Let's talk about SOTM SMS-200 ULTRA

[flkin]

21 hours ago, Thomas_2013 said:

I'am also interested in an external word clock!

There are different offers. On Ebay there is a used Antelope 10M Clock with two 75ohm outputs, of course there is an offer to the sCLK-OCX10 master clock, but very expensive - beside my sms-200ultra and the txb-ultra there is a additional sps-500 needed to setup the "4" devices. A alternative master-clock was offered from my dealer.. it calls 10M NCTR-Clock with internal Power Supply (230V) for 1500€.

Are there differences between the master-clock - 10Mhz??

 

Your equipment sounds like the same kind of group that is already being discussed in the Novel Way thread so you probably have read some of the work and discoveries there so you know that the sMS-200ultra already contains a decent clock. So to make the next jump I’d say you would have to go for a decent clock. The measure of a good master 10Mhz clock seems to be defined by both a low phase noise and good power supply. I have personally used the Mutec Ref10 and the Cybershaft OP14 so can vouch that these are significant steps above the basic sCLK-EX board found in the sMS-200ultra. Coming down the phase noise curve is expensive and moving just a single dBc/Hz can increase the price of the clock significantly. In the Cybershaft case the model OP14 represents -114 dBc/Hz at 1Hz and is significant pricier than the OP13 which measures -113 dBc/Hz at 1Hz. The Ref10 measures -116 dBc/Hz which is just 2 dBC/Hz less than the OP14 but is far pricier but does sound clearly better. I suspect this has also something to do with it’s well designed power supply too. The latest Cybershafts units of a month ago have phase noises even lower than. That said, I don’t know whether their power supplies are as well designed as the Mutec’s.

 

In summary go for the lowest phase noise and best supply matched to the clock that you can afford.

 

Then of course there’s the other way of not using master clocks at all but getting good OCXO clocks at the right frequencies close to where they are needed most eg CPU, USB, LAN etc. But too far off topic to discuss further. There are other clock threads that discuss this at length. 

[LowMidHigh]

7 hours ago, flkin said:

 

Your equipment sounds like the same kind of group that is already being discussed in the Novel Way thread so you probably have read some of the work and discoveries there so you know that the sMS-200ultra already contains a decent clock. So to make the next jump I’d say you would have to go for a decent clock. The measure of a good master 10Mhz clock seems to be defined by both a low phase noise and good power supply. I have personally used the Mutec Ref10 and the Cybershaft OP14 so can vouch that these are significant steps above the basic sCLK-EX board found in the sMS-200ultra. Coming down the phase noise curve is expensive and moving just a single dBc/Hz can increase the price of the clock significantly. In the Cybershaft case the model OP14 represents -114 dBc/Hz at 1Hz and is significant pricier than the OP13 which measures -113 dBc/Hz at 1Hz. The Ref10 measures -116 dBc/Hz which is just 2 dBC/Hz less than the OP14 but is far pricier but does sound clearly better. I suspect this has also something to do with it’s well designed power supply too. The latest Cybershafts units of a month ago have phase noises even lower than. That said, I don’t know whether their power supplies are as well designed as the Mutec’s.

 

In summary go for the lowest phase noise and best supply matched to the clock that you can afford.

 

Then of course there’s the other way of not using master clocks at all but getting good OCXO clocks at the right frequencies close to where they are needed most eg CPU, USB, LAN etc. But too far off topic to discuss further. There are other clock threads that discuss this at length. 

It's off the topic, but Mutec benefits from a steel enclosure and a square wave as well. It's designed for audio applications, whereas the Cybershaft is more general purposes, as the man behind it readily admits.

 

If you get the Cybershaft OT16 with 3 output ports, the price isn't that far from Mutec, which has 8 ports. However, the omh selector on the Cybershaft is a poor idea, at least according to Alex from Uptone. 

[flkin]

I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi.

 

Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. 

 

My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. 

[LowMidHigh]

14 minutes ago, flkin said:

I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi.

 

Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. 

 

My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. 

 

 

[LowMidHigh]

15 minutes ago, flkin said:

I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi.

 

Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. 

 

My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) , I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority. That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. 

 

I wonder if anyone can hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm ports or cables. I regularly mix them without issue although it’s frowned upon! Especially with such short distances we use in HiFi.

 

I never second guess engineers—above my pay grade. I just adhere to the specs, like a good boy. If it didn’t matter, the spec wouldn’t exist.

 

Furthermore, the more resolving the system, the easier the detection. That’s not an affront but an observation. I’m certain your system is incredible.

 

Also I wonder if square wave is ‘better’ than sine wave clock signals. No analogue wave outputs are totally square so it’s really very steep waves anyway which have issues of their own. Both Cybershaft and SOtM uses Sine outputs with their own good reasons. 

 

From combing multiple sources: square wave sets that gate with more precision than wave. Square is more difficult to implement.

 

My point is that nothing beats listening to the equipment in ones own system and forming your own opinion (I know this might be difficult in reality) ,

 

I concur.

 

I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority.

 

Which can be said of your opinions and theories as well. In fact, following your logic, we shouldn’t have any discussions at all. 

 

That said, I love the Ref10 and think it’s one of the better clocks out there. 

 

 Mutec is a serious company with pro heritage, which is a big plus in my book.

 

Happy new year.

[flkin]

1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

 

 

I would take other people’s opinion with a pinch of salt and their theories with even less authority.

 

Which can be said of your opinions and theories as well. In fact, following your logic, we shouldn’t have any discussions at all. 

 

...

 

Happy new year.

 

I speak mostly of my own experiences with the Ref10, OP14 and a bunch of 50 and 75 ohm cables. 

 

As hinted above,  my latest system has exceeded these already and I don’t used external clocks any more. 

 

Isnt it a great time to be an audiophile and to have so many options?

 

Happy New Year too, ?

[LowMidHigh]

36 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

I speak mostly of my own experiences with the Ref10, OP14 and a bunch of 50 and 75 ohm cables. 

 

As hinted above,  my latest system has exceeded these already and I don’t used external clocks any more. 

 

Isnt it a great time to be an audiophile and to have so many options?

 

Happy New Year too, ?

 

May I inquire what is your system, and how it has removed the need for external clocks?

 

[flkin]

It's not really about the sMS-200 ultra so I'll let you know privately?

[LowMidHigh]

26 minutes ago, flkin said:

It's not really about the sMS-200 ultra so I'll let you know privately?

pmed...

[Thomas_2013]

Thanks for all that helpful comments- Happy New Year to all of you!

[gordec]

Guys,

 

I’m thinking about getting the Ultra. As of now, my current setup at home doesn’t allow direct Ethernet connection to the router. I either have to do a wifi extender then run ethernet cable from the extender to the Ultra or use Powerline adapter. 

[Thomas_2013]

Hi gordec,

i think that no direct Ethernet connection to the router is a problem.

 

I use the Sotm sm200ultra in LAN-cabled connection to my fritz-box 7490 router.

There is a USB-connected HDD to the router configured as NAS and i have no gaps in sound (LAN)

You should have to connect to internet only for updates to the sotm, i think.

Before new cabling,  i used the devolo-LAN-500 connectors, but they were not stable -  LAN-cabling with additional G-Bit Hub works very good ;)

maximum traffic to the router is 30Mbit/s upload from PC to internal router using HQ-Player.

..sorry about my english..

Thomas

 

 

[Thomas_2013]

sorry i mean, no direct internet connection to the router is not a problem

[AMR/iFi audio]

2 hours ago, gordec said:

I’m thinking about getting the Ultra.

 

That's a good product to think about. Really, it is.

[gordec]

21 minutes ago, Thomas_2013 said:

Hi gordec,

i think that no direct Ethernet connection to the router is a problem.

 

I use the Sotm sm200ultra in LAN-cabled connection to my fritz-box 7490 router.

There is a USB-connected HDD to the router configured as NAS and i have no gaps in sound (LAN)

You should have to connect to internet only for updates to the sotm, i think.

Before new cabling,  i used the devolo-LAN-500 connectors, but they were not stable -  LAN-cabling with additional G-Bit Hub works very good ;)

maximum traffic to the router is 30Mbit/s upload from PC to internal router using HQ-Player.

..sorry about my english..

Thomas

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, AMR/iFi audio said:

 

That's a good product to think about. Really, it is.

 

Thanks. I just bought it. I bought a used one with clock input. I have no experience with clocks so I guess I probably won't even use it. I hope I can get it working with Jriver DLNA. My entire library is setup on the Jriver really don't want to move to another player. The Ultra will be feeding Pro iDSD.

 

You can use HQPlayer embedded with Jriver right?

[Thomas_2013]

my sotm-devices sms200-ultra, txb-ultra and sps-500 make the best sound quality!

..but my pink-faun I2S-bridge to the DAC (HDMI-input) is also good.. more powerful to the preamp..

[Thomas_2013]

sounds good, i only have a PCM-DAC but sound ist very nice..

[Thomas_2013]

i tried the hq-player from jussi together with muso-player and i am very satisfied..

[Thomas_2013]

..upsampling every track to 384k by software is nice ;)

[Thomas_2013]

to use roon i want to have a i3-powered nas first..

I think roon needs a lot of hardware-ressoures..

i am wrong?

[Thomas_2013]

hey godrec,

my experience.. it works with foobar over MPD&DLNA, Airfoil on Windows with Airplay, LMS, and HQ-player.. I do not have experience in minim-player..

 

[Thomas_2013]

my experience.. save the sotm-updates to several micro-SD-cards.. last updates i am not satisfied of..

problems with LMS to NAS and workgroup-settings (in europe)

[airguitar]

4 hours ago, gordec said:

Guys,

 

I’m thinking about getting the Ultra. As of now, my current setup at home doesn’t allow direct Ethernet connection to the router. I either have to do a wifi extender then run ethernet cable from the extender to the Ultra or use Powerline adapter. 

 

I have the sMS-200 Ultra and I personally use a Wireless Connector - like this Wireless Connector- and not a Wi-Fi extender (extenders are worse). I would not use a powerline adapter because they generate noise on the mains. My Wi-Fi connector works perfectly. I would recommend you buy and excellent wireless router to strengthen the link to the Wireless connector - see Auralic's recommended list here: Auralics Recommended Wi-Fi Routers

 

[gordec]

2 hours ago, airguitar said:

 

I have the sMS-200 Ultra and I personally use a Wireless Connector - like this Wireless Connector- and not a Wi-Fi extender (extenders are worse). I would not use a powerline adapter because they generate noise on the mains. My Wi-Fi connector works perfectly. I would recommend you buy and excellent wireless router to strengthen the link to the Wireless connector - see Auralic's recommended list here: Auralics Recommended Wi-Fi Routers

 

 

Thanks. I'll probably do that if wifi sounds better than even ethernet. I hope it will be fast enough to stream DSD. I only have DSD64 nothing higher. 

[aggielaw]

13 minutes ago, gordec said:

 

Thanks. I'll probably do that if wifi sounds better than even ethernet. I hope it will be fast enough to stream DSD. I only have DSD64 nothing higher. 

 

Are MoCa adapters an option for you?  Might be your best bet.