mmerrill99 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 This is called "testimony", and has some value. But its value is not elevated because it's used in the context of audiophilia. I hope we agree that's it's not equal to hard data or "evidence".Don't really follow you hereI can't speak to that. But again, there is consumerism in the mix, and a ton of psychological baggage that comes with it. And psychology has a mighty impact on perception and belief. Without any effort to address that impact, the testimony becomes less credible.You missed the bit where I said "if one comes to the same conclusions with a modicum of care in one's listening" Ultimately, this is all a personal, subjective evaluation which I believe one should afford oneself the freedom that one may be wrong, instead of all this absolutism. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Bohm was kind of a commie and... WORSE... the SNOWFLAKES HERE ARE NOT GETTING THEIR SAFE SPACE AND ARE ALL MELTING, RUINING MY GOAL OF SOME BACK-COUNTRY SKIING Link to comment
mmerrill99 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Again: What is materially wrong with me capturing playback with a two cables that may or may not affect the DAC output? I just explained the claim made: That bits aren't bits and mixed signal systems can have their output altered by cabling. That it's not an isolated phenomenon (more that one manufacturers cable, more than one system). So to test the claim of audible superiority of an Ethernet cable I put together a testing apparatus that allows for changing of cables while a track is being played. I posted those captured tracks for people to do ears on evaluation with. You said you could poke hole so start poking. But then again may be that you can't. Because something flies over your head you see no problem in making your claim "You said you could poke hole so start poking. But then again may be that you can't." Like a true pseudo-scientist, you have no sense of the weaknesses I have pointed to in your very cursory description. Link to comment
elcorso Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I think just found the answer, they changed the amount of sex by the quality of their audio cables In bold my assumption https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/americans-less-sex-study.html?_r=0 Roch Link to comment
jhwalker Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Ah come on - don't try to BS me & other readers - you are upset by someone unknown to you spending their money in the way they want? Give me a break & get real - it's this sort of attempt at self-agrandising & self-beatification that is puke-making. Oh dear - you are insulted that I find such an attitude hypocritical & sanctimonious? You need to get a thicker skin if you are going to assume that role. Again everybody has their own line where reality crosses over into fantasy but it is your own personal line & isn't a universal line defined by "science" (remember perception is involved & this is not fully characterised yet - I would also argue that audio systems & all the variables involved that are perceptible, are not yet fully defined. the arrogance of those who claim they have the "truth" & want to "teach" other this truth, are anti-science, IMO & yet they continually invoke science. OK, insulted again. Bye. John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Jud described his outlook on the forum as being like a good natured discussion / debate between friends at the corner pub. However, we all know that there is a range of interactions going on in a pub from couples swooning to fisticuffs. So, I figure he is right about forums but maybe not just in the way he thought. [emoji3] Forums (plural Fora?) are an exact representation of a slice of life. Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
wgscott Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 OK, insulted again. Bye. Well if one is on that extreme "side" of the debate, one don't have facts on one's own side (unless KellyAnne makes them up), so one has to engage in ad hominem attacks. The way I look at it, his ranting and raving is a tacit admission that he is simply incapable of holding his own and has lost the debate. I, and many many others here, really appreciate your contributions and generosity with very helpful advice and music recommendations. Link to comment
jhwalker Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Well if one is on that extreme "side" of the debate, one don't have facts on one's own side (unless KellyAnne makes them up), so one has to engage in ad hominem attacks. The way I look at it, his ranting and raving is a tacit admission that he is simply incapable of holding his own and has lost the debate. I, and many many others here, really appreciate your contributions and generosity with very helpful advice and music recommendations. Nice of you to say. Upsetting to be told that my genuine nature (kind and generous / altruistic) is a sham. I don't need that type of negativity . . . and with the "ignore" feature, won't have to put up with it John Walker - IT Executive Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system Link to comment
Johnseye Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Believe me I've asked for input before so here we go again: Michael Lavorgna is a bits aren't bits and we are dealing with 'Mixed Signal Systems'. HIS position is that an Ethernet cable can change the output of a DAC for this reason. He has heard differences in his own system with 4 or 5 Ethernet cables and also heard differences in other systems. Namely at trade shows in most likely sub-optimal rooms full of people. So I setup a client and server computer with Windows 7 (server) Windows 8 (client) with a Cisco SG 200-8 Managed Layer 3 switch. Ports 7/8 in a LAG going to the client computer and port 1 going to the server. The LAG basically takes the the 7/8 ports and builds out each at layer 2 with a virtual MAC address so you can swap cables with out breaking the TCP/IP session (since everything is going to the same MAC and that's isn't changing with the cable swaps). So now I can swap between a $27.50/foot cable at 12 feet and a $0.30 cable at 315 feet while playback remains uninterrupted. I take balanced out of the DAC and go into the balanced input of a Studio grade mastering card. Save the output as 24/192 (and the source was also 24/192). During the capture I swapped multiple times. Made the captures available for download and so far one person couldn't hear differences and another bombed on the guesses as to # of change and the time of change. What's wrong with this approach? I'd like to hear this if possible. Can you please PM me the link? Audio System Link to comment
Harpy Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I think it's up to the individual to make decision on cables. A good quality cable should last a life time, unless you have a Great Dan pup. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Computer Audiophile mobile app Dahlquist DQ-10 Speakers DQ-LP1 crossover 2 DW-1 Subs Dynaco Mk III Mains - Rotel 991 Subs Wyred W4S Pre Gustard X10 DAC SOtM dx-USB-HD reclocked SOtMmBPS-d2s Intel Thin-mini ITX Link to comment
mmerrill99 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Nice of you to say. Upsetting to be told that my genuine nature (kind and generous / altruistic) is a sham. I don't need that type of negativity . . . and with the "ignore" feature, won't have to put up with it Sorry to come across so bullish & ascerbic - I was railing against those who try to push an agenda with the excuse that they are concerned with others losing money or protecting them with the "truth" - you may well be very helpful with advice which is non-agenda driven, I don't know - I only judge what's posted & haven't followed your posts. So apologies if I caught you in the crossfire - it was really intended for those who are self-appointed "holders-of-the-truth" saving mere mortals from making mistakes. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Good, now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya (dibs on the blonde chick, BTW) Link to comment
wgscott Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Good, now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 When I started this thread, I knew that all the usual suspects would turn up in here and pour bile on everyone. I am a realist, and what I see is that adults will not be adults and that some people really enjoy creating thread after thread with the sole intention of ridiculing others. Believe me, man there is much less conspiracy going on here than you seem to perceive. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 a lot of exon shuffling there Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Good, now let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya Ok... And while singing it let's prove that the quality of the cable matters. (2:00) Link to comment
Jud Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Nice of you to say. Upsetting to be told that my genuine nature (kind and generous / altruistic) is a sham. I don't need that type of negativity . . . and with the "ignore" feature, won't have to put up with it Nor do you have to worry about anyone familiar with you on this forum believing it. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Jud Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 So apologies if I caught you in the crossfire A gentle and respectful suggestion: If you discuss rather than "fire," there is less need to apologize. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
mmerrill99 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 That's news to me. Can you give some citations to the scientific literature in cognitive psychology? I thought this was well known by those interested in these areas? Much of my reading of the research states it but it's such an accepted fact that I have to look for examples where it is explicitly stated. One example Psychology of auditory perception - WIREs Cognitive Science "One conclusion of this review is that it is time for auditory cognitive science to be developed to match what has been done in vision in order for us to better understand how humans communicate with speech and music." From here http://designingsound.org/2016/05/music-cognition-and-psychoacoustic-research-an-interview-with-dr-susan-rogers/ "So WAY more research time and money has been spent on mapping the visual modality. The growth of psychoacoustic research in the ‘70s and music cognition in the ‘90s has helped auditory science to catch up." How many citations do you actually need? Link to comment
mmerrill99 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 A gentle and respectful suggestion: If you discuss rather than "fire," there is less need to apologize.Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Point taken Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 about time for an epistemology argument... Link to comment
Jud Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 about time for an epistemology argument... First we have to get epist. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
esldude Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 First we have to get epist. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile Are you suggesting that Fire, ready , aim is not good methodology? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
STC Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 I am in that majority, ..... Me too. I believe in a well constructed cable. But somehow, well constructed cables to some mean those were made specially for audiophiles. ST My Ambiophonics System with Virtual Concert Hall Ambience Link to comment
NOMBEDES Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 At last, a cable thread about cable threads. Call me home Lord. In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now