Iso regen

[Superdad]

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

I'm a bit confused.

Maybe it's because Superdad post contains two totally different subjects ? Or is he talking about the same thing and how Uptone has solved the same problem iFi has ?

We solve our different issues in different ways.  And we discuss our designs in different ways.  We prefer to be up front about what our products do and how they do it. (Within limits of prudence regarding intellectual property--and in the time frame that is most strategic for us.  Why disclose certain things now before either of the two similar products are out?)

 

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

 

Is the only purpose of the uspcb to have the option to isolate the Vbus power with a switch ?

(And being a A>B adapter)

No, the primary purpose of the USPCB is to be the only true "solid" adapter--based on a circuit board which we have 100% control of impedance and shielding.  The Chinese adapters have 4 scrunched up wires molded in between their plugs.

The switch for turning off VBUS power was something easy to include, so I figured why not?  It has no relation whatsoever to the isolation of the ISO REGEN or of the SQ of the adapter itself.  Just tossed in a feature that some people like to use.  Frankly, if one is using the adapter at the output of a REGEN into a DAC that does not use VBUS power, then I don't even see the need to switch VBUS off--as it is not being used!

 

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

 

If so why can't a simple Sbooster Vbus isolator serve the same purpose. (+ a USB cable A>B)

Aside from the gender of the SBooster VBUS isolator being female>male 'A' and not a 'B' for going into a DAC, I am certain that it too is made with scrunched up wires molded in between the plugs--just 3 wires instead of 4.

 

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

And what is the reason for not offering a Vbus switch integrated to the ISO regen.

Space on the board and the fact that it is not a particularly important feature.  Plus it will be on our new USPCB.

 

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

The uspcb is offering something more than just optimal remove the Vbus power and being a A>B converter, and if so, why is not this something integrated into the ISO regen?

Integrated in what way?  The only way to "integrate" it would be for the REGEN to have a male USB 'B' plug as its output.  But we the decision long ago to not do that because there are many folks who can't physically place the REGEN right at the input of their DAC.

 

On 3/18/2017 at 1:31 AM, R1200CL said:

Is my understanding correct, that the uspcb will not be offered with the first batch of 200 ISO regen boards ?

I do not know where you got such information.  Don't believe anything about our products or plans unless John or I state it.

[pl_svn]

Alex... can you offer bot straight and "reversed" A-B plugs?

(my Audiophilleo has "flat side" up USB B)

[Superdad]

2 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

Alex... can you offer bot straight and "reversed" A-B plugs?

(my Audiophilleo has "flat side" up USB B)

Sorry Paolo, just standard and "B" turned 90-degrees are currently planned.  Your REGEN is fine to operate upside down.

[pl_svn]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

Sorry Paolo, just standard and "B" turned 90-degrees are currently planned.  Your REGEN is fine to operate upside down.

yup: it's been working upside down for... close to 2 years, right?

was only hoping that someday...  

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

No, the primary purpose of the USPCB is to be the only true "solid" adapter--based on a circuit board which we have 100% control of impedance and shielding.  The Chinese adapters have 4 scrunched up wires molded in between their plugs.

The switch for turning off VBUS power was something easy to include, so I figured why not?  It has no relation whatsoever to the isolation of the ISO REGEN or of the SQ of the adapter itself.  Just tossed in a feature that some people like to use.  Frankly, if one is using the adapter at the output of a REGEN into a DAC that does not use VBUS power, then I don't even see the need to switch VBUS off--as it is not being used!

 

Alex,

What's the full name of the USPCB or what des that mean?

I thought that the switch to switch VBUS power off was for DACs that don't need VBUS power so that the SQ will be better.  But your last sentence suggested something otherwise.  Would you mind to elaborate?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

Alex,

What's the full name of the USPCB or what des that mean?

I like to give our products short names that are easy to remember and to type.  USPCB seems easy.  It is a concatenation of USB and PCB (meaning Printed Circuit Board).  Rolls off the tongue well I think.

 

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

I thought that the switch to switch VBUS power off was for DACs that don't need VBUS power so that the SQ will be better.  But your last sentence suggested something otherwise.  Would you mind to elaborate?

The entire "cutting off VBUS power" thing started as a very minor tweak to not have the 5 volts capacitively coupling to the data lines along the length of the USB cable (that's the same reason for those "split" USB cables).

So it really only makes sense to do it at the computer end--to keep the 5V off the cable--if someone desires such.  And that is why the SBooster VBUS isolator has male 'A' (into the computer) and female 'A' (to just plug a standard A>B cable into it.

But our USPCB adapter is male 'A' to male 'B'--for connection from the output of a REGEN (or microRendu) to the input of a DAC.  If a DAC does not use/require 5VBUS, then it is likely that pin 1 (the 5V pin) of its 'B' input jack is not connected to anything.  So turning off the VBUS right there at its input does nothing really.  So I don't know why we decided to put a switch on the adapter.  Maybe I'm just stupid.

 

Now as far as cutting off VBUS before the ISO REGEN with some other cable or adapter, sorry, but unlike the USB REGEN (which itself ignores pin 1 at its input), the ISO REGEN requires 5VBUS to power the upstream side of its isolator chip.  No easy way around that.  Free lunch will not be served...

Ciao,

--Alex C.

P.S. I am starting to get used to the new CA forum system.  It's nice, and hey, I just noticed it got wider!  Yay!

Now if I could get used to not having to hit "return" twice to put to a space between paragraphs.

[spacexpert]

Would anyone please have knowledge on the following?

I remember reading about someone using a Regen for an external hard drive hook up.

So...

If I had an sms-200 and a single LPS-1 UltraCap, and I wanted to add an external 3.5" hard drive to one of the USB ports on the sms-200.  Could I go with the following...

sms-200 (LPS-1) < ISO Regen (LPS-1) > HD Dock with 3.5 HD* (*12V Wall Wart)

So there would be no power draw from the sms-200, as the ISO Regen is LPS-1 powered on the output side (something that wouldn't be achievable with an Intona?) and the noisy hard drive is now galvanically isolated from the sms-200.

Any thoughts on the ISO Regen performing that duty? ...And does signal integrity still apply in this usage?

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

But our USPCB adapter is male 'A' to male 'B'--for connection from the output of a REGEN (or microRendu) to the input of a DAC.  If a DAC does not use/require 5VBUS, then it is likely that pin 1 (the 5V pin) of its 'B' input jack is not connected to anything.  So turning off the VBUS right there at its input does nothing really.  So I don't know why we decided to put a switch on the adapter.  Maybe I'm just stupid.

 

Now as far as cutting off VBUS before the ISO REGEN with some other cable or adapter, sorry, but unlike the USB REGEN (which itself ignores pin 1 at its input), the ISO REGEN requires 5VBUS to power the upstream side of its isolator chip.  No easy way around that.  Free lunch will not be served...

Ciao,

--Alex C.

P.S. I am starting to get used to the new CA forum system.  It's nice, and hey, I just noticed it got wider!  Yay!

Now if I could get used to not having to hit "return" twice to put to a space between paragraphs.

I like the switch.  Now I understand the old method of "taping off" the 5V will not work.  Thanks for the explanation☺

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 So I don't know why we decided to put a switch on the adapter.  Maybe I'm just stupid.

I have several DACs that don't require vbus but still gain a SQ benefit when vbus is disconnected at the source.  The Auralic Vega  is one.

[jhwalker]

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

I have several DACs that don't require vbus but still gain a SQ benefit when vbus is disconnected at the source.  The Auralic Vega  is one.

I believe my LH Labs DAC may be the same - requires the power only to make the initial handshake, then it can be unplugged until you reboot either end of the connection.  May be my imagination but I think it sounds better after the power leg (even from a dedicated LPS) is removed.

[bunno77]

1 hour ago, jhwalker said:

I believe my LH Labs DAC may be the same - requires the power only to make the initial handshake, then it can be unplugged until you reboot either end of the connection.  May be my imagination but I think it sounds better after the power leg (even from a dedicated LPS) is removed.

I have the geek pulse with. Geek lps1. 

Does it still require the 5v for handshake from the Lps? Am I reading you correctly? 

I am considering a curious USB and making a connector for the 5v to connect/disconnect. May I ask what cable you are using?

[jhwalker]

2 minutes ago, bunno77 said:

I have the geek pulse with. Geek lps1. 

Does it still require the 5v for handshake from the Lps? Am I reading you correctly? 

I am considering a curious USB and making a connector for the 5v to connect/disconnect. May I ask what cable you are using?

Yes, it requires a handshake signal, provided via the split USB cable from the LPS.  

I'm using the yellow split cable they shipped with the DAC (forget what they call it), but regularly remove the power leg from the LPS after the handshake is complete, so that only the data leg is still attached.  Would be nice to automate that part

[bunno77]

1 hour ago, jhwalker said:

Thanks for the reply

Will have to try this

[Jud]

9 hours ago, pl_svn said:

yup: it's been working upside down for... close to 2 years, right?

was only hoping that someday...  

About time for the Regen to be able to sit right side up and your DAC to experience life upside down, eh?

I use a cable in between and am quite happy no longer having to fuss with adapters, though of course an adapter is likely cheaper.

 

[pl_svn]

8 hours ago, Superdad said:

P.S. I am starting to get used to the new CA forum system.  It's nice, and hey, I just noticed it got wider!  Yay!

it's fine on phones or tablets but definitely too narrow on a computer 

 

1 hour ago, Jud said:

About time for the Regen to be able to sit right side up and your DAC to experience life upside down, eh?

 

:evilplan:

[R1200CL]

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

No, the primary purpose of the USPCB is to be the only true "solid" adapter--based on a circuit board which we have 100% control of impedance and shielding.

Finally USB (cable) done right ?✅

This is something I like to try together with my MicroRendu. 

Possible to indicate an expected price (range) ?

And estimated availability ?

[Superdad]

17 hours ago, spacexpert said:

Would anyone please have knowledge on the following?

I remember reading about someone using a Regen for an external hard drive hook up.

So...

If I had an sms-200 and a single LPS-1 UltraCap, and I wanted to add an external 3.5" hard drive to one of the USB ports on the sms-200.  Could I go with the following...

sms-200 (LPS-1) < ISO Regen (LPS-1) > HD Dock with 3.5 HD* (*12V Wall Wart)

So there would be no power draw from the sms-200, as the ISO Regen is LPS-1 powered on the output side (something that wouldn't be achievable with an Intona?) and the noisy hard drive is now galvanically isolated from the sms-200.

Any thoughts on the ISO Regen performing that duty? ...And does signal integrity still apply in this usage?

Good questions.

First off, if the USB drive you are hanging off the sMS-200 is externally powered, then even directly connected (without a REGEN) will not make it a problem for the LPS-1 to power the sMS-200.  What we advise against is hanging a bunch of bus-powered drives off an sMS-200 which is to be powered by an LPS-1.

Frankly, it probably is not sonically ideal to play from sMS-200/USB connected drives--better to put the drives on the network.

But yes, what you describe will work.  As for if you will get sonic improvement in doing so is anyone's guess at this point (though there are a bunch of REGEN users using them with hard drives/SSDs/thumb drives.  Some of that stuff is bit too far "into the weeds" for me.  We designed the REGEN(s) for improved signal integrity/impedance match into a DAC--that's where the payoff is greatest.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Finally USB (cable) done right ?✅

This is something I like to try together with my MicroRendu. 

Possible to indicate an expected price (range) ?

And estimated availability ?

No price until we receive assembly cost quotes.  

Expect to have it available simultaneous with the ISO REGEN launch--so that people can add it to their ISO REGEN (or USB REGEN) orders--with a drop down order option--on day one.  And yes, they will also be offered separately.

[R1200CL]

21 hours ago, Superdad said:

Quote

Is my understanding correct, that the uspcb will not be offered with the first batch of 200 ISO regen boards ?

I do not know where you got such information.  Don't believe anything about our products or plans unless John or I state it.

OK. I may have been interpreting this post a bit creative ?

Anyway I understand some patience is required. 

And tanks for telling us that the USPCB will be available together with ISO regen. 

I shall keep quiet (hopefully). 

[pl_svn]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

And yes, they will be offered separately.

please Alex: change that to "they will *also* be offered separately" and, at least on launch day, make it one among "pull down" options on ISO Regen's page so that buying both is a single click 

 

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

please Alex: change that to "they will *also* be offered separately" and, at least on launch day, make it one among "pull down" options on ISO Regen's page so that buying both is a single click 

That has been the intention--and I even corrected my above post to read that way.  Thanks!

[mikicasellas]

Cant wait for both...

[Marco_TAM]

Hey Alex,

 

Really look forward to the ISO Regen!

But I was wondering how would the performance go compared to the combination of Intona and the old Regen?

It is often said that division of work (e.g. Intona deals with galvanic isolation + Regen providing cleaner usb power) is always better than doing it all in one place (in the case of ISO Regen)

So if the ISO Regen really outperforms the combination, I guess it would be a blessing to all of us as we can save a few bucks (I hope the new regen will not cost more than the two combined..lol)

 

Cheers,

[greenleo]

6 hours ago, Marco_TAM said:

Hey Alex,

 

Really look forward to the ISO Regen!

But I was wondering how would the performance go compared to the combination of Intona and the old Regen?

It is often said that division of work (e.g. Intona deals with galvanic isolation + Regen providing cleaner usb power) is always better than doing it all in one place (in the case of ISO Regen)

So if the ISO Regen really outperforms the combination, I guess it would be a blessing to all of us as we can save a few bucks (I hope the new regen will not cost more than the two combined..lol)

 

Cheers,

I doubt it would cost more than two combined☺

[Matias]

2 hours ago, greenleo said:

I doubt it would cost more than two combined☺

Or better yet combine the LPS-1 too in the same chassis and call it "ISO Regen UltraCap edition" or so.