We don't need no stinking hi-rez

[The Computer Audiophile]

Please stop the off-topic chatter.

+1

[Sal1950]

What performance? It looks to be a Harley Davidson.

NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle Champions for how many years now? VRods ate the Rice Burners for lunch. LOL

[Blake]

Unfortunately, there is no parallel circumstance in audio forcing consumers to go hi-def. First of all, most people don't care about quality audio reproduction, and other than an iPod - like device or a smart phone, most people, these days, don't even have a stereo system in their homes. Music is an after-thought in most people's lives, though kids remain heavily influenced by it. But like we said, they listen using earbuds and, for the most part, and don't even recognize the difference between 32 kbps MP3 and non-compressed Red-Book quality, much less 24/192! Partly that's true because the earbuds to which they listen wouldn't resolve the differences between those formats anyway, and partly because of apathy. The average teen can hear what he/she wants to hear on lousy earbuds, just as my generation could hear what they required from their music on a cheap, 6-transistor AM radio tuned to the local "top-40" outlet. The vast majority of people of all ages can hear the difference between standard definition and hi-definition audio when it's pointed out to them, but most don't care enough about the sound of music to ever be convinced that going hi-def audio is worth the expense or the trouble.

 

Agreed George.

 

I would like to see the recording studios rally around one hi-rez format. What we have now is a complete cluster * with too many formats, sample rates, etc. It creates massive confusion and frustration for those looking into higher end audio and alienates Joe Public. Look at all the trouble we've had just getting Redbook downloads and streaming.

 

Joe decides to dip his toe into the nicer gear pool, does his research, is pretty much overwhelmed with all the file formats and sample rates, gives up and simply determines he needs DSD because that is the latest and greatest. He buys the DSD DAC then goes to find some popular music in DSD for download. He then discovers 99% of the music he listens to isn't even available in DSD and he blows a gasket.

[Allan F]

I would like to see the recording studios rally around one hi-rez format. What we have now is a complete cluster * with too many formats, sample rates, etc. It creates massive confusion and frustration for those looking into higher end audio and alienates Joe Public. Look at all the trouble we've had just getting Redbook downloads and streaming.

OTOH, others prefer to have freedom of choice. And that includes record producers who may prefer to record in a particular format to achieve what they believe to be the highest sound quality sound, e.g. Barry Diament & 24/192 PCM, Cookie Marenco & DSD. No one is forcing anyone to buy multiple formats. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't care about sound quality and has as much interest in hi-res as he does for differential calculus.

[Blake]

OTOH, others prefer to have freedom of choice. And that includes record producers who may prefer to record in a particular format to achieve what they believe to be the highest sound quality sound, e.g. Barry Diament & 24/192 PCM, Cookie Marenco & DSD. No one is forcing anyone to buy multiple formats. For the most part, Joe Public doesn't care about sound quality and has as much interest in hi-res as he does for differential calculus.

 

I concur.

 

It doesn't bother me personally that we have choices, I just think rallying around one format would increase the odds of having greater market penetration but I know I am in the extreme minority in this view. Probably 95% of the music I listen to is only available in redbook so that probably has a large influence on my views.

[esldude]

Agreed George.

 

I would like to see the recording studios rally around one hi-rez format. What we have now is a complete cluster * with too many formats, sample rates, etc. It creates massive confusion and frustration for those looking into higher end audio and alienates Joe Public. Look at all the trouble we've had just getting Redbook downloads and streaming.

 

Joe decides to dip his toe into the nicer gear pool, does his research, is pretty much overwhelmed with all the file formats and sample rates, gives up and simply determines he needs DSD because that is the latest and greatest. He buys the DSD DAC then goes to find some popular music in DSD for download. He then discovers 99% of the music he listens to isn't even available in DSD and he blows a gasket.

 

+5 million on this idea.

 

The fragmentation appears to be gathering momentum too. Multiple rates of DSD, PCM up to whatever rate (just plan on doubling it by next year), DXD (which is like 352 or 384 at 32 bit) and now MQA. Digital makes such things possible and even available on lots of gear. But to the guy stepping up from high rate MP3 and basic CD it becomes a disorienting fog immediately. I am sure plenty of lurkers read posts by people making that first step, have their eyes glaze over, and never make that step for themselves.

[gmgraves]

My bro bought the fuel by 4 drums at a time for his pro dragrace snow sled which he sold and we've had it for a while. That's why he let me use all I want. May have to roll back my tuning when it runs out. Nothing makes horsepower and lets the engines live like leaded. 100 years of leaded fuels and I don't see folks laying dead in the street. LOL

VP Racing Fuels for Circle Track

Sunoco Race Fuels | Race Fuel 101: Lead and Leaded Racing Fuels

 

 

It's called "Nanny Angst" and it refers the propensity of a certain type of person to be alarmed by everything and to try to protect us all from whatever it is that they are alarmed about. Unfortunately, society is not very good at separating real, pressing issues from trivial ones. It's good to be concerned about the environment. We humans simply got to a point where we could no longer afford to continue poisoning our own (and only) world. But like anything presided over by politicians, the environmental movement was propelled by the search for votes. Get a vociferous enough of a minority to yell loudly enough and the politicians (scrambling for votes) would enact laws outlawing the eating of beef because cows produce millions of cubic feet of methane (a greenhouse gas) every day!

 

Fortunately, in the case of lead, it is very poisonous, and getting society to stop using it in all products is really a good thing. It's not as bad as the hand-wringers say it is, but it wasn't a bad idea to remove it from gasoline, paint, and other products that we come in contact with on a daily basis. About Avgas and racing fuel, this is a case of blanket laws throwing the baby aways with the bathwater. There aren't that many internal combustion engine-powered prop planes in the country for lead in the gas to be a concern, nor are there enough race cars and racing motorcycles to worry about. So making an exception in those cases seems reasonable to me, but government isn't ever about being reasonable, so all uses of leaded fuel get banned.

 

But then, since I was old enough to use a soldering iron, I've been holding lengths of 60/40 solder in my teeth (as a "third hand") and breathing the solder fumes. I'm still healthy and have all my marbles. Nothing bad has happened to me. Did I mention that nothing bad has happened to me? You know, nothing bad has happened to me. Yessir, nothing bad has happened to me, my mind is as sound as it ever was, yessir, nothing bad has happened to me......

[mordante]

NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle Champions for how many years now? VRods ate the Rice Burners for lunch. LOL

 

Pro Stock Motorcycle, formerly known as Pro Stock Bike is a drag racing class that is the two-wheeled equivalent of Pro Stock. It has been a feature of NHRA drag racing since the 1980s when it was added to the professional class structure and has since spread around the globe. Their 1st Points Championship Season took place in the 1987 NHRA Season. The class has for years been dominated by inline-4 cylinder Suzuki based bikes but in recent years Harley-Davidson based V-twin machines have become more competitive due to favorable rule changes. Frames are purpose-built specifically for drag racing and are not based on their road-going counterparts.

 

One of the most successful Pro Stock Motorcycle drivers in NHRA history is six time champion Dave Schultz, who died from cancer in 2001. His son Brian, also a Pro Stock Motorcycle racer, died in a car accident in 2004. The first female driver in this category is Vicki Farr; the best known female face in this category is Angelle Sampey (Seeling), who set a national record 7.38 second elapsed time in 1996, during her rookie year.

 

John Myers was one of the most dominant and legendary riders in the sport. He amassed 33 NHRA event wins before his untimely death in 1998.[1]

 

The category was mostly dominated by Suzuki GS powered machines until the introduction of the Buell and the Harley-Davidson V-Rod. The V-Rod debuted in 2002 and the Buell debuted in 2003.

 

From 2004 to 2012 the Vance and Hines V-Rod was arguably the most dominant motorcycle in the class. Andrew Hines won three championships and Ed Krawiec won two utilizing the V-Rod. Suzuki and Buell team owner George Bryce, was an outspoken critic of the V-Rod's set of rules.[2]

 

In 2013 the NHRA made a rule change to limit the V-Rods.

[JSWolf]

Please stop with the off-topic nonsense.

[Paul R]

Please stop with the off-topic nonsense.

 

What do you see as the topic exactly? We don't need no stinking hi-rez is not exactly a serious topic title. Besides, always interested in fast bikes.

[Blake]

@Paul:

 

You are confused about the topic of this thread? I suppose I could have used a more serious title, such as "Why the heck is it....."

[sdolezalek]

+5 million on this idea.

 

The fragmentation appears to be gathering momentum too. Multiple rates of DSD, PCM up to whatever rate (just plan on doubling it by next year), DXD (which is like 352 or 384 at 32 bit) and now MQA. Digital makes such things possible and even available on lots of gear. But to the guy stepping up from high rate MP3 and basic CD it becomes a disorienting fog immediately. I am sure plenty of lurkers read posts by people making that first step, have their eyes glaze over, and never make that step for themselves.

 

History would suggest that sellers will stop offering variety as soon as we stop buying it. Today, part of the fragmentation is driven by DAC capabilities ("why buy something my DAC doesn't play" AND "why not buy the highest res my DAC does play"). Second, it will be interesting whether software like HQPlayer causes us to find an audio sweet spot that upsamples everything to, say DSD256, but doesn't hear enough difference between good 24/96 and DXD or DSD128 and DSD256 to warrant buying the higher res original.

 

Basically stores will only offer what customers buy enough of to keep offering it. Right now, we seem to be buying a little bit of everything.

[orgel]

The fragmentation appears to be gathering momentum too. Multiple rates of DSD, PCM up to whatever rate (just plan on doubling it by next year), DXD (which is like 352 or 384 at 32 bit) and now MQA. Digital makes such things possible and even available on lots of gear. But to the guy stepping up from high rate MP3 and basic CD it becomes a disorienting fog immediately. I am sure plenty of lurkers read posts by people making that first step, have their eyes glaze over, and never make that step for themselves.

 

I recognize that "format fragmentation" requires anyone who wants to dip a toe in the high-res waters to first climb a bit of a learning curve, but I look at this from a slightly different perspective: As long as my playback system can handle whatever I throw at it with a minimum of fuss, I don't worry overmuch about having a mix of DSD and PCM at different sample rates and bit depths.

 

So, for example, if you have a DAC that only takes PCM up to 24/96 and you add Audirvana Plus (which I consider relatively inexpensive and pretty user friendly) to the mix, then once you're set up in A+, you can play back pretty much any PCM or DSD file you encounter. Roon is at least as user friendly, but I suspect the price would be off-putting to most newcomers.

 

Now if you have a DSD-only DAC … well, you're well down the rabbit hole and all of this is irrelevant.

 

--David

[Paul R]

@Paul:

 

You are confused about the topic of this thread? I suppose I could have used a more serious title, such as "Why the heck is it....."

 

I suppose if you wanted to police the topic, you would insert meaningful commentary to guide the conversation when you feel it is veering too far off the track. Or not.

 

But, for example, if you did you could bring up subjects similar to these; how MQA will or will not affect Hires music, or how the Chesky Binaural releases are more/less wonderful/awful, etc.

 

Complaining without guided action is not very useful, even less so when you name a topic intentionally to be lighthearted and fun.

 

-Paul

 

(You did seem to want a 100% serious answer.)

[Blake]

Paul, please read my quoted post again and then look at your comments. You need to read with more care.

[Paul R]

Paul, please read my quoted post again and then look at your comments. You need to read with more care.

 

Oh, sorry. I was trying to sort of make up for not being serious, because I know people are aggravated at the topic drift.

 

(grin) To be honest, I wasn't sure exactly what you meant... My brain is trying to escape out my left ear right now, pulling a Maynard G. Krebs and yelling "Woik!Woik!"...

 

-Paul

[Blake]

It's all good.

[JSWolf]

Look at post 851. The site founder agrees with me to stop the off-topic rubbish. So please stop.

[Sal1950]

Oh, sorry. I was trying to sort of make up for not being serious, because I know people are aggravated at the topic drift.

 

(grin) To be honest, I wasn't sure exactly what you meant... My brain is trying to escape out my left ear right now, pulling a Maynard G. Krebs and yelling "Woik!Woik!"...

 

-Paul

 

Stop chewing on your lead pencils.

[4est]

Why should I or anyone interested in state of the art playback have to be concerned with a newcomer's ineptness? For most people mp3 is fine, and 16/44.1k rules, but there are others that wish to push boundaries. We use the rates that are available if for no other reason than the opportunity to use better filtering such as HQPlayer's . What you consider fragmenting, I consider progress!

+5 million on this idea.

 

The fragmentation appears to be gathering momentum too. Multiple rates of DSD, PCM up to whatever rate (just plan on doubling it by next year), DXD (which is like 352 or 384 at 32 bit) and now MQA. Digital makes such things possible and even available on lots of gear. But to the guy stepping up from high rate MP3 and basic CD it becomes a disorienting fog immediately. I am sure plenty of lurkers read posts by people making that first step, have their eyes glaze over, and never make that step for themselves.

[Sal1950]

Why should I or anyone interested in state of the art playback have to be concerned with a newcomer's ineptness? For most people mp3 is fine, and 16/44.1k rules, but there are others that wish to push boundaries. We use the rates that are available if for no other reason than the opportunity to use better filtering such as HQPlayer's . What you consider fragmenting, I consider progress!

 

Mostly snake oil pushed by and for the profiteers. JMHO

[PopPop]

Everything has it's place in the market. Snakes should never be condemned to a life of being squeaky and hard to bend.

[DaliFan6]

Mass market does not go out and spend lots on Hi Fi, most listen to music on way to and from work, fitting in a work life/balance. You need to really be interested in Hi Fi to A. Get into it and B. Part with ones hard earned pennies. Before I got into Hi Fi separates I had an all in one Pioneer system...loved it at the time...but when I heard a system made up of well matched separates...myself Pioneer started to look somewhat shabby. And the journey began.

 

If you do spend a lot on good separates...then why would you throttle it with MP3??? Does not make any sense to me! It's like anything though....a badly recorded album at source will sound bad on Vinyl, CD, Stream.....I'd probably go as far to say that a well recorded album cut to MP3 would beat a badly recorded album cut to 24 bit/DSD or otherwise.

 

I purchased the recently remastered Roger Waters - Amused to Death album at 24/192...and it sounds just silly good.....they did a great job with that remaster....there is no way on a good system an MP3 copy is going to sound as rich and rewarding....

 

If you have a good system...don't kill it with an MP3 file.....if you are happy with MP3...you don't need a good Hi Fi!

[PopPop]

I used to believe very much the way you do. I still believe that 24bit music has better SQ than MP3 but the actual discernible difference isn't any where near as broad as I once thought. Look for a recent thread on CA where you can download files of various resolutions for your own listening comparisons.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/showthread.php?t=26703

[DaliFan6]

Granted....a well recorded album cut to MP3 can still convey the emotional connection with the music. But why suffer any loss in quality if you don't have too? Even if that difference is small....personally a well recorded album and I'll use the remastered Roger Waters Amused to Death album as an example again....sounds sublime at 24/192 WAV.....I have the old master on CD...and the difference is night and day....I'll take a blind test on that any time!

 

I have friends that spend silly amounts on car parts to get just 3 more BHP.....but to them it's worth it.

 

I don't think DSD will take off, and therefore have not bothered to get a DAC that does DSD and doubt I will. To my ears, 24 bit is as good as it's going to get....but happy to be wrong on that!