sandyk Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, Sonicularity said: Bob Stuart even found that mp3 is preferred over HiRes when he submitted his meta-analysis marketing paper. With training even...training on something. You are so out of touch with the general membership it's laughable ! Many members even preferring to upsample LPCM to DSD. I suggest that you have a good look at other areas of the forum before insisting that the bulk of membership is wasting their time with anything better than .mp3 ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, fas42 said: ummm, we'll leave NBN out of this! Why ? I am connected via WiFi and I regularly achieve speeds up to 2.82M/BS We are on a medium speed plan too. "Bugger the consumer ? " Yeah, they got carried away initially up here with Win HD ( 10 Network) where they reduced the bitrate too much, so that even decent SD on other channels looked better. Perhaps they got more than a handful of complaints too, as it is now approaching what .mpeg2 HD was capable of. (still not there though, as quite a bit of downloaded U.S.A. HD 1080 TV still looks way better.) How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 How I look at things is that many important, and worthwhile recordings are in terrible condition - for all sorts of reasons. And poor data compression can be one of those reasons. So, in the first instance aim to get the absolute best out of any recording, however it has been "damaged" - I find this approach then works for everything, meaning that any recording will yield a satisfying listening experience. Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, sandyk said: Why ? I am connected via WiFi and I regularly achieve speeds up to 2.82M/BS We are on a medium speed plan too. I'm in the Blue Mountains, and the complaints are pouring in - much worse connectivity, unreliable, paying the same or more money for significantly worse performance. The big joke is that NZ went full fibre, and now are miles better off than we will ever be with this shemozzle - it will take decades, probably, to sort it all ... Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, fas42 said: The big joke is that NZ went full fibre, and now are miles better off than we will ever be with this shemozzle - it will take decades, probably, to sort it all ... The not so funny joke here, is that NBN problems can be laid directly at the Commonwealth Government's interference . At my last Team Briefing with Telstra before I took a redundancy package, we were told about the imminent introduction of FTTN. It was common knowledge in Telstra that much of the old copper network was well past it's use-by date , yet the current Prime Minister ( Communications Minister back then) insisted on using FTTN instead of FTTP to save money. Incidentally, that last team briefing was when I was age 58. I am now 78 ! Shortly after the team briefing, the government of the day decided to milk Telstra for dividends, and they were no longer able to fund the roll out of FTTN. Is it any wonder with incompetence like that, that we also have major Electricity network problems nationwide ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
davide256 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 @sandyk, DBT is a tool of psychologists. The proponents are basically a bunch of engineers practicing psychology without a license when they try to advocate it for everything. You can't persuade/win an argument with this cult by countering them with your own beliefs. Just respect them in areas where they demonstrate technical expertise and shun the discussion when they try to proselytize cult beliefs. There are "Borg among us" who think art is only numbers. Teresa 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
esldude Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Audio is engineering. Music is art. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
marce Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, davide256 said: @sandyk, DBT is a tool of psychologists. The proponents are basically a bunch of engineers practicing psychology without a license when they try to advocate it for everything. You can't persuade/win an argument with this cult by countering them with your own beliefs. Just respect them in areas where they demonstrate technical expertise and shun the discussion when they try to proselytize cult beliefs. There are "Borg among us" who think art is only numbers. LOL DBT is another tool available to us, to help determine sound differences without the bias of sight, that's all... you have to question your beliefs and test whether they hold any substance. As stated above audio reproduction is engineering... Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted January 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, marce said: LOL DBT is another tool available to us, to help determine sound differences without the bias of sight, that's all... you have to question your beliefs and test whether they hold any substance. As stated above audio reproduction is engineering... This is a fundamental issue. Progress in any field comes from a willingness to doubt, not a desire to confirm. Sonicularity and Teresa 1 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, davide256 said: There are "Borg among us" who think art is only numbers. LOL ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post sandyk Posted January 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 hours ago, marce said: DBT is another tool available to us, to help determine sound differences without the bias of sight, that's all... What point is there for DBT with Audio when MANY (most ?) refuse to accept the results because they don't go the way they expected them to ? You are also one of those people . Teresa and Don Hills 1 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 hours ago, esldude said: Audio is engineering. Music is art. But, there's an art to getting the engineering right for audio ... why? Because there aren't any textbooks with a full recipe for making it happen ... something for the future ... Teresa 1 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 DBT is a tool of all science Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 11 hours ago, sandyk said: What point is there for DBT with Audio when MANY (most ?) refuse to accept the results because they don't go the way they expected them to ? You are also one of those people . No I am not. Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 21/01/2018 at 3:23 AM, fas42 said: Of course, the real answer is that data compression, excessive or otherwise, is not necessary, as bandwith and storage get cheaper and cheaper - ummm, we'll leave NBN out of this! - but habits die hard ... the technical crowd get excited by the fact that they can do something, and therefore, do it - bugger the consumer!! ! Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 hours ago, fas42 said: But, there's an art to getting the engineering right for audio ... why? Because there aren't any textbooks with a full recipe for making it happen ... something for the future ... Wrong. esldude 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 49 minutes ago, marce said: No I am not. In which case you must believe that the series of 6 separate (by date) DBTs that I refer to, were either not correctly performed, or that around 8 repeats per session , all with positive results is inadequate ? What are the odds against results such as those being false results or not meaning anything ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
STC Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, sandyk said: In which case you must believe that the series of 6 separate (by date) DBTs that I refer to, were either not correctly performed, or that around 8 repeats per session , all with positive results is inadequate ? What are the odds against results such as those being false results or not meaning anything ? Sandyk, I am unable to find the relevant post. The hificritic link returns page not found error. Could you please provide the link? Thanx. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, STC said: Sandyk, I am unable to find the relevant post. The hificritic link returns page not found error. Could you please provide the link? Thanx. Unless you are a HFC Forum member you won't be able to access the pages. Also, just like C.A. due to Forum upgrades, many older links no longer work. I will PM you copies of some of the HFC tests. STC 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
SoundAndMotion Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, sandyk said: Unless you are a HFC Forum member you won't be able to access the pages. Also, just like C.A. due to Forum upgrades, many older links no longer work. I will PM you copies of some of the HFC tests. It’s too bad you can’t upload them somehow. You have mentioned them several times in different threads, and I have looked for them unsuccessfully. Could I bother you to please PM them to me also? Thanks in advance, whether you’re able to or not. Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, marce said: Wrong. Recommendation? Link to comment
adamdea Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 hours ago, marce said: LOL DBT is another tool available to us, to help determine sound differences without the bias of sight, that's all... you have to question your beliefs and test whether they hold any substance. As stated above audio reproduction is engineering... The problem with all of this is simply that it does not answer the question hobbyists ask. That question is roughly -please recommend me a box (transport/dac/amp/whatever) which costs about $x (varies) which will give me what I want, namely the ability to listen to kind of blue/patricia barber/whatever again and get the spooky sense that I am hearing new things. If the answer is, the limits of transparency have been reached with transports/dacs/amps/whatever -you are basically hearing what you can from this recording and the variations in your listening experience are largely down to other inputs. then that is just not the answer required. Try again. ...and of course believing (that a different box can make Patircia Barber sound like she is in the room) might just mean that it does (I bought a new box and it sounded as though Patricia Barber was in the room). So which argument wins? You are not a sound quality measurement device Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 hours ago, fas42 said: Recommendation? The "Art of Electronics" is a good place to start... Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, sandyk said: In which case you must believe that the series of 6 separate (by date) DBTs that I refer to, were either not correctly performed, or that around 8 repeats per session , all with positive results is inadequate ? What are the odds against results such as those being false results or not meaning anything ? We have an agreement from years ago that we will not discuss this subject Link to comment
marce Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 19 minutes ago, adamdea said: The problem with all of this is simply that it does not answer the question hobbyists ask. That question is roughly -please recommend me a box (transport/dac/amp/whatever) which costs about $x (varies) which will give me what I want, namely the ability to listen to kind of blue/patricia barber/whatever again and get the spooky sense that I am hearing new things. If the answer is, the limits of transparency have been reached with transports/dacs/amps/whatever -you are basically hearing what you can from this recording and the variations in your listening experience are largely down to other inputs. then that is just not the answer required. Try again. ...and of course believing (that a different box can make Patircia Barber sound like she is in the room) might just mean that it does (I bought a new box and it sounded as though Patricia Barber was in the room). So which argument wins? My box lets me have Patricia Barber and her piano in the room... Link to comment
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