How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[mansr]

[mansr]

9 minutes ago, Bystander said:

All I can think of looking at that picture is that music and probably even speech must have sounded horrible in that room. What a waste of a good stereo:

 

If he clapped his hands, the echo would be ringing to this day.

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, davide256 said:

the cost of a users audiophile system will be directly related to their willingness to spend money

No shit.

[mansr]

15 minutes ago, marce said:

I don't want to be an audiophile anymore, I just want to be a snob and sneer at those with lesser systems.

I find it all depressing, so depressing that I am serious I don't want to be an audiophile, I want to listen to music and a system is just a tool to achieve that, it seems being an audiophile is more about the system than the music.

I hate to repeat myself, but:

On 5/27/2018 at 6:22 PM, mansr said:

 

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, Nordkapp said:

I hate to trash stuff, but if one is going to go entry level, emotiva is not the way to start off. Rotel/NAD and entry level B&W loudspeakers is where I'd start and actually did. The cost/quality ratio is really favorable with these brands. I am generally wary of products manufactured in China, with the exception of only a very few Chinese high end brands.

B&W, with the exception of the 800 series, is manufactured in China. They probably keep a close watch over the production facilities, though. The troublesome Chinese stuff usually comes from unsupervised contract manufacturers that no reputable company would use.

[mansr]

39 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

The real separation tho between audiophiles as I see it comes down to how one assesses "fidelity" playback which in turn comes down to the great divide; trust your ears vs trust your measurements. IMO each has their place.

The former are, to a large extent, actually trusting their eyes, eyes fixated on the price tag.

[mansr]

2 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I'd be willing to bet GUTB money that in a double-blind tests he couldn't pick out an Emotiva preamp/amp setup from a similar Parasound setup or a Bryston setup, or any other mid-level high-end amp/preamp combo. 

Throw in a clock radio too, just for fun.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

Data?

Every post ever made by GUTB and his ilk.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

What do you have against his ilk?

 

That's an elk. Reminds me of a silly rhyme:

 

The cow is of the bovine ilk;

One end is moo, the other milk.

-- Ogden Nash

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

C'mon Mans, that is true of a subset.

That's what I said. The subset is, sadly, rather large.

[mansr]

I don't understand the constant talk about upgrade paths and what to get next. Is it not permitted to simply buy a competent system one can afford and be happy with it (for the time being)?

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, esldude said:

It is a good idea.

 

I think everyone starts not fully knowing what they wish to invest in time or effort, and not having experience to be a good judge of a system's capabilities.  Just additional experience and exposure usually will lead you to making better choices.  If you go thru this cycle a few times it becomes a habit of sorts. 

 

Now could a dealer or other person put together a competent system you would be happy with for quite some time?  Sure in theory.  However, if I had been advised to get my current gear initially I would have been appalled and bewildered.  I likely wouldn't have had the good sense to take the advice given. 

I didn't mean to imply you'd only every buy one set of audio components. You might not hit the mark on the first attempt, but two or three iterations of targeting specific aspects you find lacking really ought to be enough to end up with something satisfactory. What I find puzzling is the obsession with constantly "upgrading" to ever more expensive gear. Audiophiles are often accused of focusing more on the equipment than the music. Some seem, to me, still more concerned with buying new equipment than listening to what they've got.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

Audiophiles gonna talk about equipment.    I went through a period of 20 years without upgrading anything and was very happy.  The only reason I changed was when I heard modern DACs fed by files through player software, and thought these sounded better than what I’d had.  And the only reason I listened to the new stuff was because my disc player gave out.

Buying new equipment to keep up with shifts in technology isn't what I'm talking about, nor is replacing faulty items.

 

6 minutes ago, Jud said:

But even though I seldom change equipment, I enjoy reading discussions about what might be new in the world.

Sure, nothing wrong with keeping oneself informed.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

The one that really left me shaking my head was a record collector in Miami.  He had all sorts of old music on vinyl.  But to keep maximum value he hadn’t opened the plastic shrink wrap on any of it.  After years of Florida humidity getting through micro-holes in the wrap, the cardboard LP covers had expanded against the shrink wrap and curved.  There sat thousands of albums of some really wonderful music, none of it ever listened to, and all warped beyond playability even if he had wanted to listen.

Sounds more like a compulsive hoarder than someone with any actual interest in music or audio. It was probably random chance that he started collecting records specifically and not something else like postage stamps, film posters, or whatever.

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, semente said:

There is a time in most audiophiles lives when we obcess with equipment and accessories, when we listen and nausea to the same audiophile-approved couple of tracks and live off magazine reviews.

 

It's a sad time but the spell can be broken and we will be able to enjoy music and life once more.

Are you describing a mid-life crisis?

[mansr]

Just now, semente said:

It's more of an audiophile-crisis. And it strikes people of all ages...

Hasn't happened to me yet.

[mansr]

1 hour ago, semente said:

Lucky you, though I don't think you have the right profile. I had it in my early twenties.

I was studying electronic engineering in my early 20s.

[mansr]

36 minutes ago, Jud said:

And here you are on an audio forum.  Where did you go wrong?

Good question.

[mansr]

12 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Seems like a contradiction to me, mansr. I assume that budding audiophiles (both of them) do just what you suggest. They purchase the most competent system that they can afford and are generally happy with it for a while. But as they gain listening experience, start reading the magazines and start going to shows, they begin to see (hear?) the shortcomings of their current systems and start to look for ways to improve the sound they are getting. Buy a new DAC, a new amp, perhaps better speakers, etc. are the pathways to a better system, so they start to upgrade. It's a natural progression for this hobby. My first system was modest, even by that days' standard, but I kept upgrading it By the time I was at my first real job out of college, I had replaced everything and I never looked back. I do now of course. There are things I had that I would give my eye-teeth to have again (my Audio Empire 498 Troubadour turntable, for instance or that tank of a three-motor Pioneer cassette recorder which I sold when I bought the Aiwa F9000 which, while giving superior performance, wasn't as well made and died after a few years) but mostly every move was a sonic upgrade.  

If the goal is sound reproduction with good fidelity, the rate of component replacement should be decreasing over time. For some, however, it seems that the process of trying out new gear has taken over and come to dominate the original objective of enjoying music. This turns into a way of life, and in some cases the afflicted even start belittling those who are not perpetually looking for the next replacement.

[mansr]

23 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I am actually curious too. You know a lot about audio, clearly, but sometimes I wonder what motivates you.

I like music, and I understand the technology that delivers it. Combine the two.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, gmgraves said:

Certainly. There is a section of the audiophile community to whom the equipment is the focus. There is also a type of personality that believes that the road to happiness is paved with new acquisitions. Audiophiles with that personality (it's a common personality trait) are continually upgrading. Have you never heard a woman say that shopping for new clothes makes her happy? Guys don't like to shop, per se, but their version of this trait is to be always purchasing some new doo-dad for whatever hobby they're into. The act of acquiring something new releases endorphins making the buyer feel good. Unfortunately it wears off soon and the desire to do it again raises it's expensive head!

I can comprehend such explanations for the behaviour. At the same time, I think it's unfortunate that this has become a defining trait of audiophiles. GUTB is a caricature of an audiophile, yet the attitudes he represents have poisoned the marketplace, both by driving up prices on quality equipment and by legitimising all manner of snake oil to the point that it's difficult to find a manufacturer or vendor who isn't complicit in the grand scam, even if not actively participating in it.

[mansr]

7 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

But you can still find quality gear that is value for money right.you can choose to ignore products that you have deemed rip offs.

Sure, but a lot of equipment has inflated prices due to pointless expensive add-ons like casework in solid silver or whatnot. In some cases (pardon the pun), the case alone allegedly accounts for half the production cost, which translates to half the retail price.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

But you can still find quality gear that is value for money right.you can choose to ignore products that you have deemed rip offs.

Not if you're looking for something that could be considered high end (let's assume these components really do have spectacularly better sound than more modest ones).

[mansr]

37 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

ok lets play this game. Who cares if its high end. If it measures good it sounds good.Are you telling me only the ones with silver cases measure well?

I never said anything remotely like that. There are, however, many who insist that the expensive gear sounds significantly better than cheaper products. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that they are right. Some of the expensive stuff does use unusual circuitry too, so it's not entirely implausible that it at least sounds different. The problem I see is that you can't get the supposedly good electronics without paying through your nose for the bling casework etc.

[mansr]

13 hours ago, sandyk said:

Do you also have an interest in things like hi res video and perhaps hi res audio on Blu Ray ?

I prefer watching films/TV in hi-res, if that's what you mean. I've also done some work on codecs and other software. Here's something I built together with TI some years ago: