How much does it cost to be an audiophile?

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, semente said:

More components in the signal path?

Only a slightly increased capacitance, equivalent to a longer interconnect.

[sandyk]

Mansr

 Something specific.

Some constructors of the attached reported instability problems, and even overheating of the device due to oscillation.

 This was apparently caused by the direct capacitance of the lead to the RC volume control. One cure was to replace the output capacitor with a 100 ohms resistor. Due to the low DC offset this didn't cause any rustling noises etc. with rotation  of the control.

Alex

 

P.S.;

 With some of the early CD players, a Headphone socket cable to a front panel Headphone I.C. was directly connected to the output I.C.s This resulted in some audible degradation as reported by many users . The typical solution at the time was to disconnect the headphone output. 

In my case I connected a series 100ohm resistor to the input of the headphone cable.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Mansr

 Something specific.

Some constructors of the attached reported instability problems, and even overheating of the device due to oscillation.

 This was apparently caused by the direct capacitance of the lead to the RC volume control. One cure was to replace the output capacitor with a 100 ohms resistor. Due to the low DC offset this didn't cause any rustling noises etc. with rotation  of the control.

Alex

I'm not disputing this. What I'm saying is that if a component can drive 2-metre interconnect, it can drive two 1-metre lengths in parallel.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

I'm not disputing this. What I'm saying is that if a component can drive 2-metre interconnect, it can drive two 1-metre lengths in parallel.

 Obviously.  But the interconnects used as George is suggesting may need to be longer than 1M.

 From what I see in this forum, many use interconnects considerably longer than 1M due to equipment layout. considerations.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

Obviously.  But the interconnects used as George is suggesting may need to be longer than 1M.

Why?

 

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

From what I see in this forum, many use interconnects considerably longer than 1M due to equipment layout considerations.

Yes, I've seen Mani's 10-metre runs. So what? Don't do the test with extreme lengths, and it will be fine.

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, mansr said:

Why?

 

Yes, I've seen Mani's 10-metre runs. So what? Don't do the test with extreme lengths, and it will be fine.

Mansr

This wasn't meant to be an ACADEMIC test. It was to enable your typical user to choose between 2 different interconnects ,which in many cases will be much longer as you just pointed out. This will likely affect many typically implemented opamp output stages to some extent, and neither cable will sound quite as good as it should.

[mansr]

Just now, sandyk said:

Mansr

This wasn't meant to be an ACADEMIC test. It was to enable your typical user to choose between 2 different interconnects, which in many cases will be much longer as you just pointed out. This will likely affect many typically implemented opamp output stages to some extent, and neither cable will sound quite as good as it should.

If you normally use extremely long interconnects, temporarily move your equipment for the test session. I doubt many would be willing to drill extra holes through walls and floors just for a test anyway.

[fas42]

8 hours ago, semente said:

 

 

 

 

Every mechanic who fixes your faulty car is obviously a higher order of being, it appears . Gee, it's not very hard, once you drop the ego fixation that the blingy setup in front of you must be fabulous, just 'cause it looks the goods ...

 

I have not done a single thing to 'fix' any set of gear that hasn't already been done by someone else, who has gone to painful lengths to explain the procedure. Unfortunately, the terribly magical thing that I have done to get the results I'm after is to keep trying things until something good enough, sound wise, emerges - and, this concept goes straight over most people's heads like a jet fighter on afterburners, it seems .

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

If you normally use extremely long interconnects, temporarily move your equipment for the test session. I doubt many would be willing to drill extra holes through walls and floors just for a test anyway.

 You are missing the point.

The object of George's proposal was to enable selection between 2 cables to use with their equipment at it's present location.

 The cables they will wish to choose from, perhaps with a view to purchasing, will need to be of the length they normally need to use.

[fas42]

22 hours ago, GUTB said:

Disapointed in the Esoteric room today! This time they had Grandiosos on display and they were playing some tracks from an atendee's CD...played through a Grandioso disc player and into an Esoteric DAC...didn't identify if it was a Gradioso or not. It was an opera CD and BOY were the highs etched and sibilant! Not good! It sounded like good mid-fi or maybe high end consumer grade. I'll visit them again to see if they fixed the system...maybe the dome tweeters on the Cantons were breaking up?

 

 

Okay, mistake number 1 ... every time a system sounds bad, it must be the speakers!! They're everyone's whipping boy, 'cause they so obvious - I mean, I can hear that the speakers are bad; just listen to them!!!

 

I have yet to 'solve a rig' by playing with the speakers, apart from doing the obvious things to correct silly weaknesses - push on connectors, etc.

 

"Etched treble" is present on virtually all high end setups, just sometimes it's really obvious, like here - a general sorting out of its health will extinguish that.

[mansr]

13 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 You are missing the point.

The object of George's proposal was to enable selection between 2 cables to use with their equipment at it's present location.

 The cables they will wish to choose from, perhaps with a view to purchasing, will need to be of the length they normally need to use.

Well, most people don't have insanely long interconnects. Maybe George's suggestion is unsuitable for a select few. It's still a good method for most. You're trying to invalidate the entire idea on the grounds that there might be a setup where it doesn't work. That's not sound reasoning.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

11 hours ago, mansr said:

 

This image shows the built-in AFG of my Tektronix scope outputting a 10 MHz square wave through 0.5 m RG-58U to the channel 1 input, then via T coupling and 2 m RG-58U to the channel 2 input which is set to 50 Ω termination. The somewhat distorted top of the yellow (channel 1) trace is due a slight impedance mismatch somewhere causing reflections. Other than that, the only discernible effect of the 2-metre length is a 10 ns delay. I think this is good enough for audio.

 

They're funny looking QRS to be sure ! At a guess I'd say your tracking along at about 72 bpm which is fine but ya might wannna look into the slight ST segment depression, cut down on fatty foods a bit....?

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Well, most people don't have insanely long interconnects. Maybe George's suggestion is unsuitable for a select few. It's still a good method for most. You're trying to invalidate the entire idea on the grounds that there might be a setup where it doesn't work. That's not sound reasoning.

 

The simple fact is that many members (including Mani) report hearing differences that you consider are technically impossible.

 

The cables should be switched at BOTH ends !!!

[Rt66indierock]

24 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Okay, mistake number 1 ... every time a system sounds bad, it must be the speakers!! They're everyone's whipping boy, 'cause they so obvious - I mean, I can hear that the speakers are bad; just listen to them!!!

 

I have yet to 'solve a rig' by playing with the speakers, apart from doing the obvious things to correct silly weaknesses - push on connectors, etc.

 

"Etched treble" is present on virtually all high end setups, just sometimes it's really obvious, like here - a general sorting out of its health will extinguish that.

 

The room sounded fine this afternoon. 

[mav52]

7 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The room sounded fine this afternoon. 

Interesting first view write up.  https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/the-show-2018/

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, mav52 said:

Interesting first view write up.  https://positive-feedback.com/show-reports/the-show-2018/

 

The Esoteric room had problems Friday and they fixed them is all I was saying.

 

Many venders told me they were happy with the show. I’ll write some thoughts about it and some of the political things. As tease we (those who oppose MQA) may have to take out Long Beach on general principles.

[GUTB]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The Esoteric room had problems Friday and they fixed them is all I was saying.

 

Many venders told me they were happy with the show. I’ll write some thoughts about it and some of the political things. As tease we (those who oppose MQA) may have to take out Long Beach on general principles.

 

I listened again today, it was much better. I was impressed with the finesse of the system.

[Ralf11]

4 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

They're funny looking QRS to be sure ! At a guess I'd say your tracking along at about 72 bpm which is fine but ya might wannna look into the slight ST segment depression, cut down on fatty foods a bit....?

 

call Roto-Rooter

[semente]

7 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Every mechanic who fixes your faulty car is obviously a higher order of being, it appears . Gee, it's not very hard, once you drop the ego fixation that the blingy setup in front of you must be fabulous, just 'cause it looks the goods ...

 

I have not done a single thing to 'fix' any set of gear that hasn't already been done by someone else, who has gone to painful lengths to explain the procedure. Unfortunately, the terribly magical thing that I have done to get the results I'm after is to keep trying things until something good enough, sound wise, emerges - and, this concept goes straight over most people's heads like a jet fighter on afterburners, it seems .

 

I was only joking. ?

I think you missed these posts:

 

On 5/28/2018 at 6:11 PM, semente said:

I've just been listening to a $165k+ new CD based system for some 4 hours. The owner and the other visitor enjoy listening at higher levels than I do and I confess that I felt uncomfortable at times.

I am now listening to the same track in my lowly £6.5k system. The SPL is at the same level as per the app on my phone and the sound is smooth as silk with a much more balanced tonal balance.

 

On 5/29/2018 at 9:10 AM, semente said:

 

I think that you and others may have missed my point.

What SPL level was unbearably and uncomfortably loud with the £130k system sounded perfectly reasonable in my system in my 4.5x3.4m room with my mid-end system. Perhaps we (well, GUTB) need to re-evaluate which is which...

[fas42]

7 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I was only joking. ?

I think you missed these posts:

 

 

 

No worries  ... my response was really to those others who feel I claim "special powers" - I certainly appreciate that your goals are very similar to mine ...

[mav52]

8 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

The Esoteric room had problems Friday and they fixed them is all I was saying.

 

Many venders told me they were happy with the show. I’ll write some thoughts about it and some of the political things. As tease we (those who oppose MQA) may have to take out Long Beach on general principles.

 I never questioned what you were saying. Just another opinion from the show.

[gmgraves]

20 hours ago, sandyk said:

George

 It's not about losses due to the cables, it's the effect of the additional capacitance seen by the output device, and many opamps do not like to see a lot of direct capacitance at their output and may even become unstable, which is why most output I.C.s in typical consumer gear   (e.g.LM4562, LME49720 etc.) have something like a 100 ohm series resistor at their output.

 

Alex

Agreed, that op-amps don't like highly capacitive loads, but 120 pf/meter isn't a highly capacitive load.  

[gmgraves]

18 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

The simple fact is that many members (including Mani) report hearing differences that you consider are technically impossible.

 

The cables should be switched at BOTH ends !!!

It's not necessary. A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all. And, brother 1/100th of a dB @ 20KHz makes no difference at all. 

 

18 hours ago, sandyk said:

Obviously.  But the interconnects used as George is suggesting may need to be longer than 1M.

??????!!!!!

[sandyk]

37 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Agreed, that op-amps don't like highly capacitive loads, but 120 pf/meter isn't a highly capacitive load.  

 

 2 in parallel, like you were suggesting, that would be quite a bit longer with the layouts of many members, is entirely different.

 

AGAIN : The cables should be switched at both ends !!!

 Are you E.Es too slack, and complacent in your blinkered views of what people can ,and can not hear,to do this properly ?

[esldude]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 2 in parallel, like you were suggesting, that would be quite a bit longer with the layouts of many members, is entirely different.

 

AGAIN : The cables should be switched at both ends !!!

 Are you E.Es too slack, and complacent in your blinkered views of what people can ,and can not hear,to do this properly ?

Well optimally you'd switch at both ends.  But if not doing that is adequate for 90% of those doing this maybe that is still an okay suggestion.  Especially if you amended it to say unless your interconnects exceed 3 meters you'd be safe doing it as George suggests.