MQA is Vaporware

[John Dyson]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I note that you didn't even have the common decency to reply to my in depth reply to your  PM.

That says far more about you than it does about me.

 

 

 

 

I like Alex, and most of the other people on the forum seem to be good guys.  The ONLY answer is to do a careful experiment.  My earlier suggestion is a *first step*, but if we can qualify the tests adequately, then the answer can be obtained once and for all.

There *are* cases where transducers (headphones) and amplifiers can distort results.  This can make these discussions UNFAIR for all.

 

Even if above 20kHz energy cannot be heard, it is VERY likely that a *difference* of some kind can be heard.  We need to control the experiment so that everyone ends up being shown to be honest, forthright and etc etc.   The answer can be had, but it is so important for those with interest in the issues to 'sit back', 'carefully control the experiment' so that EITHER hypothesis can succeed.

 

It is tricky to do the tests correctly -- either of 'can hear' or 'cannot hear' must be able to succeed, but the test setup must also reflect exactly what is being disagreed about.

 

John

[FredericV]

11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

I note that you didn't even have the common decency to reply to my in depth reply to your  PM.

That says far more about you than it does about me.

 

Ad hominem. You still haven't explained why the internet would be degrading my audio files ... while I have shown it's not the case.

[Ralf11]

4 minutes ago, FredericV said:

 

Ad hominem. You still haven't explained why the internet would be degrading my audio files ... while I have shown it's not the case.

 

Have you considered that the internet is degrading his posts here and his pm's?  Maybe they were perfectly rational when he sent them, but became noise infected crazy rants during transmission over the internet.

 

A fine Kettel of Fish...

[John Dyson]

1 minute ago, FredericV said:

 

Ad hominem. You still haven't explained why the internet would be degrading my audio files ... while I have shown it's not the case.

I really believe that a good experiment needs to be done (controls), or all it will be is hurt feelings and butt heads.  I have my own opinon on the matter...  Rudeness is awfully hard to avoid when two parties really believe in their case.  Linus and I used to have knock-down/drag-out fights.

 

Maybe, if I can get up the energy and spend the several hours, create an experiment that is FAIR (both sides COULD result in success), but also finds out what is going on.   I believe that Alex IS hearing a difference -- but it needs to be analysed.  I dont' think that the situation is made up.

 

John

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

2 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

I really believe that a good experiment needs to be done (controls), or all it will be is hurt feelings and butt heads.  I have my own opinon on the matter...  Rudeness is awfully hard to avoid when two parties really believe in their case.  Linus and I used to have knock-down/drag-out fights.

 

Maybe, if I can get up the energy and spend the several hours, create an experiment that is FAIR (both sides COULD result in success), but also finds out what is going on.   I believe that Alex IS hearing a difference -- but it needs to be analysed.  I dont' think that the situation is made up.

 

John

All good and well. But crazy is as crazy does. 

[Ralf11]

John, I'd rather see you put that effort into USB cables.  Might be something going on there...

[John Dyson]

Just now, Ralf11 said:

John, I'd rather see you put that effort into USB cables.  Might be something going on there...

I don't do 'USB' cables :-).

 

BTW -- I misunderstood the context (wrong experiment), but the experiment idea is valid.  I do believe that there is a difference in the way that the software/hardware is working for differing file types (for Alex.)   I think that I trust Alex enough to know he is hearing a difference -- but most of us aren't EE/analog/DSP types like I am.  SO, I would take it for a different situation, and might not even had mentioned what difference I would have heard -- because I would have understood the source of the problem.

 

* I now understand that it wasn't the res issue, but more of a file format issue.

 

It is SO WRONG to misinterpret Alex as being 'off the wall'.  These crazy computers can have AMPS/many Watts difference in draw for differences in programs being run.   I am not claiming this to be the issue - but there IS an honest difference.

 

John

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

Just now, John Dyson said:

I don't do 'USB' cables :-).

 

BTW -- I misunderstood the context (wrong experiment), but the experiment idea is valid.  I do believe that there is a difference in the way that the software/hardware is working for differing file types (for Alex.)   I think that I trust Alex enough to know he is hearing a difference -- but most of us aren't EE/analog/DSP types like I am.  SO, I would take it for a different situation, and might not even had mentioned what difference I would have heard -- because I would have understood the source of the problem.

 

* I now understand that it wasn't the res issue, but more of a file format issue.

 

It is SO WRONG to misinterpret Alex as being 'off the wall'.  These crazy computers can have AMPS/many Watts difference in draw for differences in programs being run.   I am not claiming this to be the issue - but there IS an honest difference.

 

John

 

Please, c'mon now...perhaps a few pints before this last post?

[FredericV]

10 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Have you considered that the internet is degrading his posts here and his pm's?  Maybe they were perfectly rational when he sent them, but became noise infected crazy rants during transmission over the internet.

 

A fine Kettel of Fish...

Maybe it went through and MQA encoder

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

Just now, FredericV said:

Maybe it went through and MQA encoder

...the encoder in the cloud? 😎

[kumakuma]

7 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

I don't do 'USB' cables :-).

 

BTW -- I misunderstood the context (wrong experiment), but the experiment idea is valid.  I do believe that there is a difference in the way that the software/hardware is working for differing file types (for Alex.)   I think that I trust Alex enough to know he is hearing a difference -- but most of us aren't EE/analog/DSP types like I am.  SO, I would take it for a different situation, and might not even had mentioned what difference I would have heard -- because I would have understood the source of the problem.

 

* I now understand that it wasn't the res issue, but more of a file format issue.

 

It is SO WRONG to misinterpret Alex as being 'off the wall'.  These crazy computers can have AMPS/many Watts difference in draw for differences in programs being run.   I am not claiming this to be the issue - but there IS an honest difference.

 

John

 

 

Good luck with trying to find rational explanations for what he believes about digital files.

 

Many men before you have tried, none have succeeded.

[John Dyson]

5 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Please, c'mon now...perhaps a few pints before this last post?

No, I have seen too much good from Alex to immediately assume that he is not hearing a difference.  I know that on my system, I wouldn't hear a difference ---  I interchange 24bit flac/24bit wav, 32bit fp wav, etc freely.   There are no audible (or almost any effects as to the values -- minor for fp difference) differences.

There is something going on in the equipment/setup (I am 10kmiles away -- cannot evaluate it) that I dont' understand.

 

If Alex is hearing something 'wrong', there is a reason for it -- but it would be wrong to claim that it is a personal issue.

 

John

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

3 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

No, I have seen too much good from Alex to immediately assume that he is not hearing a difference.  I know that on my system, I wouldn't hear a difference ---  I interchange 24bit flac/24bit wav, 32bit fp wav, etc freely.   There are no audible (or almost any effects as to the values -- minor for fp difference) differences.

There is something going on in the equipment/setup (I am 10kmiles away -- cannot evaluate it) that I dont' understand.

 

If Alex is hearing something 'wrong', there is a reason for it -- but it would be wrong to claim that it is a personal issue.

 

John

Please. With 80% hearing loss, there is zero credibility, and that does not take into account many other bizarre observations.

 

You don't have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, this is not a utopian commune. 🤠

 

There is nothing to debate further about this topic...this is 2019, there are no software or hardware quirks that can account for this nonsense. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

6 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Good luck with trying to find rational explanations for what he believes about digital files.

 

Many men before you have tried, none have succeeded.

Exactly. Enough with the velvet gloves. Bullshit is bullshit..

[KeenObserver]

Talk about a thread being run off track!

 

I know!  Start a thread where GUTB, Sandyk, and PaulR can have a truly brilliant discussion amongst themselves without us simpletons interfering.

 

I know that I would absolutely subscribe!

 

Did I do that with a straight face?

 

And to get back on topic,  MQA truly sucks.  It's adoption would be a true disaster for the music consumer.

[KeenObserver]

Once people have a collection of MQA music, you know that someone will come out with a newfangled scheme that will offer "re-blurring".

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

2 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

Talk about a thread being run off track!

 

I know!  Start a thread where GUTB, Sandyk, and PaulR can have a truly brilliant discussion amongst themselves without us simpletons interfering.

 

I know that I would absolutely subscribe!

 

Did I do that with a straight face?

 

And to get back on topic,  MQA truly sucks.  It's adoption would be a true disaster for the music consumer.

It is their capacity for magical thinking that allows them to continue to entertain MQA. Add Manny Handler. Maybe not so much sandyk, as bizarre as his claims can be, he has decided MQA is bogus.

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

And to get back on topic,  MQA truly sucks.  It's adoption would be a true disaster for the music consumer.

 

Perhaps FredericV's X sample went through the MQA Sausage  Encoder ?

 

It sounded dull and boring, and a little compressed compared with his Y sample ,which is way more open sounding with the appearance of improved dynamics. The Y sample also sounds a little softer right from the start as well.

Yes, he made them both as 24/96 files so there could be no cheating.

[jabbr]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Sure, but live to two track digital PCM or DSD is far more high fidelity. 

 

Certainly, but old recordings don’t have that option. New recordings should be done in hi-fi eg using the RME ADI or similar

[crenca]

1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

 

If Alex is hearing something 'wrong', there is a reason for it...

 

John

 

Respectfully, this is audiophiledom.  People "hear" things all the time. 

 

Alex in this case (probably there are others) is saying (and has said for a long time) that identical (bit) PCM files have a "sound" beyond the information itself.  Not only that, but this sound changes, say when the file is transmitted from one device to another (even though the bit information remains exactly the same).

 

Most audiophiles (what, 98.5%?...or is it 99.79876%) don't have a clue about digital anything, or even really analogue anything.  Heck, they have no more grasp of sound as pressure wave through medium than they have of the basic principles behind the inner principles of the internal combustion engine in the vehicle they drive every day - they only know that when the press the gas, it goes.

 

[Rt66indierock]

The Vulture I saw by the 16th green this morning playing golf says hi.

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

The Vulture I saw by the 16th green this morning playing golf says hi.

 

 Do the MQA mob play Golf ? Let's hope the vulture is there to snack on the MQA carcass.

[Rexp]

10 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Respectfully, this is audiophiledom.  People "hear" things all the time. 

 

Alex in this case (probably there are others) is saying (and has said for a long time) that identical (bit) PCM files have a "sound" beyond the information itself.  Not only that, but this sound changes, say when the file is transmitted from one device to another (even though the bit information remains exactly the same).

 

Most audiophiles (what, 98.5%?...or is it 99.79876%) don't have a clue about digital anything, or even really analogue anything.  Heck, they have no more grasp of sound as pressure wave through medium than they have of the basic principles behind the inner principles of the internal combustion engine in the vehicle they drive every day - they only know that when the press the gas, it goes.

 

So you keep saying, over and over again.. You must be getting bored by now. Why not switch to a fine wine forum and berate those who use their sense of taste to judge quality. 

[Rt66indierock]

19 minutes ago, Rexp said:

So you keep saying, over and over again.. You must be getting bored by now. Why not switch to a fine wine forum and berate those who use their sense of taste to judge quality. 

 

I know people who pay to blind test wines. Personally I select wines with a simple criteria. Have I met the vineyard  owner with an errant tee shot?

[Ralf11]

40 minutes ago, Rexp said:

So you keep saying, over and over again.. You must be getting bored by now. Why not switch to a fine wine forum and berate those who use their sense of taste to judge quality.