Iso regen

[lmitche]

You should know I haven't heard the final version with the upgraded clock, so I am ready to be even more impressed.

[austinpop]

Can a single LPS-1 power both a micro rendu and an ISO REGEN?

 

+1

 

I think this will be one of the most important questions on people's minds!

[austinpop]

Rajiv, you are going to love the sound of the ISO REGEN!

 

Can't wait!

[Jud]

You should know I haven't heard the final version with the upgraded clock, so I am ready to be even more impressed.

 

+1

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[comedus06]

Detailed write-up is a 'nice to have' but the Iso Regen sounds like a 'must-have'. Just want to know when pre-orders open!

[jjraffin]

+1

 

I think this will be one of the most important questions on people's minds!

 

A big +1 from me too.

 

I'm currently running 2 lots of LPS1 + microRendu combos.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Superdad]

Can a single LPS-1 power both a micro rendu and an ISO REGEN? What if the target USB input device uses 5v? I have two cases ... an iFi micro iDSD and a Berkeley Alpha USB.

 

Ask and you shall receive. Here is a photo of a single UltraCap LPS-1 powering both a Sonore microRendu and an ISO REGEN--and the ISO REGEN is in turn powering/charging the power-hungry 100% bus-powered iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp.

This is really no different than doing the same chain with a USB REGEN--except in this case the ISO REGEN is using 5VBUS power from the microRendu to power the upstream side of the ISO REGEN's isolator chip. (Whereas the USB REGEN does not use any VBUS power.)

 

So yes, I just revealed the one installation/usage difference of ISO REGEN: It does require VBUS power for its upstream/input side. And, not that the "dirty" side requires it, but we use one of the ISO's 5(!) ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 voltage regulators to make 3.3V out of the 5VBUS for the isolator. They are pricy, so I guess we save a small amount by buying more for each, and their tiny size really helps since our little 2.5 square-inch ISO REGEN board already has 86 parts on it! (parts on both sides of the board now).

 

[greenleo]

Ask and you shall receive. Here is a photo of a single UltraCap LPS-1 powering both a Sonore microRendu and an ISO REGEN--and the ISO REGEN is in turn powering/charging the power-hungry 100% bus-powered iFi micro iDSD DAC/headphone amp.

This is really no different than doing the same chain with a USB REGEN--except in this case the ISO REGEN is using 5VBUS power from the microRendu to power the upstream side of the ISO REGEN's isolator chip. (Whereas the USB REGEN does not use any VBUS power.)

 

So yes, I just revealed the one installation/usage difference of ISO REGEN: It does require VBUS power for its upstream/input side. And, not that the "dirty" side requires it, but we use one of the ISO's 5(!) ultra-ultra-low-noise LT3042 voltage regulators to make 3.3V out of the 5VBUS for the isolator. They are pricy, so I guess we save a small amount by buying more for each, and their tiny size really helps since our little 2.5 square-inch ISO REGEN board already has 86 parts on it! (parts on both sides of the board now).

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33987[/ATTACH]

 

Does it mean that the IR doesn't take external PS? Or another LPS-1 at 3V may drive the IR as well(I know that it should be 3.3V from your post)

[Carcrashboy]

Hi, I am keen to pull the trigger as soon as the IOS Regen is orderable, could you please advise what added costs there maybe getting the product to the UK.

 

Thanks

[Superdad]

Does it mean that the IR doesn't take external PS? Or another LPS-1 at 3V may drive the IR as well(I know that it should be 3.3V from your post)

 

While I really need to stop and take the time to right a proper announcement of ISO REGEN--detailing its technical features, its functional usage, some comparison to others so "place in market" is understood, pricing, etc.--I just can not just at this moment (unless 125 people don't care about having their UltraCap LPS-1s shipped on time tomorrow ).

 

Since so many power supply crazed 'philes here (I love you all) are asking questions, here is the deal for ISO REGEN powering:

Because the ISO REGEN is providing true galvanic isolation--of data, grounds, and power--it requires separate power for the "dirty," upstream side of the isolator chip (the ISO REGEN's "Input"), and separate power for the isolated, downstream side.

 

That is why the ISO REGEN requires both USB VBUS power AND an external power supply. Other, non audio firms using the Silanna chip--by itself (yuck!)--just VBUS power and use a switching regulator across the "moat." We are doing things the right way.

 

The upstream side contains pretty much nothing besides the USB B jack, some VBUS signaling stuff, and one ultra-low noise regulator to turn required incoming 5VBUS (from the USB cable) into 3.3V for the upstream side of the Silanna isolator.

 

The downstream side (the other side of the "moat" across which the isolator chip sits) is where all the sonic magic happens. And there are 5 voltage regulators on that side, to separately power:

the downstream side of the isolator (1 reg);

the selected USB3.0 hub chip (with best signal integrity John has ever measured; 2 regs for that);

the Crystek 575 ultra-low-phase-noise clock (1 reg);

the big 1-amp regulator to provide clean 5VBUS to the USB output cable for those DACs that need it.

 

With the exception of the VUBUS output regulator (the ultra-low-noise TI TPS7A4700 as used throughout both the original USB REGEN and in the LPS-1), all the other regulators in the ISO REGEN are the ultra-ultra-low-noise (0.8uV RMS to 100kHz!) Linear Tech LT3042.

 

 

Thus it should be clear that the DC power jack of the ISO REGEN is for powering all the various downstream circuits. And using a really good supply for it pays off nicely. Of course the also isolated--leakage-current-blocking UltraCap LPS-1 is ideal for it (and in testing lately I think it makes a bigger difference for the ISO REGEN than for the USB REGEN--but that could just be because the ISO REGEN reveals so much more of the music--it is staggering.)

 

As for the input voltages the ISO REGEN can run from (coming in on the DC jack), the story is much the same as it is with the USB REGEN (read the USB REGEN's power FAQ). If you DAC does not draw ANY VBUS power from the REGEN, then input power can range from 5V to as high as 9V, as the devices running from the regulators at 3.3V are drawing very little, and at such low currents even the drop from 9V to 3.3V won't generate a lot of heat (though I will check with John about dissipation on the very small LT3042s).

But if your DAC needs VBUS power, then you have to feed our REGENs (both models) at least 6V since the regulator for VBUS needs to be able to drop some to regulate to 5V.

 

As far as the VBUS input to the ISO REGEN--just to run the regulator for the upstream side of the isolator--I am sure there will be some crazies here trying out VBUS injection to give it cleaner 5V. But that won't result in any sonic improvement because that mis-understands why VBUS-injection schemes sometimes improve things in the first place. I won't go through the litany of it now. Remember, isolation--from VBUS noise and leakage--comes as part of the ISO REGEN's design.

 

The whole point of the ISO REGEN--and why we persevered a whole extra year (we were ready with all the other REGEN enhancements back in March 2016)--is to give everyone a single tiny box to take care of everything in their USB path. No more crazy-daisy USB chains! One REGEN to rule them all!

 

[Think I'd best stop here. Nobody wants to read my cheesy marketing slogans. That's really not my thing. ]

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[R1200CL]

.......and when do you start taking orders ?

[Superdad]

.......and when do you start taking orders ?

 

As with all our past product launches, we will not take a single order until we can quote an accurate ship date. Too many companies will happily take your money with a "soft" ship date which then gets missed.

 

We are quite close. But we are not ready to announce the price or ship date just yet.

 

As before, everyone on our mailing list (which includes everyone who has ever bought from us or entered their e-mail at the bottom of our home page) will receive a pre-order announcement e-mail a day or two before the product web page "AddToCart" button goes live. Then, at 9:00 a.m. (California time) of the date indicated in the e-mail (and publicly on these forums the day before), the "AddToCart" button will appear on the page--and the first couple hundred units will likely be sold in less than an hour. (For the LPS-1, the first 120 sold in the first 5 minutes!)

 

Thanks everyone for your patience. I promise ISO REGEN will be worth the wait!

 

--Alex C.

[greenleo]

Great! Can I use an y cable to power both the microRendu and the IR at the same time? Will you provide a quality y cable in your IR package?

[Superdad]

Great! Can I use an y cable to power both the microRendu and the IR at the same time?

 

Sure. Read post #32 just above. I posted a photo of exactly that! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/iso-regen-31769/index2.html#post645281

 

 

Will you provide a quality y cable in your IR package?

 

No, I think doing so would really confuse people.

Just pick one up off Amazon. One like this if your target devices are close together: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE

 

Or one like this if what you want to power is far apart:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E9JATN0

[austinpop]

Great! Can I use an y cable to power both the microRendu and the IR at the same time? Will you provide a quality y cable in your IR package?

Sure. Read post #32 just above. I posted a photo of exactly that! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/iso-regen-31769/index2.html#post645281

 

Alex,

 

So, using one LPS-1 to power both sides of the ISO-R's "moat" is OK, from a leakage loop perspective? Since the mR is on the "dirty" side?

 

I can see why, since the LPS-1 is isolated from the AC mains ground, but just confirming.

[rickca]

No, I think doing so would really confuse people.

Just pick one up off Amazon. One like this if your target devices are close together: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE

 

Or one like this if what you want to power is far apart:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E9JATN0

I have a dumb question (no, it's not my first). Why is your first link one female and two males, but your second link is one male and two females? I personally prefer the latter configuration

 

Thanks for the picture. I haven't had a train set like that since I was little

[greenleo]

Sure. Read post #32 just above. I posted a photo of exactly that! http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/iso-regen-31769/index2.html#post645281

 

 

 

 

No, I think doing so would really confuse people.

Just pick one up off Amazon. One like this if your target devices are close together: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Q8IKRE

 

Or one like this if what you want to power is far apart:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E9JATN0

 

Hi Alex,

I know these but I want an Y-cable of high quality for SQ.

[Superdad]

I have a dumb question (no, it's not my first). Why is your first link one female and two males, but your second link is one male and two females? I personally prefer the latter configuration

 

As stated, if one needs to feed devices that are far apart, then use the second one (plugged into the PS) and then 2 DC cables. If the devices to be powered can be close together (not further that about the 8 inch spread of the 'Y'), then use the first one with 1 DC cable running back to the PS.

[Superdad]

Alex,

 

So, using one LPS-1 to power both sides of the ISO-R's "moat" is OK, from a leakage loop perspective? Since the mR is on the "dirty" side?

 

I can see why, since the LPS-1 is isolated from the AC mains ground, but just confirming.

 

Well yes. First off, there is no AC leakage current coming from the LPS-1. And secondly, powering both a microRendu (already Ethernet isolated) and the ISO REGEN--they form their own system together.

 

So while if you power both devices with a single LPS-1 you do lose the galvanic isolation--between the output of the mR and the output of the ISO REGEN--they are still isolated from the rest of the system. As explained earlier, the benefit of an ISO REGEN to microRendu users (really not our main target market) comes from all the rest of the enhancements to the REGEN (select 3.0 hub chip, Crystek 575 clock, etc.).

 

 

I'd really prefer that this thread not turn into a discussion of power supplies and microRendus...

[asdf1000]

Hi Alex, really dumb question here and apologies in advance.

 

But if I power the ISO REGEN with a cheap 7V wall wart, is the noise from this wall wart 'blocked' by the ISO REGEN internally?

 

Or this noisy power supply only regulated via the ultra noise linear voltage regulators but the power is NOT galvanically isolated internally, the way the Intona does full galvanic isolation of both power and data inputs?

 

Thanks in advance

[Superdad]

Hi Alex,

I know these but I want an Y-cable of high quality for SQ.

 

Alright, let's break this down.

To me high quality DC cable means decent gauge wire. Sure I enjoy silver-plated, Teflon-insulated wire for interconnects and speaker cables, but for DC I think what matters most is having a large gauge and a shield.

 

Twisted pairs--or better yet, star-quad--are great for keeping inductance low and in the case of star-quad, keeping the shield at an even distance. In fact, a heavy gauge, shielded, star-quad cable is what we ship with our big 5-7 amp JS-2. Four 18awg conductors--paired off makes for two 15awg conductors--plus the shield tied at one end. The end that does not have the shield tied looks like this:

 

 

Now those Oyaide plugs are the only DC barrels in the world that will take our big wire (and Oyaide has recently made them unusably smaller so I'm about to order 1,000 piece$ to get them to make me more of the original style as seen above).

 

Making these cables is hard enough as it is. I used to spend 20+ hours a month hunched over the bench making batches of them until I got smart and started paying an aerospace cable assembly firm to do it for me (they charge a lot but it's worth its to have my time back).

 

So custom "audiophile" DC 'Y' cables from UpTone? Not going to happen anytime soon.

 

The 27-inch, 16awg coax DC cable we ship with the LPS-1 is something I have custom made in China--1,000 at a time. And they are not happy about having to use thick 16awg wire. There certainly is no way they could mold two pieces of 16awg into one DC jack. I'm holding in my hand one of the Amazon 'Y' cables--the one with two males and one female. I think the 6 inches before the 'Y' split is 16awg coax, and the two males of the 'Y' look like they are on 6 inches of 18awg.

 

Both 16awg and 18awg are total overkill for a 1.1A power supply (which in the application being discussed will not even be asked for 0.75A)--especially in this very short length.

 

So if audiophile obsession drives someone to find or make a fancy, hand-made silver 'Y' cable, then go for it. Or maybe, as with the cottage industry in ultra-short USB cable "links" that cropped up around the success of the REGEN, some other company will start offering $130 DC 'Y' cables....

 

[austinpop]

So if audiophile obsession drives someone to find or make a fancy, hand-made silver 'Y' cable, then go for it. Or maybe, as with the cottage industry in ultra-short USB cable "links" that cropped up around the success of the REGEN, some other company will start offering $130 DC 'Y' cables....

 

 

What a curious idea!

[asdf1000]

What a curious idea!

Hilarious.

[austinpop]

Alex,

 

I'm going to be politically incorrect, and ask you this outright.

 

I currently use an Intona + RUR (powered by LPS-1) combo. If I were to replace with an ISO-Regen (powered by LPS-1), would I be a happy camper?

 

Note: I do NOT use an mR. I currently have the Aries Mini, but assume I'll be driving with an sMS-200 (powered by another LPS-1).

[louisxiawei]

Thanks for the information, Alex. However, I'm confused by this.

 

So while if you power both devices with a single LPS-1 you do lose the galvanic isolation--between the output of the mR and the output of the ISO REGEN--they are still isolated from the rest of the system.

 

Between output of mR and output of ISO regen? I thought it's between the output of mR and input of ISO regen and could you please explain a little bit more why the galvanic isolation is lost by doing this.

 

BTW, when I saw you connecting mR and ISO-regen together, I was thinking about maybe Alex is suggesting connecting Uptone regen and ISO-regen together would yield better performance (Just joking).

 

I'm having Intona + Sbooster vbus2 + Uptone regen in my system right now, can't wait for the ISO REGEN.