Suggestion: ban all cable debates

[Keith_W]

The tone of this forum is really dragged down by all these stupid debates. It seems as if some posters have nothing better to do than to start threads to sneer at their fellow audiophiles. I don't think they even think of other audiophiles as "fellow" audiophiles, sharing a common hobby. Rather, a target of derision to be harassed and bullied. This is a good example. What purpose do threads like these serve? How does it benefit the community? Does it do anything but boost the narcissistic tendencies of those who endlessly create such threads? And why is it that they are not satisfied with only creating one - they have to do it over and over again.

 

This forum is called computer audiophile. There are plenty of other forums where these people can go and scorn those whom they perceive are inferior to them. I think it is time to get this forum back on track - discussion of computer based audio.

[r_w]

Easy solution...

 

Buy a soldering iron, some silver solder, some quality connectors, quality cable of choice and make your own cables to shortest lengths.

It always baffles me, when it's so easy to do, why people hand over the sums they do for this stuff.

 

Good cabling and connectors are important for system optimisation, however, there is nothing any boutique cable can do for your system that you cannot do yourself.

 

Regardless, I fear both your plea for these cyclical arguments to end and the common sense advice above will, in the main, fall on deaf ears.

 

As you were.

 

;-)

[firedog]

The tone of this forum is really dragged down by all these stupid debates. It seems as if some posters have nothing better to do than to start threads to sneer at their fellow audiophiles. I don't think they even think of other audiophiles as "fellow" audiophiles, sharing a common hobby. Rather, a target of derision to be harassed and bullied. This is a good example. What purpose do threads like these serve? How does it benefit the community? Does it do anything but boost the narcissistic tendencies of those who endlessly create such threads? And why is it that they are not satisfied with only creating one - they have to do it over and over again.

 

This forum is called computer audiophile. There are plenty of other forums where these people can go and scorn those whom they perceive are inferior to them. I think it is time to get this forum back on track - discussion of computer based audio.

 

Counter suggestion: Don't read or participate in those threads.

[Jud]

Counter suggestion: Don't read or participate in those threads.

 

 

Plus start or continue other threads on subjects closer to your liking. (I think buried in the threads that Keith_W is talking about are some valuable posts and discussions, but one has to wade through a fair amount of "noise" to get to the "signal" there, so I do understand the complaint.)

[realhifi]

Counter suggestion: Don't read or participate in those threads.

 

Amen. Never read the posts about cables. Too much drama.

[Keith_W]

Counter suggestion: Don't read or participate in those threads.

 

Actually, I don't. I open them every now and then and marvel at how unproductive these types of threads are. If you want to hear something objective, how about this: cable debates are as old as the internet itself. There will be no resolution. There will be no way forward.

 

Tell me again why people object to others buying cables? They think it is a futile waste of time? I can think of something else that is a futile waste of time.

[Jud]

Actually, I don't. I open them every now and then and marvel at how unproductive these types of threads are. If you want to hear something objective, how about this: cable debates are as old as the internet itself. There will be no resolution. There will be no way forward.

 

I agree with everything here except the very last sentence, and the latter is only because I've always been an optimist.

 

Tell me again why people object to others buying cables? They think it is a futile waste of time? I can think of something else that is a futile waste of time.

 

[4est]

Tell me again why people object to others buying cables? They think it is a futile waste of time? I can think of something else that is a futile waste of time.

 

There seems to be some contingents of posters that feel their path is the correct one, and it is their duty to protect and inform others they are lost without the guidance and inputs from their particular contingent.

[GUTB]

We should allow these threads. There is a generational/cultural divide amongst audiophiles: younger people with little disposable income vs older, wealthier people.

 

Older audiophiles are culturally less dogmatic about the world and desire better things. Younger audiophiles culturally reject things out of their reach, and so have to create and support a dogma in order to reject the upper end of the audiophile hobby. That's why some of us are continually frustrated by others who refuse to even listen to the difference between high-end gear and entry level stuff.

 

Making cable debate threads helps the younger audiophiles here support their dogma. It's a way for them to feel included as a sort of counter-culture within the community.

 

Sent from my LG-H820 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[blownsi]

I have to disagree. If we remove debates then we are removing opinions and then there is really no reason to have a forum. We would be left with Chris' Blog. While I like Chris and am very thankful for what he has done, I've learned just as much from forum members.

[Apesbrain]

If we remove debates then we are removing opinions and then there is really no reason to have a forum.

This is a good point. At their best, discussions here present new ways of thinking about issues and encourage experimentation. Because someone else believes they hear differences in cables does not mean that you will or should, but if you haven't tried it you need to keep an open mind to it. The experience of listening to music is both a physical and psychological event; it is unique for each of us.

 

Anyway, why "cable" debates? How are they any different than FLAC/WAV, DSD/PCM, SPDIF/USB, XLD/EAC, hi-res/redbook, CD-R "sound", or any number of other recurring subjective topics discussed here? It's a slippery slope. Ban them all and what would we talk about?

[Samuel T Cogley]

Actually, I don't. I open them every now and then and marvel at how unproductive these types of threads are. If you want to hear something objective, how about this: cable debates are as old as the internet itself. There will be no resolution. There will be no way forward.

 

Over at Hoffman, threads that venture at all into science or objectivity are summarily locked or deleted. You should head over there if cable threads are bothering you. In my experience, it's the "cable believers" that create the pigeon holes of "subjective" and "objective". It reminds me of the old theistic chestnut: "Without exception, everyone's theistic worldview must fall into one of these categories: monotheist, polytheist, atheist, or pantheist". Notice how "free thinker" is not an available choice?

 

Tell me again why people object to others buying cables? They think it is a futile waste of time? I can think of something else that is a futile waste of time.

 

You mean trolling the forum with faux exasperation at the envious peasants? Because that's really what we're talking about, right?

[wgscott]

The tone of this forum is really dragged down by all these stupid debates. It seems as if some posters have nothing better to do than to start threads to sneer at their fellow audiophiles. I don't think they even think of other audiophiles as "fellow" audiophiles, sharing a common hobby. Rather, a target of derision to be harassed and bullied. This is a good example. What purpose do threads like these serve? How does it benefit the community? Does it do anything but boost the narcissistic tendencies of those who endlessly create such threads? And why is it that they are not satisfied with only creating one - they have to do it over and over again.

 

This forum is called computer audiophile. There are plenty of other forums where these people can go and scorn those whom they perceive are inferior to them. I think it is time to get this forum back on track - discussion of computer based audio.

 

 

Let's take it one step further: Ban everyone you disagree with or don't approve of. Why not start by making a public list of people who do not hold acceptable opinions. It of course would be a great service to everyone, and could really help the audio-ideology police force to enforce your brilliant ban suggestion.

[wgscott]

There seems to be some contingents of posters that feel their path is the correct one, and it is their duty to protect and inform others they are lost without the guidance and inputs from their particular contingent.

 

Isn't that exactly what the OP's demand is all about, (but taking it one step further by banning discussion of an opinion he knows to be correct)?

[wgscott]

Older audiophiles are culturally less dogmatic (huh???) about the world and desire better things. Younger audiophiles culturally reject things out of their reach, and so have to create and support a dogma in order to reject the upper end of the audiophile hobby. That's why some of us are continually frustrated by others who refuse to even listen to the difference between high-end gear and entry level stuff.

 

So why don't we see similar debates regarding expensive vs. cheap speakers?

[Jud]

So why don't we see similar debates regarding expensive vs. cheap speakers?

 

We don't?

[Jud]

I think a good point Keith_W raised is that many of us love to heartily debate and discuss, but since this is after all an audio forum, we should try as far as we can to have an audio discussion rather than score debating points or get into personal remarks. If we do a good job, someone reading the thread later should be able to get food for thought about audio from most of the comments, regardless of the particular viewpoints of the commenters.

[Keith_W]

Let's take it one step further: Ban everyone you disagree with or don't approve of. Why not start by making a public list of people who do not hold acceptable opinions. It of course would be a great service to everyone, and could really help the audio-ideology police force to enforce your brilliant ban suggestion.

 

Certainly that's what I would do if I was running this forum. People who constantly stir up trouble get banned. Simple as that.

 

I might come from the same side of the objective divide as you, but I roll my eyes every time I see someone sneer at others. I am a member of many other audio forums, and I have stopped visiting quite a few - either because they have turned into cable/DBT cesspools or they have gone to the other extreme where they extol the merits of mysterious cable risers. I hang around CA because CA is something different - the only and best forum dedicated to computer audio.

 

I would hate to see this place turn into another cable/DBT cesspool.

[Samuel T Cogley]

I think a good point Keith_W raised is that many of us love to heartily debate and discuss, but since this is after all an audio forum, we should try as far as we can to have an audio discussion rather than score debating points or get into personal remarks. If we do a good job, someone reading the thread later should be able to get food for thought about audio from most of the comments, regardless of the particular viewpoints of the commenters.

 

Hi Jud

 

While I sincerely appreciate your reliable, "let's make lemonade" approach, the OP is trolling. He came here with an explicit desire to squash opinions he see as contrary to his own. His concerns about "tone" are just window dressing for his intolerance. YMMV, of course.

[plissken]

Why not promote people and their comments that have proven they can reliably hear differences in cables when their bias is controlled?

[wgscott]

We don't?

 

We don't seem to have any debates where one "side" says the laws of physics would have to be violated for one speaker to sound better than another. No one suggests that it is not possible for two well-made speakers to sound very different (unlike with various wires, files with identical checksums, and so forth). It is a fundamentally different sort of discussion, which really comes down to whether people think one speaker simply sounds better than another, or whether the price warrants the improvement, etc.

 

(I would much rather spend $5K upgrading my speakers than $5K on wire. With some careful shopping, I am pretty certain I could get a major and readily audible improvement in sound with better speakers, whereas I think the chances of improving my sound with more expensive (allegedly better) cables is extremely remote.)

[wgscott]

He came here with an explicit desire to squash opinions he see as contrary to his own. His concerns about "tone" are just window dressing for his intolerance.

 

Audiotaliban.

 

edit: Oh, I just noticed he singled out my thread! I'm popular.

[mourip]

I have to disagree. If we remove debates then we are removing opinions and then there is really no reason to have a forum. We would be left with Chris' Blog. While I like Chris and am very thankful for what he has done, I've learned just as much from forum members.

 

I agree. The whole point here is that there be a cordial exchange of ideas and opinion regarding the particular subject at hand. There are some real experts here that have excellent and realistic information to contribute. Unfortunately they are usually not the ones that seem to have something to prove.

 

...however I believe that what OP really wants is not to ban conversation on potentially contentious topics but that these discussions be carried out in a civil and respectful way. That seems to have changed over the past couple of years here. Increasingly there are personal attacks with not too thinly veiled name calling. All too often a new member posts an innocent question and then has to watch in horror as the usual suspects bring the thread to it's knees.

[wgscott]

Well, maybe the snowflakes need a safe space.

[Jud]

Hi Jud

 

While I sincerely appreciate your reliable, "let's make lemonade" approach, the OP is trolling. He came here with an explicit desire to squash opinions he see as contrary to his own. His concerns about "tone" are just window dressing for his intolerance. YMMV, of course.

 

There seems to be some contingents of posters that feel their path is the correct one, and it is their duty to protect and inform others they are lost without the guidance and inputs from their particular contingent.

 

Both of you guys make lots of valuable and interesting contributions, but IMHO these particular comments illustrate the problem of taking an audio discussion and making it about personalities.