A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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5 hours ago, cool_chris said:

Why Taiko extreme is far better sounding than pinkfaun 2.16x ?

If Taiko is using stock clocks ?

There must be something we dont know and Taiko staff knows.

Taiko have tried to add the super moded clocks and it was always worst than with original clock.

I really wanted to know why is that ?

 

 

I haven't heard the SGM Extreme although I almost had a chance in Hong Kong but was too busy to pop into Volent despite making an appointment.

 

At this level "far better" is difficult for me to accept as it's graduations of improvements and even preferences. I recently listened to a re-clocked Esoteric Grandiso stack, an Airforce One, ClearAudio Statement and an Micro Sx8000 in a home environment through some Wilson Alexandriers. None could hold up against a single box clocked 2.16x. It's possible that the SGM Extreme is better but it would have to be pretty darn special to be so!

 

As to why Taiko decided not to use low phase noise clocks, it's up to them but their design decisions does not negate the benefits I'm hearing with my 2.16x with its extreme clocks. Having played with clocks for a few years, I'm skeptical when someone says clocks don't matter. They always do.

 

3 hours ago, cool_chris said:

..

I think base cost of 11K  PF and 20K for Extreme reflects the difference in SQ.

 

 

That's absolute nonsense. Price has nothing to do with sound quality. 😂😂😂

 

Sorry couldn't help it, that's just asking for it!

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14 hours ago, austinpop said:

@cool_chris

 

Unless someone who hasn't spoken up steps in, it seems clear we do not have any thread participant who's done a side-by-side of the Taiko SGM Extreme, the PF 2.16 1 or 2-box solutions, and the best custom DIY server or server/endpoint represented by Roy's latest build.

 

Given that, let's not go down the rathole of hand-waving comparisons of things we haven't heard. From your tone, you seem inclined to buy the SGM Extreme, and if you can afford it, go for it. 

 

My own perspective - and I'm not asking anyone to share or adopt it - is that given the pace  discoveries we make here, I am not comfortable plonking down $20-30k to any server manufacturer, because I'm convinced a year from now, the state of the art will have moved on significantly. I am far more comfortable spending that on a speaker, or possibly an amp. Others may disagree. With regard to the pre-DAC computer chain, this is one of the main reasons I prefer to dabble and experiment.

 

Also, this thread tends to attract people who like to DIY, or at least experiment, while these über-expensive servers are geared toward people who want simplicity, not spaghetti. For example - and this is a genuine question for those who might know - do Taiko and/or Pink Faun allow, or at least tolerate, experimentation with other software and OSes? Are their BIOSes unlocked enough to enable you to try Euphony on an SGM, or Windows Server on a Pink Faun?

 

 

Given this impressive collection, and your self-proclaimed expertise with building servers, you could certainly go down the route of building a server along the lines that Roy has described (see the index in the first post, or search for posts by romaz). Even if all 6 of your SR7's are single rail, you have enough rails to get this done.

 

So true Rajiv, this thread is all about experiments and results and by nature mostly affordable. It's here I learnt and experimented with all the ideas brought up in this thread before committing to a branded server that best encapsulated all I felt was critical to the sound. How else can one choose from a range of streamers all claiming to be good? 

 

Jord at Pink Faun allowed the user to choose the OS. Earlier versions of the streamer had a version of the Windows server. But the later models went with AL and he suggested strongly to use it. Given all the positive results reported, I'm thinking of trying out the Euphony for fun. Shouldn't think it's difficult to boot from a USB stick but probably will take just time to organise.

 

Sorry for my bit of hand waiving, back to discoveries and results.

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11 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

For those curious about PF 2.16, here is a good review of it but unfortunately it is not comparing with other servers but it does discuss various setups of USB vs SPDIF etc. and something about the ultra-clock they use too.

 

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/music-server-reviews/pink-faun-2-16x-1-3/

 

I did a few detailed write ups about the streamer in the 2.16x thread some time back. It covers why I chose it, the technology and compared it with a few Antipodes streamers available to me at that time.

 

Just posted in the same thread my findings of upgrading the PF USB OCXO clock. My listening tests of another 2 clock changes for the motherboard and CPU are complete but no time to write it up yet.

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18 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

NOt sure, I don't even know how their new super OCXO clocks can be used with the motherboard. I presume using it somehow would bypass the original integrated CPU clock on the motherboard.                    

 

Just installed one in my Pink Faun 2.16x. The board has 2 clocks, one for the motherboard and one for the CPU. Described here :

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/43629-pink-faun-216/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-967042

 

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15 hours ago, Nenon said:

Let's talk about the SR7.

Yes, SR7 is unobtainable. I have never had a chance to try one. And I probably would never do. Sometimes I wonder if the SR7 is really that good or it's the fact that people can't get it that makes it so desirable to the point that it became legendary. There is a very small number of those power supplies ever made, and yet so many people talk about them. I bet most of those people, just like me, have never heard one in their system. 

 

So let's not split this into a thread of people with SR7's and everyone else (aka mortals). And let's not say that the only alternative for the mortals is a NUC solution. 

 

There are other power supply alternatives. Sean Jacobs at Custom HiFi Cables is a good example. He has learned a lot from his work with Innuos. In my opinion, the way the power supply on the Innuos Statement was designed might be even a better approach than using a SR7 with long umbilical cords. Here is a good article explaining the distributed design on the Statement:

http://www.the-ear.net/how-to/power-supply-design-innuos-statement

 

I am OCD when it comes to that stuff. I have a Sean Jacobs power supply. It sounds a lot better than the sBooster, LPS1.2, etc. in my system no matter what I power with it. A huge excellent quality oversized (400VA) toroidal transformer is a key part of it. I have also gone the Statement distributed power supply approach with the transformer and the recap modules in one chassis and the regulators in another chassis with the motherboard. I have 4 separate rails going to the motherboard (3 for the ATX connector and one for the CPU). My cables from the regulators to the motherboard are between 1'' and 3''. They are 15.5AWG Mundorf Silver/Gold - https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-72180.html. Expensive but really good. Every wire has the JSSG360 shielding, even those that are 2'' long. Yes that requires soldering, but attention to every detail pays out. I have heard the difference between having a long wire from the regulators to the motherboard and a short wire. I can also hear a difference between the different types of wire I use there, no matter how short they are. Amazing stuff, and to be honest if someone told me those little things make a difference I would not believe that. 

 

So, the question is if someone can give me a SR7 with two rails, would I replace what I have now? I would have to install a Pico DC to DC ATX converter  and use one rail for the ATX. And another rail for the EPS connector. And use 1 meter long cables for that. I don't know. Actually, I highly doubt it. There are too many compromises in such a solution - the long umbilical cords, the shared DC rails, less DC isolation, all that cross-contamination, the DC to DC converter, etc. I would certainly try it if I had that chance. But my point is that the SR7 is not a perfect solution either. The transformer in the SR7 is half the size of the transformer I use. And no, I did not just get a big transformer from eBay, but an expensive custom one made to order with every trick that can help reduce noise and lower the impedance. The Mundorf capacitors Sean uses look a lot bigger and better quality than those on the SR7. Yes, the SR7 uses a magical custom regulator, that is supposedly the best in the world, but can that make up for all the other compromises taken here? Maybe it can, maybe it can't; I don't know. 

 

Sean Jacobs is just one solution out there. I am sure there are more. It just happened that's the one I am familiar with. I suggest instead of splitting this thread between mortals and immortals we go out there and explore the current solutions on the market, try, test, listen, and report back our findings. 

 

 

Paul Hynes and Sean Jacobs uses the same transformer supplier - Terry Monaghan from UK

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I wonder how many people have actually heard the SGM Extreme and the Pink Faun 2.16x?
 

Preferably in the same system? They have both been out for a while now. 

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I’m really curious if anyone has hear both the SGM Extreme and the Pink Faun 2.16x and compare the nature of the sound. 
 

It’s a comparison of a 2 box system (2 CPUs in one box) with the Extreme and a 1 box/CPU system using software to assign different cores of the CPU to act like a 2 box system with the Pink Faun. 

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For those that are using Euphony in their systems, I've made a useful discovery to allow Stylus to play alongside Roon/StylusEP without having to switch from the menu.

 

Have fun! 😄

 

 

 

[flkin]

Tried the MonoPrice Optical USB 10m cable for a week+ now. From my Pink Faun 2.16x streamer USB out through the MonoPrice then through my Habst USB Ultra III cable and to my Vinnie Rossi DAC2.

 

In my setup, the addition of the optical cable doesn't add to the sound, yes it seems to make sounds tighter somewhat like using upsampling but at the same time makes the sound thinner and less organic. Soundstage is noticeably smaller. Ultimately I am removing it and have passed it on to friends to play with.

 

Experimented with the short Uptone USB connectors without any substantial change in sound character.  

 

The Monoprice gets pretty hot during use - as hot as Uptone devices!

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19 hours ago, Nsxturbo said:

Thought I’d chime in to let you know, my first Monoprice USB fiber converter got very hot. I ordered a second one from Amazon and it barely gets warm. I returned the first one. It works wonderfully in my system and I will be keeping it.

Were there any differences in sound perceived between the two cables?
 

Can I assume that you used both cables in the same settings and arrangement?

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On 6/2/2020 at 9:05 AM, Nenon said:

 

Larry - just for the record I have done that too. Highlighting a keyword from my previous post. 

I have tried LT3045 as well as a much better power supply. Good LPS definitely helps, but USB storage just does not work well in my system. But the important part is that this is system dependent.

My system is using single server high powered CPU(s), and is tweaked differently than others. What works on my single CPU Euphony/Stylus server does not work on my dual CPU Windows/Roon server and vice versa. I have no reason to believe that what works for me would work on a dual box server/streamer configuration running AudioLinux. So an external HDD enclosure connected with a SlimRun USB cable and powered with a good LPS (i.e. LT3045 or better) may work very well in some systems.

 

The ultimate local storage for me is either a PCIe Optane card or what @Nsxturbo just posted:

I would probably go even a step further and use Apacer wide temp industrial NVME M.2 drives. It would give me less storage but I can install multiple cards.

 

As far as optical isolation goes, I have found that it always changes the sound. And the sound is never changed for good only. Many network experiments on my network have been done recently, and there is only one place where putting optical isolation was 100% improvement without any negative impact. And that is between my Ubiquiti EdgeRouter and my WiFi access point - this is a fiber optical cable that is not on my streaming path, but galvanically isolates the noise of my WiFi from my router (which is in my streaming path). 

 

That's at least my experience so far. 

The SlimRun optical usb cable doesn’t work for me too. Between my Pink Faun 2.16x streamer and my Vinnie Rossi DAC2 through a Habst Ultra III USB or a short connector from UpTone, it doesn’t add any benefits and adds a harder sound  without more detail. 
 

I’m thinking the clock inside or the conversion isn’t all that good. After lending it to friends for their input I returned it. 

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14 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

...Modifications which are not visible in the photos are the four vibration dampers attached to the bottom of the clock board (one for each corner) and custom Pink Faun wire in the DC cable powering the clock module.  (This is the same wire used in their streamer products)

 

The wires you are referring to is probably the PCX wire Pink Faun uses in their high end streamers. It’s a tin-coated extruded copper wire strand encased in Teflon. Sort of like the Duelund cables I suppose but those are wrapped in oiled cotton instead. 

I have some more info to contribute in the near future about this wire as I’m currently breaking in a Pink Faun Ultra Powercord made of the similar wires and plan to compare it with the Nordost Valhalla power cord. Will post my findings in AS. 
 

Great job on the switch mods, looks promising. 😄

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14 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

I remember Nenon told me that also (too soft etc) before he installed the PF Ultra Clock, after his handy DIY work he didn’t hear any negatives, just improvements. 
 

I would imagine it’s clock dependent, or quality of the clock. 

Yes I have 3 Pink Faun Ultra clocks in my streamer handling the motherboard, the CPU and USB awaiting a 4th clock for the LAN. They are all independently powered.

 

I can assure that good clocks don’t make the music soft. In fact the dynamics and details is unbelievable on some media. 

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@ASRMichael, yeah sort of collected things over the years. I’m not really into selling stuff, mostly give them away or on extended loan to friends.
 

Yup, Symposium is really good, they actually do makes a difference! I think it was you that has their svelte platforms under speakers? Interesting technique. I’m using Townshend Podiums for vibration management there. Vibration management isn’t analyzed much on this site but I find it as big a difference as many of the electronic optimizations discussed here. 

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15 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Anyone know why Pink Faun uses tin coated copper?  I know why it's used in many analog systems and am wondering if PF is using it to tame digital brightness. 

 

I've made speaker cables from the old Western Electric tin coated copper. I have pure silver speaker cables, pure copper cables and silver coated copper. I know well what each do to the sound at that point in the system. Tin coated copper will dull the sound. Dull may not be the best adjective but it's close. 

In my system I’ve tried Duelund’s tin plated copper XLR interconnects (used) and their bare speaker wires (new) in the past. Its been sometime since then but I recall my experience with them was not dull sounding but hard and unsophisticated. Rough. My set had oil baked cotton sleeves and no shielding. 
 

Perhaps the final sound depends on the dielectric? The PF versions use Teflon I’m told. Their Ultra power cords are completely different in character despite using the same tin/copper so far in the burning in stage. Right off the bat, they sound focused, detailed and offer a huge soundstage. But also hard (this changes and I’ll discuss it in my review later).
 

Another thing about the PF wires, I feel they need an extended burning in time. My PF streamer had a sudden undeniable jump in sound quality long after I purchase it for no apparent reason. I finally concluded it might have been due to burn in. So as an experiment, I’m returning to a full tin/copper loom (power, USB, interconnects and speaker) mixture of PF and Duelund cables but will do an extended burn in of all cables first using my FryBaby2 device before listening. 

[flkin]

Here’s something different to network switches and the like. Those who know me, know I don’t post all that much but every now I dump a huge post about my findings and latest gadgets. So be warned for a 20 min read if you want to continue reading. 😄

 

It has been an HiFi annus horribilis for me until recently.

 

I was on a good run having updated my Pink Faun 2.16x streamer with their new ultra clocks last year and have been enjoying good music since then. But as with most hifi afficianados, the upgrade bug bite me again. What’s next?

 

Following others on AS and reading what they have been working on, I decided to order the EtherRegen in October immediately after it was announced and also try the Monoprice SlimRun optical USB cable a little later.

 

Turns out that both didn’t work out for me. Disappointed that the I didn’t experience the benefits that many here reported with the EtherRegen, I eventually concluded it might be something else in my system that caused the unnatural detail and harder sound the EtherRegen uncovered. I passed the unit to K.Nonn, the owner of Fidelizer and to another HiFi enthusiast after that, both of whom commented positively about the sound.

 

I had high hopes for the Monoprice too after reading Romaz’s strongly positive comments - placing it in between my streamer and the DAC, theoretically it should stop any leakage currents between the 2 devices. Didn’t work, sound became harder. Occured to me later that all data conversions will add distortions and require clocking, both of which has been managed well in my streamer and did not need further messing about with. Hindsight is always better. Returned it for a refund.

 

Pretty depressing, all my efforts to push my hifi to the next level failed. Then I recalled what another ASer said about the Townshend Podiums. Lots of information on the internet describing the theory and from an engineering point of view, it looked like a solid idea except for the high price - especially for my Wilson Watt Puppies which are pretty heavy at 77kgs each. 

 

Nevertheless, I purchased he latest version from Max Townshend and in some ways I received good results, but mostly it was again negative. What a downer - the anti-vibration and isolation theory was sound but practically it didn’t play out. Mids too forward and harder. It was supposed to provide immediate improvements - and without any breaking in time! 😄

 

What else could it be that was causing this streak of bad sound upgrades?

 

Then Jord from Pink Faun reached out and said he wanted me to try his new USB cable. Sometime back I had decided to get better AC cables for my streamer so I asked for both their Ultra AC Powercord and the Ultra USB cable to try. They are both made of his non-inductive, tinned copper wiring which he had already used throughout my 2.16x streamer. The power cord also used the top Furutech NCF heads which I understood to be pretty special.

 

Pretty expensive for both but after some discussion, I placed a large deposit for them and they were on the way!

 

Around a year or two ago, prior to my Pink Faun 2.16x streamer, I had borrowed a friend’s Duelund Audio XLR cables and purchased some of their bare speaker cables to good effect but ultimately they didn’t beat my existing Harmonic Technology Magic Link II interconnects and my Cardas Golden Reference speaker cables. The former is a copper/silver cable and the latter a mix of copper, golden-ratio diameters wires.

 

But now with the streamer already containing tinned copper wiring and the two attached cables to the streamer (AC and USB) being made of the same tinned copper, I though it might be an idea to try a full loom of tinned copper to see what would happen. Would it help manage the harder sound of the Townshend Podiums?

 

So purchased a pair of Duelund wired XLRs with Furutech copper heads and brought out my old Duelund speaker cables again. These are pretty unusual cables - they don’t use shielding at all (apparently this affects its sound negatively) and are wrapped in oil soaked cotton baked until dry as the dielectric.

 

After burning in naturally and also along with my FryBaby2 burn in device over a course of 400 hours, I must say it’s the best thing I’ve done all year to date! The sound now is marvellous - well matched with ‘more correct’ sound coming from the speakers on the Podiums. It’s a huge natural sound field of music. I won’t try and describe it with the usual details of being dark, tighter, faster, leading edge etc (it’s all that) but just say it replicates the sound field of the “real thing”. When listening to a concert or live music in a small venue, one doesn’t think about details or size of the bass but let the music carry one away with the emotion of the moment. It’s like that now. I’m flabbergasted at the reality of the sound, how overwhelming it is. I’ve never heard my Wilson’s sound so good.

 

Jord did hint to me that once I let his tinned copper AC and USB cables burn in, I would be in for a surprise. But I didn’t expect it to be so large. Not all the replacement cables came from him, the XLR and speaker was from the local fellow selling Duelund Audio cables of similar materials. Nevertheless, it turns out that the hardness or lack of accurate completeness I was hearing before was from my old Harmonic Tech copper/silver interconnects and my Cardas GR copper cables.

 

What about my beloved Habst Ultra III USB cable I was using for the past 2 years which I championed earlier here on AS? That was the last cable to be swapped out. Until I hit the 250 burn hour mark on the Pink Faun Ultra USB, it couldn’t match the Habst and even now the PF is pretty much only on par with the Habst different by the thickness of sound. I’m not decided which is considered better but in my system, I feel the thickness adds to the reality. The Habst has same details, treble extensions, soundscape and texture but not quite as meaty as the PF Ultra USB cable. It’s truly amazing that pure 5N silver in the Habst can sound so similar to tinned copper in the PF in a completely different construction! I almost gave up on the PF during the burning process - it was truly horrible at the 100 hour mark and only slightly better at 150. It eventually took days attached to a laser printer in my office to burn it in. At the moment, I still switch between the two cables from time to time to compare the sound as I’m told the full burn in time for the PF is a lengthy 500-600 hours.

 

Tinned copper can be found very affordably (I paid locally in Thailand the equivalent of $23 per meter length) for the Duelund wires strands and quite a bit more for the Pink Faun Ultra versions - I’m told it takes 130m of wiring to make one Pink Faun Ultra power cord and with the Furutech NCF ceramic heads it’s a pretty steep price to pay.  But it did make a largest difference between all the cables I added - a sense of naturalness with huge amounts of information was heard after swapping out my older MIT Z-cord III. The burning in took around 400 hours and the sound changed substantially in that time. Best not to listen to it until the burn in process is complete. I tried a cheaper way out - using the Duelund 12GA tinned copper cable with their Thermalplas insulation (same tech as their top of the line capacitors) along with copper Furutech heads (non-NCF) burned for around 120 hours. Not in the same ball park - not at all. Big difference in everything. Back to burning in more before another comparison.

 

So in conclusion of this first part - I’d give a hearty recommendation to a tinned copper loom. It is not dull as some have said in passing - I’m hearing all the venue details that add to a natural experience and accurate portrayal of the venue size and surface materials but without any hardness or harshness at all - just like the real thing. Large scale orchestral works down to small scale jazz ensembles are all represented well. This matches so well with the Townshend Podiums. I suspect my system with all the tinned copper connections is now feeding my speakers with a more correct sounding signal and allowing my Wilsons on the podiums, theoretically more accurate, to perform more naturally as well. 

 

Ok, here’s the part of the story where I refer to some music - seems obligatory in review discussions so here it is: 😄

 

I have a particularly good recording of the ubiquitous Jazz at the Pawnshop by Naxos and at the beginning of the “High Life” track around the 25 seconds mark, I’m able to clearly hear an order and the bartender’s reply for bottled water. This is with the entire tinned copper loom so it shows that details are resolved just fine. For a bit of fun, can anyone say which brand of water it is? 😄

 

Ok, so far a long rambling story, but wait there’s more :

 

How about adding back the EtherRegen? If the system is playing more naturally surely a cleaner signal from the EtherRegen will help even more? 

 

Here’s some of my musing after reading John Swenson’s white paper on the EtherRegen (from memory as it was many months ago). John says basically it does 2 things - 1. Stop leakage currents from moving into the streamer from the LAN Ethernet cable and 2. cleans up accumulated distortions within each signal bit. John further suggests that this signal bit cleaning is essential for streamed data but can be replaced by a buffering and then playback of the music track whereby the data is used without further access to the network.

 

Logically a disconnected LAN cable from the streamer should offer the best isolation and least distortion added from the network. There has recently been much discussion about networks and incredible “condominium-level” construction efforts to clean up the network. I feel it’s important not to forget that the target absolute best sound from a network is a disconnected LAN cable. There’s not an infinite level of improvements to be had. If one finds that a connected LAN cable leads to a better sound than a disconnected one, then the network is adding distortion to compensate for existing distortions in the streamer and downstream. 

 

For the 1st EtherRegen advantage - Is it possible to hear distortions and leakage currents that might be passed into the streamer from the LAN cable? A simple test would be to disconnect the cable and compare. For me I cannot hear it. I tried playing a local file from Stylus then, while playing, unplugged the LAN cable from the streamer. The difference, if any, is very subtle in my system, far far less than my experiments with tinned copper above. Tried many times with many different genres of music. I cannot determine any difference in a sighted test, let alone a blind one. One might argue that my system or my hearing isn’t resolving enough to show the difference and that might be true but then that would make me the happiest audiophile where everything sounds good!! haha  

 

A reason could be that I brought the data into my music room via an Orbi Wifi system where ethernet data is transferred from the main router to the satellite unit in the HiFi room wirelessly on a dedicated high speed backbone signal. The ethernet signal is then regenerated fresh locally and passed to my streamer via SOtM cables. I found that the power supply to this satellite Orbi unit and the DC cable used is far more audible than trying to clean the signal after. 

 

For the 2nd EtherRegen advantage - I use Euphony/Stylus as my OS. It offers buffering of music files prior to playing. Therefore so long as I can buffer the song completely prior to playing, there shouldn’t be any network accumulated noise and bit cleaning to be done for any files played from the network. 

 

This is fine for local files within the streamer, or say NAS files on network transferred to streamer prior to playing. What about Tidal or Qobuz files from the internet? Half my music is from Tidal so this is important to me.

 

I have found something quite interesting with the way Euphony/Stylus buffers music in the queue. After only a few seconds of download, Euphony/Stylus buffers NOT ONLY a part of the Tidal track BUT the entire Tidal track played at the moment. AND ALSO the next entire track in the queue. I found this out after disconnecting the LAN cable from the network seconds after starting the first track. I’m aware that Euphony data movements has been discussed in detail previously and can be monitored it real-time within the app. What I didn’t notice or read about was that entire multiple tracks of Tidal could be queued and played without further network access. I didn’t previously know this was possible.

 

The following is possible, a few seconds after starting playback of the 1st track and  disconnecting the LAN cable :

 

  1st track, Local file - plays entire track offline

  2nd track, Local file - continues to play entire track offline

 

  1st track, Local file - plays entire track offline

  2nd track, Tidal file - continues to play entire track offline

 

  1st track, Tidal file - plays entire track offline

  2nd track, Local file - continues to play entire track offline

 

  1st track, Tidal file - plays entire track offline

  2nd track, Tidal file - continues to play entire track offline

 

As expected, all local files after the above 2nd track continues to play fine until the end of the queue, without network access.

 

If this is the case, then Euphony/Stylus playback for both local and Tidal files are fully buffered 2 tracks in advance and therefore immune to the 2nd type of distortion that John says occurs during network playback. At least after the first few seconds it takes to download the 2 tidal tracks in the queue and perhaps a few seconds at the beginning of each track thereafter as it buffers the next entire track.

 

Given the distortions that the EtherRegen sets out to manage both seems to be handled well in my system under Euphony/Stylus, it’s now clearer to me why I didn’t originally find the device beneficial while others did. Presumably the noise that was being passed into their streamers wasn’t being handled and/or they weren’t using the Euphony/Stylus player and it’s ability to fully buffer both local and Tidal files. 

 

So after a disappointing start to the year, I’m back on track and in a good spot sound wise. After a bit more wire settling down I have an acid test for my tinned copper loom coming up. A comparison with the Nordost Valhalla power cord and their Odin1 speaker cables. It’s absolutely a mad test pairing affordable Duelund speaker wires with the super expensive Odin but it will surely be fun to see how big a difference there can be for wires. But as for the Pink Faun Ultra power cord, it’s a better match to the Valhalla price wise and it’s already being used with comparable streamers to my Pink Faun 2.16x streamer by others. 😉

 

 

Will report on AS after.

 

Regards and best of health to all, Kin

 

[flkin]

44 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Thank you for sharing 🙂

Audirvana works similar with tracks from Qobuz which I get via Wi-Fi.

After pre-loading the tracks into RAM I turn Wi-Fi off.

BTW, do you now have a Taiko Extreme?

 

Matt

I don’t have access to Qobuz and cannot try it in Euphony. I wonder if it works the same way too?
 

Ah no, the picture of the Taiko Extreme isn’t mine. Someone sent it to me to show the PF cable on it. I’m perfectly happy with my 2.16x for the moment. 

[flkin]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

I can hear the exchange clearly, but I don’t recognize the brand. Not surprising, as I’m not an expert on bottled waters available in Sweden in 1976! 
 

Pray tell. 

 

2 hours ago, HeeBroG said:

 

I believe it's a well renowned one beginning with E.

Have another listen and it may be clearer now🤓

 

I think you both got it 😄

 

Yes, I think it starts with E. For others that want to play the game, I'll confirm it (that is if I heard it correctly) in a few days time.

 

 

[flkin]

1 hour ago, shahed99 said:

 

When I got to this part, my reaction was "no way!" lol. I'm also a recent owner of Townshend Podium. I bought them to placate my downstair neighbor mostly. It didn't help much in that regard. But the sound improvement was immediate and satisfying. These are the keepers.

 

Then I read the rest of your post. What do you know, I have used DIY Duelund tinner wire in the past as my previous speakers internal wiring! But have been using Western Electric tinned copper wire everywhere (IC + SC) for few years now. Duelund hook up took the concept from W.E. popularized by Jeff Day's blog. Anyway, those DIY WE wire replaced my $2.5k worth of interconnect and speaker cables and it was an improvement. Haven't tempted to try any other brands of analog cable since then.

Ah how interesting! I got there with the Townshend Podiums eventually after switching to tinned copper. It wasn’t an immediate step up for me but took some rearrangement of cables to get there. 
 

Right now I’m finding a naturalness and correctness to the sound that I haven’t heard before with the tinned copper loom. But one thing unusual I noticed is the daily variations of sound seems to be more than before. One day, it’s spot on sound and another day bass gets fatter or soundstage is smaller. I suppose it’s to do with breaking in as it’s happening less over time. 
 

You say you’ve switched over to $2.5k wires, is this still tinned copper?

[flkin]

2 hours ago, shahed99 said:

 

I replaced the $2.5k worth of interconnect and speaker cables with western electric ones. The previous ones weren't tinned copper. Also, I think the duelund hook up wire takes a while to break-in.

Ah ok, I misread your note. Yes I’m also finding that breaking in the tinned copper wires is taking a long time with constant changes to the sound during the process.  Pretty irritating actually. 

 

40 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

I use the x4 Townshend Pods under my speakers and subs.

Perhaps not as stable as the platform but much cheaper.

I don't have young kids/pets to worry about so it's not really an issue.

I have a timber floor on concrete.

My REL subs used to vibrate on it's feet at loud volumes as timber floors are never completely flat.

I tried the spikes but it was still no good.

I contacted REL who suggested Blue Tack but this is much better.

I just used a spirit level app on my iPhone to adjust the position. 

 

G

 

Individual pods might be a good alternative to the Podium as it’s really tough to set up. I needed 3 persons to get my Wilson’s on the Podiums and during setting up the Watt part fell on me and injured me a little. 
 

I also experimented and found that the Wilsons sounded better with full feet on spikes sitting on a brass coin. End effect for the speaker is that it is an inch or so higher than before. But to get a spiked Wilson onto the Podiums is no small task. 

[flkin]

On 6/30/2020 at 9:41 PM, flkin said:

 

I have a particularly good recording of the ubiquitous Jazz at the Pawnshop by Naxos and at the beginning of the “High Life” track around the 25 seconds mark, I’m able to clearly hear an order and the bartender’s reply for bottled water. This is with the entire tinned copper loom so it shows that details are resolved just fine. For a bit of fun, can anyone say which brand of water it is? 😄

 

For the question I asked a few days ago above, I believe the drink in the track is “Evian”. I hear it being ordered, bartender confirming it and then once more perhaps by the customer. 😄

[flkin]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I don't use Tidal anymore, but I suspect the same applies.

I wrote a few days earlier that buffering occurs in Tidal under Euphony/Stylus and gave my experiments. Unsure for Roon as I don’t use it anymore. 
 

Glad to hear it’s true for Qobuz as well. 

[flkin]

On 8/5/2020 at 3:31 AM, Exocer said:

 

Would the buffer queuing available in Stylus render all network tweaks moot if one only streams from services like Tidal/Quboz?

 

On 8/5/2020 at 4:20 AM, austinpop said:

 

Sadly, no. I wish that were the case.

 

As many have observed, and certainly in my own experience, there appears to be some SQ cost to merely the presence of a network connection, even when playing local content. So the upstream quality and mods still matter. However, that said, the ability to buffer network streams does raise their SQ.

 

I'm a little more fortunate, network tweaks in my system doesn't seem to make a difference.

 

Both Tidal and Quobuz buffers 2 songs entirely in Stylus when playing (without HQP that is) and so you can see if the physical LAN connection is passing noise into the streamer simply by disconnecting the cable whilst playing - the track will continue to play for the current and next song both streaming or local. I am unable to hear any difference with and without the LAN cable connected.

 

I think that this is a mandatory test before entering the deep network enhancement rabbit hole - at the very least, if you hear a difference, you know what sound correction to aim for.

[flkin]

8 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

.. whatever good or bad things your network does is already embedded in the buffered track somehow. Don't ask me how or why... I wish I could explain all that, but I can't. 

Sorry to tell you that, but I don't agree with your simple theory. I wish it was that simple, but it's a lot more complex than that...

 

Actually this is not my theory, the concept is in John Swenson’s White Paper on how the EtherRegen works. A complete buffering of the music track should solve the accumulated noise problem but doesn’t solve leakage current issues from a connected lan cable. 
 

If your switch is somehow correcting the ‘dirty bits’ that would be surprising! But stranger things have happened in audio 😄

[flkin]

7 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

I used to have a dual pc set up and the music files were stored on an ssd on the server pc , the music files are buffered in ram before being sent through the network to the pc player .

 

Do you have a way to buffer the data on the pc player side? Otherwise the data has to pass through the network again defeating buffering.