SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!

[bnbayer]

As an FYI aside - A lot (if not most) of newer SACD MCh recordings are actually 3-channel stereo as well. They generate a standard 6-channel SACD master so as not to cause issues in manufacturing, but the producers put no information in the rear or sub channels. (This is true of classical producers and labels - I don't know about other genres.) 

 

You're supposed to have 3 equal front speakers for this, not a surround sound centre. I've heard that setup in an editing studio and it was brilliant. Never had that setup at home, though.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

You're converting to PCM, so enter at your own risk.  Me, I play 3.0 DSD on JRiver all the time.  I have mopst of the Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence stuff ripped to DSF and all is well.

Ted - yes, there are lengthy debates about this on sonics, but there is no actual risk.  I would play in pure DSD if I could, and my DAC has the ability to do so.  That, at its best, can sound a bit purer and more transparent, I know from comparisons of native DSD hi rez recordings.  I don't honestly hear much difference on music from analog masters.

 

But, for me, DSD playback means no Mch speaker distance correction, no bass management and no Dirac Live EQ.  Sonically on balance, I am much more satisfied with converting my DSF library on the fly to PCM176 in JRiver in order to use those features.  It still sounds quite satisfyingly awesome to me.  I have not wanted to pursue DSP features in DSD via HQPlayer for a number of reasons.

 

I also see no point in pre-converting DSF files to PCM, which would add a cumbersome extra step to my library ripping process, although FLAC files would be somewhat smaller than DSFs.

[soares]

Hi guys,

I've got a Pionneer BDP 80FD and a Mac and I am ready to start ripping my SACD's.

Are you aware of a ripping guide for Macs within this 93 pages?

I found one for PC's, but unfortunately after a couple of hours reading the posts, I haven't found it yet. It's huge...

Could someone help me, please?

Thank you,

 

Jorge  

[Kal Rubinson]

3 hours ago, bnbayer said:

As an FYI aside - A lot (if not most) of newer SACD MCh recordings are actually 3-channel stereo as well. They generate a standard 6-channel SACD master so as not to cause issues in manufacturing, but the producers put no information in the rear or sub channels. (This is true of classical producers and labels - I don't know about other genres.) 

This is a surprise to me.  Can you provide links to some samples?  

[ted_b]

4 hours ago, bnbayer said:

As an FYI aside - A lot (if not most) of newer SACD MCh recordings are actually 3-channel stereo as well. They generate a standard 6-channel SACD master so as not to cause issues in manufacturing, but the producers put no information in the rear or sub channels. (This is true of classical producers and labels - I don't know about other genres.) 

 

You're supposed to have 3 equal front speakers for this, not a surround sound centre. I've heard that setup in an editing studio and it was brilliant. Never had that setup at home, though.

This is news to me, too.  I'm in the industry, and we do mostly classical at Channel...but even knowing Soundmirror and others (and all our NativeDSD labels), this is not what I know, especially the "if not most".  Please give examples.

[tmtomh]

4 hours ago, soares said:

Hi guys,

I've got a Pionneer BDP 80FD and a Mac and I am ready to start ripping my SACD's.

Are you aware of a ripping guide for Macs within this 93 pages?

I found one for PC's, but unfortunately after a couple of hours reading the posts, I haven't found it yet. It's huge...

Could someone help me, please?

Thank you,

 

Jorge  

 

Here are Mac instructions I wrote much earlier in the thread.

 

Please note that all the BS about having to install Java and/or having to disable System Integrity Protection on the Mac might not apply to you - I just included that in case.

 

Also, you have to download a Pioneer-specific version of the script (I believe it's labeled for the Pioneer BDP 160 but it will work with the 160, 170 and the 80FD).

 

 

[bnbayer]

2 hours ago, ted_b said:

This is news to me, too.  I'm in the industry, and we do mostly classical at Channel...but even knowing Soundmirror and others (and all our NativeDSD labels), this is not what I know, especially the "if not most".

I'm sure I was over-stating the case with 'if not most'. Certainly I'm aware that Channel has been a great supporter of both real multi-channel and real DSD recording - a number of labels were issuing SACDs as the only way (15 or so years ago) to get higher-than-rebook recordings to the public, but were actually recording in PCM, whether because they preferred the sound or preferred the editing software.

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, bnbayer said:

I'm sure I was over-stating the case with 'if not most'. 

Understood but I'd still like to see some examples.

[soares]

On 7/21/2017 at 5:55 PM, tmtomh said:

 

Here are Mac instructions I wrote much earlier in the thread.

 

Please note that all the BS about having to install Java and/or having to disable System Integrity Protection on the Mac might not apply to you - I just included that in case.

 

Also, you have to download a Pioneer-specific version of the script (I believe it's labeled for the Pioneer BDP 160 but it will work with the 160, 170 and the 80FD).

 

 

Thank you so much Tmtomh.

 

I truly appreciated your help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jorge 

[Hep]

Hi, I have just bought the Oppo UDP-205 that uses the Mediatek 8581 platform.  Does anybody know if the ripping process can be used on said machine. I have a huge collection of SACD  and would very much like your advice on how to convert them to Iso SACD. 

 

I thank you very much for this wonderful thread

Best regards

Henry 

[rwwjr44]

43 minutes ago, Hep said:

Hi, I have just bought the Oppo UDP-205 that uses the Mediatek 8581 platform.  Does anybody know if the ripping process can be used on said machine. I have a huge collection of SACD  and would very much like your advice on how to convert them to Iso SACD. 

 

I thank you very much for this wonderful thread

Best regards

Henry 

No, but I would try it anyway.

 

[greynolds]

55 minutes ago, Hep said:

Hi, I have just bought the Oppo UDP-205 that uses the Mediatek 8581 platform.  Does anybody know if the ripping process can be used on said machine. I have a huge collection of SACD  and would very much like your advice on how to convert them to Iso SACD. 

 

I thank you very much for this wonderful thread

Best regards

Henry 

No, it has to be a 10x series Oppo or one of the other supported players from the other companies.  The Oppo 20x series players won't work for this at this time.

[Hep]

Hi and thanks for the replies. 

Based on your experience so far, what machine would you recommend for the fastest hassle free extraction? 

 Are they all more or les the same in terms of difficulty and quality?

 

 Thank  you very much

 

  Henry

[Fitzcaraldo215]

2 minutes ago, Hep said:

Hi and thanks for the replies. 

Based on your experience so far, what machine would you recommend for the fastest hassle free extraction? 

 Are they all more or les the same in terms of difficulty and quality?

 

 Thank  you very much

 

  Henry

Judging from this thread, the now discontinued Oppo 103/105 are easiest.  The Pioneers work, but they seem to give people more trouble.  But, the real problem may be locating a compatible machine.

 

I use an Oppo 103, and I had no trouble. I just connected it to my network router and loaded the thumb drive containing the "hack" as described in this thread.  But, I was already a user of Sonore ISO2DSD, the PC software used to control rips to ISO and extracts to DSF.

 

 

[CatManDo]

I don't know if Pioneers give more trouble. Maybe some Pioneer users posting in this thread had problems that were not related to the player (with the files on the USB stick, or network issues).

 

I have ripped more than 1000 SACDs with a Pioneer 170 and it was extremely smooth and problem-free. Just one scratched disc that couldn't be ripped (neither on the Oppo 103), and two discs that took much longer than average.

 

The advantage of the Oppo is that it's generally a great player for audio and video (if you don't need 4K), whereas the Pioneer is really only good for SACD ripping, if you are used to Oppo standards in reliability, ease of use and build quality.

[frfrtx]

I have been looking at the options on Sonore ISO2DSD, and it has many additional Output Modes besides SONY DSF.   One of the Output Modes is Raw ISO.  Is there a workflow process that can convert .dsf files back into an SACD ISO?  I have tried a few different options but usually get the message "Not a ScarletBook disc!" and "Can't read Master TOC."

 

I have discovered that if a burn an SACD ISO to a DVD+R it plays just like the original SACD on my OPPO BDP-83.  Since the BDP-83 has gotten old and doesn't always open the disc drawer, I am very cautious about putting original SACD's into it.

 

Thanks for any advice in this area on how to possibly create an SACD ISO from dsf files with Sonore ISO2DSD.

[awesome]

Interesting topic, just found this this evening! I've got an Oppo player so will try this tomorrow. 

So once I've got an ISO file from the SACD; how do I get to FLAC?

I know DSD is better, but I need room correction, so I need to go the FLAC route.

[bnbayer]

Sooner ISO2DSD will get individual DSF files for each track. If you're on a Mac, XLD will transcode the DSD files to FLAC.

[Phthalocyanine]

@frfrtx

In order to create a SACD-R from ripped .dsf files you would need, in effect, a SACD authoring program.

Such a program exists somewhere for professional use, but I have never seen it available generally.

Sony actually created a simple format for a "DSD disc" by which you can author it with .dsf files.

The problem is that DSD discs are only read by the PS3 and a few other Sony players the SCD-XA5400ES  and  the SCD-XE800.

I made one for kicks and played it on my PS3 but the format is otherwise pretty useless.

This is why everyone recommends ripping to .iso and saving that before extracting .dsf files.

You'll have to go back and rip the .isos on those SACD discs if you only have the .dsf files.

 

[frfrtx]

1 hour ago, Phthalocyanine said:

@frfrtx

In order to create a SACD-R from ripped .dsf files you would need, in effect, a SACD authoring program.

Such a program exists somewhere for professional use, but I have never seen it available generally.

Sony actually created a simple format for a "DSD disc" by which you can author it with .dsf files.

The problem is that DSD discs are only read by the PS3 and a few other Sony players the SCD-XA5400ES  and  the SCD-XE800.

I made one for kicks and played it on my PS3 but the format is otherwise pretty useless.

This is why everyone recommends ripping to .iso and saving that before extracting .dsf files.

You'll have to go back and rip the .isos on those SACD discs if you only have the .dsf files.

 

Thanks, your answer is what I suspected for making an SACD playable disc, although I did not know about the PS3 option.

 

 Another option that I have learned about for playing the .dsf files directly is to buy a new OPPO player and put the .dsf files on a usb drive.  I have not tried it because I don't own a new OPPO, but OPPO support told me that both multi-channel and stereo ,dsf files can be played.

[riskylogic]

14 minutes ago, frfrtx said:

Thanks, your answer is what I suspected for making an SACD playable disc, although I did not know about the PS3 option.

 

 Another option that I have learned about for playing the .dsf files directly is to buy a new OPPO player and put the .dsf files on a usb drive.  I have not tried it because I don't own a new OPPO, but OPPO support told me that both multi-channel and stereo ,dsf files can be played.

 

You can play dsf files from NAS too.  In fact, that 's the whole point as far as I'm concerned.

[ted_b]

Riskylogic, are there presets or apps for things like Synology, or does one still have to do setup via SMB shares?

[jamesg11]

10 hours ago, frfrtx said:

I have been looking at the options on Sonore ISO2DSD, and it has many additional Output Modes besides SONY DSF.   One of the Output Modes is Raw ISO.  Is there a workflow process that can convert .dsf files back into an SACD ISO?  I have tried a few different options but usually get the message "Not a ScarletBook disc!" and "Can't read Master TOC."

 

I have discovered that if a burn an SACD ISO to a DVD+R it plays just like the original SACD on my OPPO BDP-83.  Since the BDP-83 has gotten old and doesn't always open the disc drawer, I am very cautious about putting original SACD's into it.

 

Thanks for any advice in this area on how to possibly create an SACD ISO from dsf files with Sonore ISO2DSD.

Note that such burnt sacd isos won't play on current & 103/105 Oppos. My old CA 650BD will play them, but not later CAs. There's a list somewheres ...

[riskylogic]

4 hours ago, ted_b said:

Riskylogic, are there presets or apps for things like Synology, or does one still have to do setup via SMB shares?

 

The newer Oppos play flacs and dsfs from a DLNA server

[awesome]

7 hours ago, bnbayer said:

Sooner ISO2DSD will get individual DSF files for each track. If you're on a Mac, XLD will transcode the DSD files to FLAC.

I'm on Windows 10, and will store all files on a NAS.