Headphones vs Speakers.....Go!

[aurum]

I find that headphones are too restrictive and so I use them mostly when I'm outside or when I'm not alone in the room. When it's much easier for head/earphones to be cleaner, more linear, more detailed (which is perfect for work), you loose in sound stage and imaging. 
Personally, I prefer speakers: the sound comes from all around you, and not from your head. This is more "natural" because sound does come from all around (and, like, in real life sound is working this way). Speakers have issues too, though, and the room is a huge part of it.
So using two different setups for different situation seems to be a good solution for me.

[AMR/iFi audio]

We'd say both headphones and speakers can provide a lot of joy. Cans won't deliver what 18' woofers with paper membranes on some dipoles are able to, but still some TOTL headphones are very impressive.

[mav52]

I own and use both headphones and speakers and I enjoy both. 

[AMR/iFi audio]

On 3/23/2019 at 3:15 PM, mav52 said:

I own and use both headphones and speakers and I enjoy both. 

 

Yes. It's not a war between them, right? 😎

[diecaster]

5 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Yes. It's not a war between them, right? 😎

 

It depends on the question, doesn't it? Speakers beat headphones head to head. But I use headphone sometimes because I would rather listen to music through headphones than not at all.

[asdf1000]

10 minutes ago, diecaster said:

Speakers beat headphones head to head.

 

What does 'head to head' mean?

 

Headphones can provide a transparency that speakers can't. Speakers can produce a 3D soundstage that headphones can't.

 

There are a lot of 2L recording fans here. Morten Lindberg does a lot of his (incredible) work (26 Grammy Award nominations) with headphones... He is just one example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

Grammy nominated composer Kim André Arnesen (MAGNIFICAT) does heaps of his incredible work on headphones too...

 

In fact, one could say that to get closer to 'as the artist/engineer/composer intended', grab yourself a pair of the same headphones they used 😉

 

 

[STC]

Use of headphones by Morten Lindberg. 

 

“According to Lindberg, headphones give him exactly the kind of information he needs, which is what the microphone is picking up at its current position. “You can do pretty much anything and have full control on headphones,” he adds. “I emphasize this because traditional professors say ‘you can't record or mix on headphones.’ Yes, you can, but you need to relate it to a speaker environment. Build a sense of transfer of functionality, which makes you secure on headphones. You also must have a very good mastering studio so you can make the final production sound like it did while recording on headphones.”

 

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/protalkarticles-morten-lindberg

[diecaster]

@Em2016 and @STC

 

Let's not conflate professionals composing, recording, mixing, and mastering with the consumers listening to music in their homes. Because they are not even close to being the same thing.

 

Also, unless you can show me that even 25 percent of the industry composes, records, mixes, and masters tracks and albums using headphones, all you are doing is saying that a few people use headphones for these activities. In other words, exceptions don't invalidate the rule. 

[asdf1000]

29 minutes ago, diecaster said:

@Em2016 and @STC

 

Let's not conflate professionals composing, recording, mixing, and mastering with the consumers listening to music in their homes. Because they are not even close to being the same thing.

 

Also, unless you can show me that even 25 percent of the industry composes, records, mixes, and masters tracks and albums using headphones, all you are doing is saying that a few people use headphones for these activities. In other words, exceptions don't invalidate the rule. 

 

Everything needs to be mixed on headphones these days... for Apple Earpods and Beats headphones because there are literally millions of them being used every day. Along with mixing on a variety of different speakers of course...

 

It would make more sense to try and demonstrate even 25 percent of music that is not mixed on headphones..

 

I've just covered the full spectrum.... 2L recordings with HD800 headphones and modern pop with Apple Earpods/Beats headphones...

 

But back to my earlier question, what does "Speakers beat headphones head to head" mean?

[STC]

1 hour ago, diecaster said:

Let's not conflate professionals composing, recording, mixing, and mastering with the consumers listening to music in their homes. Because they are not even close to being the same thing.

 

I have already stated my position in post  #122.  In today's world, headphones is just practical for personal space.  For recordings, they have their own reasons. End of the day, they all make music to sound good over speakers.

[diecaster]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

But back to my earlier question, what does "Speakers beat headphones head to head" mean?

 

Do you not know what "head to head" means? It means going up against each other.

[asdf1000]

26 minutes ago, diecaster said:

 

Do you not know what "head to head" means? It means going up against each other.

 

Noted but what does "going up against each other" mean, in terms of specifics in the context of this discussion?

[davide256]

Most of us can't afford several top quality speakers to swap  back and forth trying to analyze whats being heard/not heard correctly. Headphones are

a much lower order of expense, one where you can afford to have "different flavors" for that analysis.

[diecaster]

6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Noted but what does "going up against each other" mean, in terms of specifics in the context of this discussion?

 

Look at the title of the thread. Why are being so obtuse?

[Nordkapp]

Let's just compare cars to motorcycles while we're at it. People like what they like. Done.

[semente]

17 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

What does 'head to head' mean?

 

Headphones can provide a transparency that speakers can't. Speakers can produce a 3D soundstage that headphones can't.

 

There are a lot of 2L recording fans here. Morten Lindberg does a lot of his (incredible) work (26 Grammy Award nominations) with headphones... He is just one example.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's known for having wrapped the musicians around the microphones... How weird is that?

 

[Paul R]

17 hours ago, diecaster said:

 

It depends on the question, doesn't it? Speakers beat headphones head to head. But I use headphone sometimes because I would rather listen to music through headphones than not at all.

 

Actually, I think it is a scale too. For example, $1000 spent on headphones will (or should) give you much better sound than $1000 spent on speakers. They will both be good, but the headphones should be distinctly better at almost everything. 

 

$1000 spend on headphones and $2500 spent on speakers will probably go the other way., The speakers (assuming the electronics are equal, and the speakers were chosen for the listener's taste, etc.) will probably sound better.  $2500 spend on near field speakers will probably sound astonishingly better. 

 

There is a point where the very rough cost vs. quality line will cross, and the generality can easily fail in specifics - there are some things speakers do much better than any headphone, and vice versa. Where exactly that line lies is an interesting question.

 

My *guess* is that speakers in the $30K - $40K range are going to sound as good as or better than even the best headphones, which in general top out at under $10-$12K. IMNSHO of course, YMMV.  

 

Much above that range, speakers cease to become instruments of music reproduction, and become statements.

[AMR/iFi audio]

13 hours ago, STC said:

In today's world, headphones is just practical for personal space.  For recordings, they have their own reasons. End of the day, they all make music to sound good over speakers.

 

Nicely said. 

[mav52]

On 3/24/2019 at 4:10 PM, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

Yes. It's not a war between them, right? 😎

 

It all depends on the users use of each, what they want out of their system, the environment they live in and their budget. The only childlike war is when either side thinks their choice is better, its no different in car brands or any brand of anything a user chooses to use. . You buy a product for yourself not to appease someone else.

[STC]

5 hours ago, semente said:

 

He's known for having wrapped the musicians around the microphones... How weird is that?

 

 

His mastering room is surrounded by B&W speakers. Headphones are just to listen how it sounded at the microphone, like he said. 

[Summit]

1. To get 20-25 Hz quality sub bass out of your speakers you need not only a top notch audio system but also a big treated listening room. With headphones you don’t need a big room and acoustic treatment and can obsess over other things.
2. Even the quietest room has noise floor of 35-40 db or more.
3. For XXXX dollar/euro you can get a really good new headphone system. A new speaker system at the same price would maybe sound okay, but no cigar.
4. Btw most record studios use headphones to mix and record and use speakers for the last arrangement.

[AMR/iFi audio]

20 hours ago, STC said:

He's known for having wrapped the musicians around the microphones... How weird is that?

 

 

If it gets the job done, it can be as wierd as possible 😎

[STC]

3 hours ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

If it gets the job done, it can be as wierd as possible 😎

 ? . Why quoting me? I didn't say that. :)) 

[John Dyson]

I use headphones for my precision work -- too many interfering factors depending solely on speakers.  Speakers are great for verifying the sound -- in fact, ideally if I was working not for just precise reproduction, but for music -- I would not just need headphones and some competent speakers -- but several kinds of speakers.   Headphones for precision, excellent speakers for imaging, and several kinds of 'average' speakers for freq response balance, checking for excess bass/etc.   Maybe even a set of speakers that represent TV or small computer quality also to verify.  With all of the compression & other processing -- several kinds of speakers would be critical.  Also, maybe even the original work being done with simple, clear, zero personality headphones, and a set of 'consumer' headphones with a lot of personality (often 'elite' headphones are like this...  Gotta pay for something other than precision -- so one can also purchase a certain bias that the person likes.)

For mixing music -- to suggest one or the other wouldn't be a sufficient solution for the best quality.

Since I am living more in a precision reproduction world (not really doing anything with stereo field/imaging other than severe botch), then all I need is to make sure about super low distortion (headphones) reasonable freq response balance (95% headphones, quick speaker check), otherwise initial checks with headphones.

Again, if I was CREATING new music, speakers of SEVERAL types would be needed also -- also a couple of types of consumer headphones along with simple precision headphones.  (Don't misunderstand about transducer technology -- it is pretty much the same for the last 20yrs -- most differences are 'personality' , bluetooth, etc -- not precision.).  Things have advanced since Koss Pro4A, but when speaking of the better(not necessarily expensive)  Beyers or Sennheisers -- anything beyond that is going to be personality.

 

John