fine vibrato, this is absent on Qobuz. Playback on the KEF LS50 in the office system with using the Limin app, U1 and the rest of the chain remaining the same. Listen to the whole track, entranced, then play the 'Album of the Evening', sounds lovely, engaging, totally listenable.

 

So, what's the point in listening to near mono, EUR149/year for this privilege/entertainment? C'est merde, if you ask me. Cancelling the free trial, not bothering.

Well, this developed towards an intriguing question. So I just took the the plunge and listened to one of the tracks that reportedly sound ”near mono-ish“. I selected Sophie Millmann, album ”In The Moonlight“, track ”So Sorry“, on eOne Music, 24/88.1. My TOTL but still simple chain 😉 is:

 

ISP > DSL 100/40 > Home router Fritz!Box 7490 > WiFi > DAP Cayin N8ii with Android 9 and original Qobuz Android App, streaming topmost quality > Balanced out > IEM Sennheiser IE900

 

No surprises at all, it is full stereo, everything sounds like @One and a halfsaid it should: In the beginning of the track, harmonica on the left extreme and guitar on the right, Mrs. Millman‘s voice centered front with nice vibrato and just a tiny bit of sibilance, drum kit spread out across the middle back region, bass center back. Just listenable. And selecting the album and track as well as starting the track takes no unusual amount of time at all.

 

I conclude from this, if I may, please: @One and a half, try Qobuz again and get a deeper look at your setup, unless your mind on Qobuz is made up like a rock already.

 

For me, Qobuz is the best music lover‘s streaming service, by far. Repeating myself, I’m not affiliated with them or anybody else.

 

I am located in Germany, don‘t know whether there is any difference to where @One and a halfis located according to his flag here (Australia). Not sure what servers Qobuz uses; I remember having seen an Amazon Server as the address of some track at some point in time.

[One and a half]

17 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

Before adding more components, maybe there’s a lot of leakage in your system, caused by out of phased connection of your electronics in the wall outlet. 
 

 

Leakage yes, since the soundstage collapses, it's a symptom, also if there is a large difference in grounds on PC-USB-DAC, then there is the same trouble. Sometimes can be fixed with cable, but better to ground 0V, LPSU, that type of approach. The server and audio PC's operate from a UPS with a 230V/120V transformer to tame common mode noise. The audio equipment power is derived from a Topaz balanced transformer with all plugs polarised. I don't think it's a phase problem, but if the Ethernet cable was shielded, now that would cause wholesale leakage and sound terrible. There's an EtherRegen that blocks that crud, and works well. Power for the EtherRegen comes from a Lumin U1 original power supply (is linear, 12V, 1.5A capable). As stated before, the soundstage on local files is quite good to outstanding, depending on the recording.

 

I'm not at home until the weekend, so all I can do for now is theorise. 

[johey]

15 hours ago, athegn1 said:

athegn1 As far as I know there is no way to transfer the offline music to a different device. I've searched for this a few days ago as I also bought a new phone. I'd found this behaviour stated somewhere, so it's by design (sorry, can't find the reference anymore).
This is a bit of a bummer. Luckily the download works something like 50 times faster on my new phone (just a Galaxy A33, so not the fastest out there).

 

Thank you. Will have to download again. No problem but want to download to my SD card, as I did before; just can't find how I changed the download path.

@athegn1 You can change the download path via (Qobuz App) > My Qobuz > Settings (the cog at the top right) > Storage.

[One and a half]

9 minutes ago, 111MilesToGo said:

 

 

I am located in Germany, don‘t know whether there is any difference to where @One and a halfis located according to his flag here (Australia). Not sure what servers Qobuz uses; I remember having seen an Amazon Server as the address of some track at some point in time.

I'm in AU, and have a Qobuz account in France (long story, this is now a few years old BS (Before Streaming)). I try to login on the AU site, but the browser redirects to the French site. Try to change the country, won't let me. In any case, the server location shouldn't matter, or the bandwidth, provided it is the minimum for streaming hi-res files. I can watch 4k films, so streaming Hi-Res should be a piece of cake.